From meades@gmail.com  Mon Jan  4 09:55:18 2010
From: meades@gmail.com (J Meades)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:55:18 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] Creating a Podcast
In-Reply-To: <003301ca8c71$19787c00$4c697400$@co.uk>
References: <003301ca8c71$19787c00$4c697400$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <e3ed8c5a1001040155i4e63b2f9kb2476fe03424b45b@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi everyone

If you want to achieve a presentation playable as a flash object in a web
browser, try iSpring Presenter. You can include audio very easily and, in my
experience good quality audio complared with some toher offerings. You can
download a free trial here http://www.ispringsolutions.com/.

I use this product to publish some of the e-learning modules I produce and
have always found it easy top use but as will all things it depends on your
preferences whether or not somehting is right for you.

BTW, I have no connection with iSpring other than I use it! :-)

Jeremy

Director of ICT Strategy & e-Learning
SchoolsICT Limited
e: jeremy.meades@schoolsict.net
w: http://schoolsict.net



2010/1/3 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>

>  I pounced upon the following with eager interest, but my own experiences
> were sadly confirmed:
>
>
>
>
> http://dajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/h808-core-activity-8-11-creating-a-podcast/
>
>
>
> And yet I see some very pleasing productions on SlideShare etc.  Without
> using expensive equipment is there any sure-fire way of producing Voice-over
> SlideShares or even simple podcasts which download and play without
> interrupts?  What are the secrets?  -  Or must I buy yet another book that
> fails to deliver?
>
>
>
> BW
>
>
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everyone<br><br>If you want to achieve a presentation playable as a flas=
h object in a web browser, try iSpring Presenter. You can include audio ver=
y easily and, in my experience good quality audio complared with some toher=
 offerings. You can download a free trial here <a href=3D"http://www.isprin=
gsolutions.com/">http://www.ispringsolutions.com/</a>.<br>
<br>I use this product to publish some of the e-learning modules I produce =
and have always found it easy top use but as will all things it depends on =
your preferences whether or not somehting is right for you.<br><br>BTW, I h=
ave no connection with iSpring other than I use it! :-)<br>
<br>Jeremy<br><br>Director of ICT Strategy &amp; e-Learning<br>SchoolsICT L=
imited<br>e: <a href=3D"mailto:jeremy.meades@schoolsict.net">jeremy.meades@=
schoolsict.net</a><br>w: <a href=3D"http://schoolsict.net">http://schoolsic=
t.net</a><br>
<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/3 Ray Tolley <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&=
gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px s=
olid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">









<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-GB">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I pounced upon the following with eager interest, bu=
t my own
experiences were sadly confirmed:</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://dajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/h80=
8-core-activity-8-11-creating-a-podcast/" target=3D"_blank">http://dajan.wo=
rdpress.com/2010/01/02/h808-core-activity-8-11-creating-a-podcast/</a></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And yet I see some very pleasing productions on Slid=
eShare
etc.=A0 Without using expensive equipment is there any sure-fire way of
producing Voice-over SlideShares or even simple podcasts which download and
play without interrupts?=A0 What are the secrets?=A0 -=A0 Or must I
buy yet another book that fails to deliver?</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BW</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Ray Tolley=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:=A0 </span><a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue;">http://raytolley.=
v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">B:=A0 </span><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" targe=
t=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue;">http://www.efoli=
ointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125);"><br>

W:=A0 </span><a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue;">http://www.maximi=
se-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of th=
e IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;</span><span style=3D"color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

</div>


</blockquote></div><br>

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From dughall.mccormick@kirklees.gov.uk  Tue Jan  5 08:39:48 2010
From: dughall.mccormick@kirklees.gov.uk (Dughall McCormick)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 08:39:48 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Evening events at BETT 2010
Message-ID: <4B42FAD2020000180009FFA7@kirklees.gov.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

Apologies for cross posting.

I am sure many of you will be looking forward to the forthcoming BETT
Show at Olympia next week.

If you are lucky enough to be going and haven’t already made plans for
your evening(s), I’d like to draw your attention to some events that
might prove a welcome and invigorating contrast to the hurly-burly of
the exhibition floor.

On Wednesday 13th Jan at 6pm there will be a free TEDx event with a
stimulating line-up of inspirational speakers from diverse backgrounds.
TEDxOrenda at BETT is an individually organised TED event that
epitomises the tradition of TED as a vehicle for ‘Ideas Worth
Spreading’. 
More details of the TEDxOrenda event can be found here:
http://www.think-bank.com/tedx/ 
The event is FREE and tickets are available from here:
http://tedxorenda.eventbrite.com/

On Thursday 14th Jan there will be a free AmplifiED event, again from
6pm. AmplifiED follows a Barcamp, unconference model and is essentially
a participatory event that involves table discussion around topics and
themes. In this case, the topics for discussion will be education-based
and possibly provoked by the BETT show itself.
More details of the AmplifiED event can be found here:
http://www.whiteboardblog.co.uk/2010/01/amplified-2010-bett/ 
The event is FREE and tickets are available from here:
http://amplified10.eventbrite.com/

On Friday 15th at 6pm a Teachmeet will take place. For those unfamiliar
with the Teachmeet format, it is an event that consists of short (2min
or 7 min) presentations given by practitioners. These presentations are
about great ideas and what works well in the classroom.
More details of the Teachmeet event can be found here:
http://teachmeet.pbworks.com/TeachMeet-BETT-2010-Friday-Session
The event is FREE and although there are no formal ticketing
arrangements, you are encouraged to sign up to the wiki (above).

If you are going to be at BETT, do consider spending an evening or
two/three at the above event(s). Whether you can attend any, some or
all, I am sure it will add considerable value to your visit. 

If you are not planning on going to BETT or if you can’t make it to any
of the evening events, keep an eye on the links above for archives,
livestreams, twitcams, flashmeetings, etc.

 Wishing you a happy new year and hoping I might see some of you there.

Dughall McCormick


_______________________________

Dughall McCormick
e-learning Consultant
ITCAS
The Deighton Centre
Huddersfield
HD2 1JP

01484 225724

From NRutt@st-edmunds.eu  Mon Jan  4 09:51:31 2010
From: NRutt@st-edmunds.eu (NRutt)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:51:31 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] RE: [Secondary] Creating a Podcast
In-Reply-To: <003301ca8c71$19787c00$4c697400$@co.uk>
References: <003301ca8c71$19787c00$4c697400$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <5C6594948CE4C347A4B1F3371F48AF7E613CEAE1F2@STE-EXC-001.stedmunds.internal>

--_000_5C6594948CE4C347A4B1F3371F48AF7E613CEAE1F2STEEXC001sted_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It's the same issue as producing any 'professional' material, having deskto=
p publishing software doesn't instantly turn me into an advertising guru, l=
ikewise although I have the equipment to produce professional audio on my d=
esktop, it doesn't make me a record producer!

For a quick way to put words and captions to pictures try Microsoft Photo S=
tory 3 (free download). Even this though, requires time to be spent to get =
the most out of it, and on occasion I have had to pass the completed file i=
nto a video editor to title it properly.

The only way to get good streamed output is to use a streaming server, host=
ed on sensible bandwidth.

The views expressed in this post are my personal views and not those of the=
 school.
Nick

Nick Rutt
Network and Data Manager
St. Edmund's C.E. Girls School
Tel: (0)1722 328565
P   Please consider the Environment before printing this email
________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org=
] On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 03 January 2010 12:35
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] Creating a Podcast

I pounced upon the following with eager interest, but my own experiences we=
re sadly confirmed:

http://dajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/h808-core-activity-8-11-creating-a-po=
dcast/

And yet I see some very pleasing productions on SlideShare etc.  Without us=
ing expensive equipment is there any sure-fire way of producing Voice-over =
SlideShares or even simple podcasts which download and play without interru=
pts?  What are the secrets?  -  Or must I buy yet another book that fails t=
o deliver?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It&#8217;s the same issue as producing=
 any
&#8216;professional&#8217; material, having desktop publishing software doe=
sn&#8217;t
instantly turn me into an advertising guru, likewise although I have the
equipment to produce professional audio on my desktop, it doesn&#8217;t mak=
e me
a record producer!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For a quick way to put words and capti=
ons
to pictures try Microsoft Photo Story 3 (free download). Even this though,
requires time to be spent to get the most out of it, and on occasion I have=
 had
to pass the completed file into a video editor to title it properly.<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The only way to get good streamed outp=
ut
is to use a streaming server, hosted on sensible bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The views expressed in this post are m=
y
personal views and not those of the school.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 color=3Dnav=
y
 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'=
>Nick
 Rutt</span></font></st1:PersonName><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color=
:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Network and Data Manager</span></font><=
font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dgray face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>St. Edmund's <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st=
1:PlaceName
 w:st=3D"on">C.E.</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Girls</st1:Pla=
ceName> <st1:PlaceType
 w:st=3D"on">School</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font color=3D=
navy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dgray face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>Tel: (0)1722 328565</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D5 color=3Dgreen face=3DWebding=
s><span
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></font>=
</b></strong><strong><b><font
color=3Dblack face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black=
'> </span></font></b></strong><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D=
1
color=3Dblack face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-fa=
mily:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dgreen face=3D"Comic=
 Sans MS"><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:green'>Please co=
nsider
the Environment before printing this email</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:
"Times New Roman"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b><=
span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ray Tolley<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 03 January 2010 12:35<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> advisory@talk.naace.org;=
 <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">secondary@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Secondary] Creatin=
g a
Podcast</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DE=
N-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'>I
pounced upon the following with eager interest, but my own experiences were
sadly confirmed:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><a
href=3D"http://dajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/h808-core-activity-8-11-creat=
ing-a-podcast/">http://dajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/h808-core-activity-8-=
11-creating-a-podcast/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'>And
yet I see some very pleasing productions on SlideShare etc.&nbsp; Without u=
sing
expensive equipment is there any sure-fire way of producing Voice-over
SlideShares or even simple podcasts which download and play without
interrupts?&nbsp; What are the secrets?&nbsp; -&nbsp; Or must I buy yet ano=
ther
book that fails to deliver?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp;=
 </span></font><font
size=3D1 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font=
-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span></font><a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/=
"><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ht=
tp://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></font></a><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span>=
</font><a
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><font size=3D2 face=3DArial=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>http://www.efoliointheuk.blogs=
pot.com/</span></font></a><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
W:&nbsp; </span></font><a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.h=
tm"><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ht=
tp://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></font></a><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#c00000" face=3DArial><span style=3D'=
font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regio=
nal
Award 2009'</span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d"><span style=3D'color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_5C6594948CE4C347A4B1F3371F48AF7E613CEAE1F2STEEXC001sted_--

From crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 09:48:58 2010
From: crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk (Crispin Weston)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:48:58 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
Message-ID: <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data. 
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> Some thought for comment;
> 
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> 
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
> 
> Colin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Fergus
> 
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
> 
> "What is online reporting?
> 
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> 
> What do I have to do and when?
> 
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> 
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
> 
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> 
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
> 
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Hi, Fergus,
> 
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
> 
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
> 
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
> 
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
> 
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
> 
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> 
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> 
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the body
> text:
> 
> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
> 
> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the
> body text:
> 
> unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
> 
> or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> __
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
> System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ____________________________________________________________________
> __
> 
> Please consider your environmental responsibility:
> Before printing this e-mail or any other document, ask yourself
> whether you
> need a hard copy.
> 
> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely
> for the
> use of the individual or entity to whom
> it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient and you have
> received this e-mail in error
> then please accept our apologies. In such circumstances any use,
> dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this
> e-mail or its attachments in any form is strictly prohibited. Please
> contact
> the sender by return e-mail and then delete
> all the material from your system. Any views or opinions presented
> are
> solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent those of the Specialist Schools and Academies Trust.  This
> e-mail
> does not form part of a legally binding agreement.
> We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting
> software
> viruses, but we advise that you
> carry out your own virus checks on any attachments to this message.
> We
> cannot accept liability for any
> loss or damage caused by software viruses.
> ____________________________________________________________________
> __
> 
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
> System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ____________________________________________________________________
> __
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the
> body text:
> 
> unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
> 
> or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
> 
> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress


From meades@gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 10:33:07 2010
From: meades@gmail.com (J Meades)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:33:07 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <e3ed8c5a1001050233i1617007fq8b6779a287aa3e60@mail.gmail.com>

--0023545307fc257b92047c685da1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Crispin makes a very valid point. It is becoming increasingly obvious that
schools who adopt computerised information systems and then rest on their
laurels without 'investing' in the evolution of the physical processes that
feed tinto these sustems are missing the point and will, inevitably, be
unable to deliver what has been promised by the government.

As a result computerised information systems become isolated from the data
they are meant to store and make available for dissemination. As far as I
can tell there is very little by way of CPD for both leaderships and
teachers that supports the notion of data management in schools. Is this an
overlooked area? One that is just not demanded because it has not been
realised?

Jeremy Meades
NAACE Member, ITTE Member

Director of ICT Strategy & e-Learning
SchoolsICT Limited
e: jeremy.meades@schoolsict.net
w: http://schoolsict.net

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> > To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> > the body
> > text:
> >
> > unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
> >
> > or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> > To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> > the
> > body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
> >
> > or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
> > System.
> > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > __
> >
> > Please consider your environmental responsibility:
> > Before printing this e-mail or any other document, ask yourself
> > whether you
> > need a hard copy.
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely
> > for the
> > use of the individual or entity to whom
> > it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient and you have
> > received this e-mail in error
> > then please accept our apologies. In such circumstances any use,
> > dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this
> > e-mail or its attachments in any form is strictly prohibited. Please
> > contact
> > the sender by return e-mail and then delete
> > all the material from your system. Any views or opinions presented
> > are
> > solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> > represent those of the Specialist Schools and Academies Trust.  This
> > e-mail
> > does not form part of a legally binding agreement.
> > We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting
> > software
> > viruses, but we advise that you
> > carry out your own virus checks on any attachments to this message.
> > We
> > cannot accept liability for any
> > loss or damage caused by software viruses.
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > __
> >
> > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
> > System.
> > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > __
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> > To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> > the
> > body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
> >
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--0023545307fc257b92047c685da1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Crispin makes a very valid point. It is becoming increasingly obvious that =
schools who adopt computerised information systems and then rest on their l=
aurels without &#39;investing&#39; in the evolution of the physical process=
es that feed tinto these sustems are missing the point and will, inevitably=
, be unable to deliver what has been promised by the government.<br>
<br>As a result computerised information systems become isolated from the d=
ata they are meant to store and make available for dissemination. As far as=
 I can tell there is very little by way of CPD for both leaderships and tea=
chers that supports the notion of data management in schools. Is this an ov=
erlooked area? One that is just not demanded because it has not been realis=
ed?<br>
<br>Jeremy Meades<br>NAACE Member, ITTE Member<br><br>Director of ICT Strat=
egy &amp; e-Learning<br>SchoolsICT Limited<br>e: <a href=3D"mailto:jeremy.m=
eades@schoolsict.net">jeremy.meades@schoolsict.net</a><br>w: <a href=3D"htt=
p://schoolsict.net">http://schoolsict.net</a><br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alph=
alearning.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=
adding-left: 1ex;">
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<b=
r>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers&#39; purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There&#39;s a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">Crispin.<br>
</font><div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@=
talk.naace.org</a>] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Rep=
orting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and =A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<=
br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the &#39;expectations&#39; in this area, as currently delineated on=
 the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children&#39;s work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that &#39;real-time reporting&#39;, though clearly invalu=
able<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.park=
in@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co=
.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On<b=
r>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but &#39;reports&#39; are always abou=
t past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =A0I<br=
>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; &#39;interrogate&#39; leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. =A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; &#39;SmartAssess&#39;;<br>
&gt; 2. =A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-=
<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. =A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<=
br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: =A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<b=
r>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; &#39;sales pitch&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley =A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: =A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. =A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--0023545307fc257b92047c685da1--

From neil@beaconict.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 10:44:32 2010
From: neil@beaconict.co.uk (Neil Adam)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:44:32 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>

--0016e6d9a2c7f02d30047c6885e9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Crispin

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. That is the problem with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a
subjective element that "learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way,
but which are vital to modern life.

The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. At
the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.

So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes
after all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so
until the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial
intelligence is delivered.

I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.

Regards and happy new year to all

Neil

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> > To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> > the body
> > text:
> >
> > unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
> >
> > or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> > To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> > the
> > body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
> >
> > or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> >
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-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Crispin<br><br>All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are n=
ot &quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.=
 That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -=
 much of it has a subjective element that &quot;learning<br>

software (really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot autom=
atically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there&#39;s a =
whole range of &quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in =
that way, but which are vital to modern life.<br>
<br>The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload thro=
ugh automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what =
can be reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is c=
reating more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as i=
t becomes harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display yea=
r-on-year. That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam =
debate. At the moment people are (because the current system is more reduct=
ionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are=
 going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to t=
he next stage of education and into work actually more capable (as against =
&quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<br>
<br>So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software=
-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all=
? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the =
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is de=
livered.<br>
<br>I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learner=
s to learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasi=
ng a data-driven dream.<br><br>Regards and happy new year to all<br><br>
Neil<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <span dir=3D=
"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.wes=
ton@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.=
8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<b=
r>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers&#39; purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There&#39;s a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On B=
ehalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and =A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<=
br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the &#39;expectations&#39; in this area, as currently delineated on=
 the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children&#39;s work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that &#39;real-time reporting&#39;, though clearly invalu=
able<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.park=
in@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co=
.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On<b=
r>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but &#39;reports&#39; are always abou=
t past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =A0I<br=
>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; &#39;interrogate&#39; leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. =A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; &#39;SmartAssess&#39;;<br>
&gt; 2. =A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-=
<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. =A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<=
br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: =A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<b=
r>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; &#39;sales pitch&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley =A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: =A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. =A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org">Advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory</a><br>
&gt; To unsubscribe send a message to <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory-admin@talk=
.naace.org">Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> with<br>
&gt; the body<br>
&gt; text:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress<br>
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&gt; or: send a message to <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory-request@talk.naace.or=
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--0016e6d9a2c7f02d30047c6885e9--

From sen.ict@ntlworld.com  Tue Jan  5 11:18:57 2010
From: sen.ict@ntlworld.com (Alistair Goodwin)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:18:57 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <2AD0D2CA3F044538A418A7B23F18D28D@PC312912324322>

Hi Crispin

An extraordinarily good point and a useful analogy. Really powerful. I think 
the potential for us to miss what's really important as we work towards a 
future where software captures our abilities and reports to a central system 
is frightening though. I have to continuously question what the point in all 
this data really is. It makes pretty graphs, but I'm bored senseless of it 
all. It has nothing to do with my vision for the world.

If teachers are expected not just to make these judgements and act 
intuitively on them right now, but to formalise, justify and evidence them 
to the same degree as a supermarket stock database (and you are right, this 
is increasingly the expectation) then I seriously fear for my children's 
future. A school I visited recently provides a reward system for attendance 
(following an Ofsted which highlighted this as the only real issue) but none 
on the same scale for behaviour or achievement. That to me is evidence of 
something horribly wrong on a human scale (and the longer you consider its 
ramifications from an individual to national scale the more enormous it 
becomes) and again you are right, it's important almost purely because you 
can measure it and, infact, effectively almost barscan it. I could run at 
least a day's useful training based entirely on 'unpacking' this one 
example. It is indicative of the terrible sickness in our nation.

I would like my children to attend a school where they are recognised as 
individuals and where their actions and perspectives are shared and 
understood until all pupils in the school are able to understand where all 
the other pupils in the school are 'coming from'. I'd like them to grow in 
confidence and be increasingly engaging, happy and fun to be with. I'd like 
them to grow up in a  world where people are able to look for solutions to 
real problems and not just made up ones which computers can easily appear to 
solve... I'll stop blah blah blahing etc ... the graphs ? I seriously do not 
understand where they fit in,

Alistair Goodwin
Hampshire ICT Consultant

The views expressed in this email are RATHER ANNOYINGLY unlikely to be those 
of my employer. You work it out :-)

---
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Crispin Weston" <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: <Colin@revell.org.uk>; <advisory@talk.naace.org>; 
<secondary@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' 
> purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a 
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very 
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay 
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report 
> student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also 
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, 
> most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised 
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>>
>> Some thought for comment;
>>
>> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
>> parents
>> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
>> information about
>> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
>> reporting
>> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
>> Ed Balls
>> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>>
>> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
>> whom and
>> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
>> and I am
>> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
>> this
>> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Cc: Ray Tolley
>> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>> Schools
>>
>> Fergus
>>
>> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
>> journey
>> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
>> Becta
>> website.....?
>> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
>> offerings
>> measure up against these requirements?
>>
>> "What is online reporting?
>>
>> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
>> access
>> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
>> behaviour
>> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>>
>> What do I have to do and when?
>>
>> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
>> available
>> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>>     * Progress and attainment
>>     * Special needs
>> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>>
>> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
>> of the
>> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
>> aspirations.
>>
>> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
>> and
>> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>>
>> Tony
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Tony Parkin
>> Head of ICT Development
>> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
>> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
>> 21-24 Millbank
>> London SW1P 4QP
>>
>> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
>> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
>> Mob:+44 07739 436073
>> Skype: parkintony
>> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
>> --------------------------------------------
>> ________________________________________
>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
>> admin@talk.naace.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>> Schools
>>
>> Hi, Fergus,
>>
>> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
>> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
>> did a
>> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
>> were all
>> on holiday.
>>
>> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
>> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
>> reporting
>> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
>> next
>> week.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
>> this
>> issue:
>>
>> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
>> through
>> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
>> 'SmartAssess';
>> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
>> date,
>> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
>> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
>> a good
>> e-Portfolio system.
>>
>> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
>> firstly it
>> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>>
>> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
>> degree of
>> 'sales pitch'.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>>
>> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
>> ICT Education Consultant
>> Maximise ICT Ltd
>> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
>> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
>> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
>> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
>> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
>> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
>> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
>> -
>> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
>> appreciated.
>> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
>> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
>> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>>
>> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>>
>> Fergus Reynolds
>> _______________________________________________
>> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
>> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
>> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
>> the body
>> text:
>>
>> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
>>
>> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
>> with the body text:
>>
>> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
>> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
>> To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
>> the
>> body text:
>>
>> unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
>>
>> or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
>> with the body text:
>>
>> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
>> System.
>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
>>
>> Please consider your environmental responsibility:
>> Before printing this e-mail or any other document, ask yourself
>> whether you
>> need a hard copy.
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely
>> for the
>> use of the individual or entity to whom
>> it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient and you have
>> received this e-mail in error
>> then please accept our apologies. In such circumstances any use,
>> dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this
>> e-mail or its attachments in any form is strictly prohibited. Please
>> contact
>> the sender by return e-mail and then delete
>> all the material from your system. Any views or opinions presented
>> are
>> solely those of the author and do not necessarily
>> represent those of the Specialist Schools and Academies Trust.  This
>> e-mail
>> does not form part of a legally binding agreement.
>> We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting
>> software
>> viruses, but we advise that you
>> carry out your own virus checks on any attachments to this message.
>> We
>> cannot accept liability for any
>> loss or damage caused by software viruses.
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
>>
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>> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
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> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with the 
> body text:
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> 



From onside@blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 11:30:38 2010
From: onside@blueyonder.co.uk (Jeff Wickham)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:30:38 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <2AD0D2CA3F044538A418A7B23F18D28D@PC312912324322>
Message-ID: <3AC392C9C63941F49DFE2F6DE030DD14@user08ad8a2935>

Hi all

I couldn't agree more.
You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!

Regards

Jeff Wickham
Lotus Laser Education Consultant


07881 923542

Onside Consultants Ltd
www.onsideconsultants.co.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alistair Goodwin" <sen.ict@ntlworld.com>
To: "Crispin Weston" <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>; 
<Colin@revell.org.uk>; <advisory@talk.naace.org>; <secondary@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


> Hi Crispin
>
> An extraordinarily good point and a useful analogy. Really powerful. I 
> think
> the potential for us to miss what's really important as we work towards a
> future where software captures our abilities and reports to a central 
> system
> is frightening though. I have to continuously question what the point in 
> all
> this data really is. It makes pretty graphs, but I'm bored senseless of it
> all. It has nothing to do with my vision for the world.
>
> If teachers are expected not just to make these judgements and act
> intuitively on them right now, but to formalise, justify and evidence them
> to the same degree as a supermarket stock database (and you are right, 
> this
> is increasingly the expectation) then I seriously fear for my children's
> future. A school I visited recently provides a reward system for 
> attendance
> (following an Ofsted which highlighted this as the only real issue) but 
> none
> on the same scale for behaviour or achievement. That to me is evidence of
> something horribly wrong on a human scale (and the longer you consider its
> ramifications from an individual to national scale the more enormous it
> becomes) and again you are right, it's important almost purely because you
> can measure it and, infact, effectively almost barscan it. I could run at
> least a day's useful training based entirely on 'unpacking' this one
> example. It is indicative of the terrible sickness in our nation.
>
> I would like my children to attend a school where they are recognised as
> individuals and where their actions and perspectives are shared and
> understood until all pupils in the school are able to understand where all
> the other pupils in the school are 'coming from'. I'd like them to grow in
> confidence and be increasingly engaging, happy and fun to be with. I'd 
> like
> them to grow up in a  world where people are able to look for solutions to
> real problems and not just made up ones which computers can easily appear 
> to
> solve... I'll stop blah blah blahing etc ... the graphs ? I seriously do 
> not
> understand where they fit in,
>
> Alistair Goodwin
> Hampshire ICT Consultant
>
> The views expressed in this email are RATHER ANNOYINGLY unlikely to be 
> those
> of my employer. You work it out :-)
>
> ---
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Crispin Weston" <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
> To: <Colin@revell.org.uk>; <advisory@talk.naace.org>;
> <secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:48 AM
> Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
>
>> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
>> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
>> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
>> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
>> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers'
>> purchasing
>> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
>> sort
>> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
>> little
>> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
>> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
>> real-time data that schools have.
>> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
>> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
>> in
>> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
>> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report
>> student
>> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
>> of
>> course be able to make sense of that data.
>> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out,
>> most
>> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
>> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
>> by
>> the government.
>> Crispin.
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>>> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
>>> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
>>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>>>
>>> Some thought for comment;
>>>
>>> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
>>> parents
>>> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
>>> information about
>>> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
>>> reporting
>>> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
>>> Ed Balls
>>> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>>>
>>> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
>>> whom and
>>> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
>>> and I am
>>> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
>>> this
>>> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>>>
>>> Colin
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
>>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
>>> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
>>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>>> Cc: Ray Tolley
>>> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>>> Schools
>>>
>>> Fergus
>>>
>>> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
>>> journey
>>> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
>>> Becta
>>> website.....?
>>> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
>>> offerings
>>> measure up against these requirements?
>>>
>>> "What is online reporting?
>>>
>>> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
>>> access
>>> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
>>> behaviour
>>> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>>>
>>> What do I have to do and when?
>>>
>>> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
>>> available
>>> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>>>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>>>     * Progress and attainment
>>>     * Special needs
>>> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>>>
>>> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
>>> of the
>>> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
>>> aspirations.
>>>
>>> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
>>> and
>>> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>>>
>>> Tony
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> Tony Parkin
>>> Head of ICT Development
>>> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
>>> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
>>> 21-24 Millbank
>>> London SW1P 4QP
>>>
>>> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
>>> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
>>> Mob:+44 07739 436073
>>> Skype: parkintony
>>> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
>>> admin@talk.naace.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
>>> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
>>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>>> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>>> Schools
>>>
>>> Hi, Fergus,
>>>
>>> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
>>> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
>>> did a
>>> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
>>> were all
>>> on holiday.
>>>
>>> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
>>> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
>>> reporting
>>> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
>>> next
>>> week.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
>>> this
>>> issue:
>>>
>>> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
>>> through
>>> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
>>> 'SmartAssess';
>>> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
>>> date,
>>> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
>>> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
>>> a good
>>> e-Portfolio system.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
>>> firstly it
>>> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>>>
>>> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
>>> degree of
>>> 'sales pitch'.
>>>
>>> Best Wishes,
>>>
>>> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
>>> ICT Education Consultant
>>> Maximise ICT Ltd
>>> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>>> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
>>> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
>>> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
>>> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
>>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
>>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
>>> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
>>> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
>>> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
>>> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
>>> -
>>> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
>>> appreciated.
>>> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
>>> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
>>> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>>>
>>> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>>>
>>> Fergus Reynolds
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
>>> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
>>> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
>>> the body
>>> text:
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>>> with the body text:
>>>
>>> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
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From mike@new-media-learning.org  Tue Jan  5 12:09:26 2010
From: mike@new-media-learning.org (Mike Bostock)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:09:26 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>	 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>	 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>	 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701ca8dff$ee38b0b0$caaa1210$@org>

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Crispin and Neil raise some good points here about the  relationship between
what is learnt and how we measure it.  Chris Gerry was right to point out
that education lags behind many other professional walks of life in the way
that it uses information to support decision making.  Our data systems have
historically concentrated on storage and too little on professional
analysis.  For a long time it has been a 'data in, same data out' model.  I
think that is changing. BETT 2010, for example, will show new developments
from the bigger suppliers - SIMS Discover and Serco Perspective - that mark
a positive trends towards making data work harder.

Neil is correct in pointing out that the outcomes to our business -
well-education young people - are not the same as products in the shop.
Measures of how well schools manage the process are more problematic.  But
the range of 'soft skills' that Neil refers to are real enough. The RSA
Opening Minds Framework, for example,  goes some way to defining categories
of competence and show how such data can be collected and evaluated.  

Our traditional  examination system however still regards knowledge-based
learning, rewarded many times over with each GCSE that is passed, as the
high-value route through education, despite the continuing potential
mismatch to the needs of employers.  It is easy to gather such data through
simple testing.  ICT systems are capable of much more subtlety though. The
abandonment of the first attempts at online testing doesn't mean that we
can't get this right. The mechanical 7/10 reporting that dominates IT
testing doesn't deny the realisation of  the potential for a learning
platform to provide continuous diagnostic feedback to teacher and learner.

Online Reporting will provide the momentum for asking questions about the
value of information presented to parents, about how data can be collected
and turned into information, and about how the broader process of learning
can be recorded.  We are only at the start of this journey.  

ICT and learning have inseparable futures.  As a community I think we are in
a good position to promote and apply our collective professional knowledge
to extending the scope of ICT systems for managing, measuring and reporting
learning.  

Mike Bostock

 

 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 10:45
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Crispin

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. That is the problem with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a
subjective element that "learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way,
but which are vital to modern life.

The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. At
the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.

So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes
after all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so
until the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial
intelligence is delivered.

I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.

Regards and happy new year to all

Neil

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk> 
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
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Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Crispin and Neil raise some good points here about the =
&nbsp;relationship
between what is learnt and how we measure it.&nbsp; Chris Gerry was =
right to point
out that education lags behind many other professional walks of life in =
the way
that it uses information to support decision making. &nbsp;Our data =
systems have
historically concentrated on storage and too little on professional =
analysis. &nbsp;For
a long time it has been a &#8216;data in, same data out&#8217; model. =
&nbsp;I
think that is changing. BETT 2010, for example, will show new =
developments from
the bigger suppliers &#8211; SIMS Discover and Serco Perspective &#8211; =
that mark
a positive trends towards making data work harder.<br>
<br>
Neil is correct in pointing out that the outcomes to our business =
&#8211; well-education
young people &#8211; are not the same as products in the shop. Measures =
of how
well schools manage the process are more problematic. &nbsp;But the =
range of &#8216;soft
skills&#8217; that Neil refers to are real enough. The RSA Opening Minds
Framework, for example, &nbsp;goes some way to defining categories of =
competence
and show how such data can be collected and evaluated. &nbsp;<br>
<br>
Our traditional &nbsp;examination system however still regards =
knowledge-based
learning, rewarded many times over with each GCSE that is passed, as the
high-value route through education, despite the continuing potential =
mismatch
to the needs of employers. &nbsp;It is easy to gather such data through =
simple
testing. &nbsp;ICT systems are capable of much more subtlety though. The =
abandonment
of the first attempts at online testing doesn&#8217;t mean that we =
can&#8217;t
get this right. The mechanical 7/10 reporting that dominates IT testing =
doesn&#8217;t
deny the realisation of &nbsp;the potential for a learning platform to =
provide
continuous diagnostic feedback to teacher and learner.<br>
<br>
Online Reporting will provide the momentum for asking questions about =
the value
of information presented to parents, about how data can be collected and =
turned
into information, and about how the broader process of learning can be =
recorded.
&nbsp;We are only at the start of this journey.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
ICT and learning have inseparable futures. &nbsp;As a community I think =
we are in
a good position to promote and apply our collective professional =
knowledge to extending
the scope of ICT systems for managing, measuring and reporting =
learning.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Mike Bostock<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 10:45<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Crispin<br>
<br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. =
That
is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of
it has a subjective element that &quot;learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then =
there's a
whole range of &quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess =
in that
way, but which are vital to modern life.<br>
<br>
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload =
through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what =
can be
reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is =
creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it =
becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display =
year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. =
At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are =
going up.
But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next =
stage
of education and into work actually more capable (as against
&quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<br>
<br>
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no =
clothes after
all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so =
until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.<br>
<br>
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners =
to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing =
a
data-driven dream.<br>
<br>
Regards and happy new year to all<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little =
&quot;official&quot;<br>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>=

&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
&nbsp;I<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
<br clear=3Dall>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
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------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CA8DFF.EE38B0B0--


From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 12:39:44 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:39:44 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data. 
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> Some thought for comment;
> 
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> 
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
> 
> Colin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Fergus
> 
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
> 
> "What is online reporting?
> 
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> 
> What do I have to do and when?
> 
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> 
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
> 
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> 
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
> 
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Hi, Fergus,
> 
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
> 
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
> 
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
> 
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
> 
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
> 
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> 
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> 
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the body
> text:
> 
> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
> 
> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
> 
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Secondary mailing list Secondary@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the
> body text:
> 
> unsubscribe Secondary YourEmailAddress
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> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
> To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with
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> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the body text:
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To unsubscribe send a message to Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org with the
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with the body text:

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From johnwasteney@strategict.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 17:41:35 2010
From: johnwasteney@strategict.co.uk (John Wasteney)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:41:35 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report
issued termly or annually as real time. 

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176 



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data. 
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> Some thought for comment;
> 
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> 
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
> 
> Colin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Fergus
> 
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
> 
> "What is online reporting?
> 
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> 
> What do I have to do and when?
> 
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> 
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
> 
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> 
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
> 
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Hi, Fergus,
> 
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
> 
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
> 
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
> 
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
> 
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
> 
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> 
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> 
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with
> the body
> text:
> 
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From crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 18:57:21 2010
From: crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk (Crispin Weston)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:57:21 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi all,

 

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and
apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

 

@Mike. I agree.

 

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.
My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become more
like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, of
course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some
of the essential prerequisites beforehand.

 

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled
individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that
efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they
have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A
student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant
to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
being taught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just
because the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that
student's learning needs are.

 

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

 

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

 

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and
what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that
he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that
you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
extraordinarily primitive.

 

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment 

 

"the graphs ? I seriously do not 

understand where they fit in"

 

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs. 

 

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of
the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation
for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart
from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must
have mastered the necessary prerequisites. 

 

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer
gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

 

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have
to have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

 

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an
important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the
data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back
to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system
is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more
motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat
people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the
system.

 

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio :-) but rather the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the
requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

 

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many
other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants
who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone
any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work".
It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly
and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

 

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it
has been such a disaster that it wasn't. 

 

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that
this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
reporting to parents can become. 

 

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency
which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

 

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My
responses inline.


All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. 

I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! 

Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and
grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher
comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One
of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to
do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
automated wherever possible.

While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
well.

That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into
your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills that
are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.

So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this
as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.

I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a
philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large
number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency
with some degree of confidence.

Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.

Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an
*output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on
subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given
some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. If
that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been
done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.
Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to me
to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment,
intervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we
all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.

And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are
actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within a
particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty
humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate
teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a
class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow
them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to
offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence
with flexible grouping and staffing systems.

The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. 

I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us)
is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as
a "live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation,
discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.

At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.

I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The
traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original
and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that
I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many
students and many types of examination - but I think that a properly
reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests which
do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
learning.

So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? 

I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily -
others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact
that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
(whether you agree with the views or not).

or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? 

I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring
the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system. 

I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.

I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, with
the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This is
all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarket
terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much
Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without
noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robots are
fantastically useful.

I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.

I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more
data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
asks the class to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the
students have done, if anything?

One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
(and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data
aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.

Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't
swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because
it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want
to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
their child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point
about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
itself.

One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have
become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make
sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for
teacher as required.

In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
business. 

Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.
Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),
use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the
problem.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should
benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same
time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service
that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort
of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniques
does not run.

I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!

Crispin.






2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk> 
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up =
here.
Thanks to everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a
correspondingly long essay in response.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>@Mike. I =
agree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet =
&#8211;
but I think you may have misunderstood my position and I fear that the =
bouquet might
metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>agree</span></b>* with Chris Gerry that =
schools should
become more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence =
(though
not, of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of =
real time
reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place =
some of
the essential prerequisites beforehand.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the =
stuff
about children being happy, fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am =
suspicious
of what I take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of =
happiness. People&#8217;s
happiness increases a little when they receive a public service which is =
efficient
and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into =
Tesco and
find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am =
(moderately)
grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. =
A
student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is =
relevant to
his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end =
being
taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t understand or already knows, =
just
because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered accurately to assess and track =
what
that student&#8217;s learning needs are.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy =
comment:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8220;</span></font><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>You
can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by =
feeding
it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it by =
weighing it.
Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and =
I
suspect he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig =
farm. Any
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of =
what it
is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in education =
are generally
extraordinarily primitive.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have some sympathy with =
Alistair&#8217;s
comment <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8220;</span></f=
ont><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>the
graphs ? I seriously do not <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand where =
they fit in&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>but the problem here is not the =
fact that
the data is being collected but that it is not being used efficiently. =
Nothing
is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake =
of
making pretty graphs. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So what *<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>is</span></b>*
the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of the primary
criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation for a =
moment) is
the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teacher, there =
is a
time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from *<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>wanting</span></b>* to learn it (again, a =
motivational
aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So the key requirement for an =
efficient
education system is managing progression, differentiation and =
personalisation
to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of teaching at the =
right
time &#8211; just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right =
pig or
puts the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in
managerial terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex =
managerial
task.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily =
antiquated
system in which people are driven through the syllabus in age-based =
cohorts,
like troops being driven over the top at the <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Somme</st1:place>
in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to have systems =
capable of
tracking students&#8217; individual capabilities. This type of tracking =
of
business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted =
that I
find it very strange that we are even having this discussion as to =
whether we
should be doing the same things in =
education.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike =
farming,
the student (unlike the pig) has an important say in what he/she needs =
&#8211;
but this is a question of where the data comes from and does not =
undermine the
need to track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more =
likely
to be motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my =
individual
needs &#8211; and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding =
to) my
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence =
systems is
that they *<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>do</span></b>* treat =
people as individuals,
even though there are large numbers of them in the =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the =
software
systems that are out there (either for tracking student progress or even =
for
e-portfolio </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DWingdings><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></fon=
t><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> but rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient =
quality
and quantity into these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the
involvement of parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on =
benefit
from implementing effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time
reporting is a relatively recent government target does not undermine =
the fact
that, internally, the requirement for business intelligence has been
long-standing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I support the objective of real =
time
reporting. The danger (as with so many other systems) is that it will be
introduced in response to what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the =
bath,
driven through by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the =
right
boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people =
saying &#8220;real
time reporting doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;. It is very important to manage =
the
introduction of these projects properly and, in the case of real-time
reporting, this means ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data =
to the
reporting component.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hardly any of these components =
(real-time
reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on =
its own &#8211;
which is why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be =
fixed
and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to =
&#8211; I
completely agree with the point that this is making. The data that the =
parent
can see is the data which is being automatically managed by Moodle from =
the online
assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is =
realistically
going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the more data =
is
collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that at the
moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly =
rudimentary) the
richer the online reporting to parents can become. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to =
show the
right data to the right people in the right way (see comments on =
drowning in
data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. =
But the
fact that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should =
not be
tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to other =
people,
either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s
performance and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is
completely unaware of.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your =
concerns
but not with your conclusion. My responses =
inline.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. =
<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t
see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work =
demonstrating an
understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Of
course I exaggerate a bit and a binary &#8220;bleep&#8221; does not =
represent
particularly high quality data &#8211; but other quantitative data like =
scores
and grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments =
wherever
possible &#8211; and make it as easy as possible for them to do so =
&#8211; but teacher
comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. =
One of
the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the =
customer
to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. =
Which is
my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated =
wherever
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While I
agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are =
subjective, so
are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjective =
buying
decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprising =
degrees of
consistency. Maths models probability really quite =
well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>That is the =
problem with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a =
subjective
element that &quot;learning<font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'> </span></font>software
(really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot =
automatically
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole =
range of
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, =
but which
are vital to modern life.<font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So,
following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this =
as a
problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this =
uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would
call any measure of competency a &#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as =
a
philosopher might talk about a &#8220;truth claim&#8221;. If you start =
to see a
large number of competency claims from different sources showing a =
significant
degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student&#8217;s
competency with some degree of confidence.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Competency
claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student =
output on a
student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be =
qualified
by comments. So the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted =
and
conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors =
can
also be tracked and compensated for.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also, I
am proposing the measurement of competency as an *<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>input</span></b>* and not an *<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>output</span></b>*
of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on =
subtraction are
not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra =
teaching
before the introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception =
is
misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the =
decision to
make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions =
based on
some kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if =
the
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might
say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional
judgement of the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, =
hardly
anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and =
the
pigs are left to fight for it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And
finally, while some &#8220;soft&#8221; competencies are very subjective, =
others
are actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone&#8217;s French =
vocab
within a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a =
computer-delivered
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is =
pretty
humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled =
graduate teacher
(who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a =
class of
students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them =
to
access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to =
offer.
This is why Chris Gerry&#8217;s approach combines business intelligence =
with
flexible grouping and staffing systems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The Government =
(quite
reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but =
there
comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can be reasonably&quot;
automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more
problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder =
and
harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of =
course
begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think
I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a =
paragraph of
bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us) is =
sufficient
to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph differently, =
which
has given governments the opportunity to manipulate results data for =
their own
purposes. I would see a competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; =
thing, which
lived through a continuous process of moderation, discussion and =
revision. Which
what good teachers do anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>At the moment =
people are
(because the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) =
teaching to
the test and &quot;standards&quot; are going up. But is that actually =
educating
children better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into =
work
actually more capable (as against &quot;competent&quot;)? I think =
not.<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t
see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The =
traditional
academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original and =
creative
thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt =
more
when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising along in =
classrooms.
OK &#8211; the academic essay is not appropriate to many students and =
many types
of examination &#8211; but I think that a properly reconstituted =
examination
system should be able to come up with tests which do not reward =
mechanistic
teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote =
learning.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So, are we =
chasing our
tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning =
tasks? <font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think
there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and teacher. =
Some
tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily &#8211; others =
cannot.
But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by
being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am =
writing this
on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with =
the
views or not).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>or does the =
VLE-emperor
have no clothes after all? <font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think
in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty =
skimpy
dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will =
see
being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the long delayed
digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires some =
kind of
infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will =
be the
infrastructure bits (plural) of the system. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I tend to =
believe it is
rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but
yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do not
think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total AI =
solution &#8211;
rather *<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>sufficient</span></b>* =
intelligence
for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always coming =
back to
the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replacing, the =
human
teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. =
People who
have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about =
dehumanising robots
without noticing that they are using them all the time and that the =
robots are
fantastically useful.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I believe we =
should be
doing more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to =
teachers to
help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven =
dream.<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do not
think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are
separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents =
(i.e.
data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every =
time it
launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation =
file. When
I am half way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). =
And in
a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do =
something, doesn&#8217;t
the teacher expect to see what the students have done, if =
anything?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One of
the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment (and =
which
we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =
project) is
the fact that so much learning content is &#8220;static&#8221; and not =
data
aware &#8211; it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and =
report.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Much of
this data does not cross the human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in =
the
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they =
can&#8217;t
swim. People &#8220;drown in data&#8221; not because there is too much =
data but
because it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are =
show
the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do =
not want
to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message =
when their
child hasn&#8217;t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point =
about
the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in =
itself.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One of
the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have =
become
very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make =
sense of
the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds useful.
Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for =
teacher as
required.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In
summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =
business and
education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Some
data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right =
course. Codify
and measure where you can (because codification allows automation), use =
free
text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the =
problem.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ultimately,
it doesn&#8217;t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should =
benefit
from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same =
time, when
it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service that =
they are
responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian =
grove
where the writ of modern business management techniques does not =
run.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I guess
that should be accompanied by sounds of more =
stirring!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has =
a
massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from =
<st1:country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Kent</st1:place></st1:country-region>) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little =
&quot;official&quot;<br>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Specialist</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
 w:st=3D"on">Schools</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> &amp; Academies =
Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Millbank</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">Tower</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">London</st1:City> =
<st1:PostalCode
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&gt;<br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>=

&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
&nbsp;I<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01CA8E38.E99131C0--


From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 20:00:37 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:00:37 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk> <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk>

John, you bring to mind an anecdote:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"

That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report
issued termly or annually as real time. 

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176 



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data. 
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> Some thought for comment;
> 
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> 
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
> 
> Colin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Fergus
> 
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
> 
> "What is online reporting?
> 
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> 
> What do I have to do and when?
> 
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> 
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
> 
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> 
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
> 
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
> 
> Hi, Fergus,
> 
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
> 
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
> 
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
> 
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
> 
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
> 
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> 
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> 
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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From neil@beaconict.co.uk  Tue Jan  5 23:36:29 2010
From: neil@beaconict.co.uk (Neil Adam)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:36:29 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com>

--0016e6db29b5a48556047c734ee6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be
able to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear
they'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and
does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in
the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward the
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--0016e6db29b5a48556047c734ee6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great response Crispin<br><br>Still not sure that people are able to see th=
e big enough picture nto be able to use data-driven system responsibly in t=
he way you describe. I fear they&#39;ll stick with the easy tick-box stuff =
that can be readily processed and does add some value but largely brings sy=
stems in to disrepute :(<br>
<br>Neil<br><br><br>-- <br><br>Neil Adam<br>Beacon ICT<br>Twitter: @NeilAda=
m<br><a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br><br=
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>122 Be=
acon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
~~~~~~~~~~~~<br><br>Please note: =A0This email and any attachments are inte=
nded only for those in the address list above. If it has come to you by mis=
take, please let me know, delete the message and any attachments, and pleas=
e do not forward the material to anyone else.<br>


--0016e6db29b5a48556047c734ee6--

From crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 08:17:39 2010
From: crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk (Crispin Weston)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:17:39 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CA8EA8.B68686C0
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	charset="us-ascii"
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Thanks Neil.

 

I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done and that change
is a problem. I don't think that the way to introduce change is by beating
teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in current
circumstances.

 

My recipe for change is:

 

1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I believe to be
critical, in close consultation with industry;

2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer whatever
innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;

3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that make sense to
them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives easier.

 

And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the
current environment.

 

Crispin.

 

 

  _____  

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 23:36
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be
able to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear
they'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and
does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in
the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward the
material to anyone else.


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks =
Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am sure you are right that it is =
all easier
said than done and that change is a problem. I don&#8217;t think that =
the way
to introduce change is by beating teachers round the head to do what may =
well
be the impossible in current circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My recipe for change =
is:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>1. Put in place the key =
interoperability
standards which I believe to be critical, in close consultation with =
industry;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>2. Free the industry from =
restrictive
central procurements to offer whatever innovative learning technology =
solutions
they can dream up;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>3. Free teachers and school leaders =
to buy
the solutions that make sense to them, deliver better learning to =
children and
make their lives easier.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>And in the meantime, I am sure you =
are
right to focus on what works in the current =
environment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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0cm 4.0pt'>

<div>

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size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Neil Adam<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 05 January 2010 =
23:36<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> advisory<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Advisory] =
Online
Reporting in Schools</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Great response Crispin<br>
<br>
Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be =
able
to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear =
they'll
stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and =
does add
some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(<br>
<br>
Neil<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<st1:address w:st=3D"on"><st1:Street w:st=3D"on">122 Beacon =
Road</st1:Street>, <st1:City
 w:st=3D"on">Broadstairs</st1:City>, <st1:country-region =
w:st=3D"on">Kent</st1:country-region>
 <st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">CT10 3DQ</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for =
those
in the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let =
me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward =
the
material to anyone else.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From meades@gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 10:25:45 2010
From: meades@gmail.com (J Meades)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:25:45 +0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>
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Message-ID: <e3ed8c5a1001060225g181a3ab5t261edd1947c827d1@mail.gmail.com>

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Hi everyone

Ray's contribution:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
> done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
>
> When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the compute=
r
> and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
>
> Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came hom=
e
> to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been
> looking
> on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
>

This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online reporting
means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, the learner
progressing their learning.

What online reporting actually looks like depends upon which stakeholder yo=
u
identify as being the principal stakeholder. For me, without exception, it
has to be the learner - the needs of the bureaucracy surrounding the learne=
r
then need to be prioritorised based upon their level of support for learnin=
g
so next in line is the teacher and parent, everybody else are then standing
inline.

Jeremy





2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle <BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk>

> This is a very interesting strand.
>
> It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers t=
o
> move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder audiences
> here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child =
is
> either working towards at present or likely  achieve, pupils need to know
> what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels.  Teachers, Head of
> departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is o=
n
> track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar
> agendas.  I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.  Reportin=
g
> is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs if
> you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats.  Very oft=
en
> the students requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these
> stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to gain=
.
> Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets
> is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few year=
s.
> As with many schools:
> =EF=BF=BD We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by l=
esson).
> =EF=BF=BD We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still pri=
nt them
> out on paper and post them home.
> =EF=BF=BD A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software an=
d advice
> on how to write reports.
> =EF=BF=BD A rolling program of updating the technology.
> However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house
> technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge
> investment.
> The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and
> unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide th=
e
> different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there is no impact i=
n
> the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one sho=
uld
> question the value of the process!  We are currently looking at what real
> time reporting will look like in the future.
>
> The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will s=
ee
> what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a real=
ity
> in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  Could it b=
e a
> reality at Key stage 3 and 4?
>
> We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say
> that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the mode=
l
> that we want for our students in the future.
>
> Keith Buncle
> Data Systems Leader
> South Bromsgrove Community High School
>
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> John, you bring to mind an anecdote:
>
> Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
> done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
>
> When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the compute=
r
> and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
>
> Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came hom=
e
> to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been
> looking
> on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
>
> That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about=
.
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
]
> On Behalf Of John Wasteney
> Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
> To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
> reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
> same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.
>
> I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporti=
ng
> as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
> professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being=
 a
> replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
> course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition th=
at
> it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative repo=
rt
> issued termly or annually as real time.
>
> The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well
> defined
> in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and car=
ry
> out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they
> want
> we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit i=
n
> limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking o=
f
> progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
> recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
> evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates
> much
> more to
>
> What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activitie=
s)
> Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their
> lunch
> (primary)
> Are they involved in extra curricular activities
> Homework tasks
> Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
> things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
> An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have yo=
u
> been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", th=
ey
> can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
> e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.
>
> Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
> individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
> digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class
> blog
> is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertine=
nt
> to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existin=
g
> systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
> notification are well established in many schools now.
>
> Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
> not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
> that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want t=
o
> know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
> social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
> under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
> unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact need=
s
> to be made by the school to the teacher.
>
> This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning =
is
> not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individua=
l
> learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
> lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed
> and
> teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n't=
h
> degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress.
> This
> has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary
> schools
> with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
> point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures
> to
> keep Mr Ofsted happy.
>
> As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
> current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often=
!
> I
> have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can b=
e
> an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
> atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
> progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individual=
s
> may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggrega=
te
> a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
> shared with learners areas that need to be developed.
>
> regards,
>
> John
>
> John Wasteney
> Managing Director
> Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd
>
> Tel: 01455 290960
> Mob:07810 446176
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
]
> On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
> Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Crispin,
>
> For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustratio=
n
> is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
> little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
> dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a
> relatively
> new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
> pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
> Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a
> meandering
> majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
> real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad h=
oc
> written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?
>
> Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process dat=
a
> set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
> information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
> Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
> perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
> staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be=
 a
> better approach?
>
> BW
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
> Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
> To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.or=
g
> Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasi=
ng
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report stude=
nt
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, mo=
st
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
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<br><div>Hi everyone<br><br>Ray&#39;s contribution:<br><br><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">Before VLEs or Home Access, a par=
ent would ask their child what they have<br>

done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing much.&quot;<br=
><br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer<=
br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I&#39;ve done in school today!&quot;<br><=
br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home<=
br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I&#39;ve be=
en looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I&#39;m so proud of you!&quot;<br></blockqu=
ote>

<br>This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online report=
ing means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, the lear=
ner progressing their learning.<br><br>What online reporting actually looks=
 like depends upon which stakeholder you identify as being the principal st=
akeholder. For me, without exception, it has to be the learner - the needs =
of the<span style=3D"" lang=3D"EN-GB"> bureaucracy</span>

surrounding the learner then need to be prioritorised based upon their leve=
l of support for learning so next in line is the teacher and parent, everyb=
ody else are then standing inline.<br><br>Jeremy<br><br><br><br><br>=C2=A0<=
br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk" target=3D"_blank">BL=
@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt =
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

This is a very interesting strand.<br>
<br>
It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers to =
move students learning forward. =C2=A0We do have several stakeholder audien=
ces here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their chil=
d is either working towards at present or likely =C2=A0achieve, pupils need=
 to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels. =C2=A0Teache=
rs, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and lea=
rning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have=
 similar agendas. =C2=A0I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service her=
e. =C2=A0Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the=
 various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different fo=
rmats. =C2=A0Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked b=
y the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that =
have the most to gain.<br>


Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets i=
s something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.<=
br>
As with many schools:<br>
=EF=BF=BD We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by les=
son).<br>
=EF=BF=BD We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print=
 them out on paper and post them home.<br>
=EF=BF=BD A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and =
advice on how to write reports.<br>
=EF=BF=BD A rolling program of updating the technology.<br>
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house technica=
l support that has taken time to bring together. =C2=A0This is a huge inves=
tment.<br>
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and u=
nused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide the d=
ifferent stakeholders with meaningful feedback. =C2=A0If there is no impact=
 in the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one s=
hould question the value of the process! =C2=A0We are currently looking at =
what real time reporting will look like in the future.<br>


<br>
The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see=
 what their child has done during a particular school day. =C2=A0Is this a =
reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases? =C2=
=A0Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?<br>


<br>
We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say t=
hat this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model t=
hat we want for our students in the future.<br>
<br>
Keith Buncle<br>
Data Systems Leader<br>
South Bromsgrove Community High School<br>
<div><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
econdary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.n=
aace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On Behalf O=
f Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">r=
jt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>


</div>Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00<br>
<div><div></div><div>To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.n=
aace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
John, you bring to mind an anecdote:<br>
<br>
Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have<b=
r>
done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing much.&quot;<br=
>
<br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer<=
br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I&#39;ve done in school today!&quot;<br>
<br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home<=
br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I&#39;ve be=
en looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I&#39;m so proud of you!&quot;<br>
<br>
That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.<=
br>
<br>
Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">ad=
visory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@ta=
lk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of John Wasteney<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42<br>
To: &#39;Ray Tolley&#39;; <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.n=
aace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time<br>
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the<b=
r>
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.<br>
<br>
I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting=
<br>
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education<br>
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a=
<br>
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of<br=
>
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that=
<br>
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report=
<br>
issued termly or annually as real time.<br>
<br>
The difficulty arises from the word &#39;report&#39; as this is already wel=
l defined<br>
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry=
<br>
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they wan=
t<br>
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in<=
br>
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of<=
br>
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this<br>
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents<b=
r>
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates muc=
h<br>
more to<br>
<br>
What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)=
<br>
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunc=
h<br>
(primary)<br>
Are they involved in extra curricular activities<br>
Homework tasks<br>
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra<b=
r>
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc<br>
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you<=
br>
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - &quot;not a lot&q=
uot;, they<br>
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring&#39;=
s<br>
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.<br>
<br>
Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each<br>
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few<br>
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blo=
g<br>
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent=
<br>
to some =C2=A0but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that exis=
ting<br>
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without<br>
notification are well established in many schools now.<br>
<br>
Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are<b=
r>
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts<br=
>
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to<=
br>
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and<br>
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably<br>
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes<br>
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs<=
br>
to be made by the school to the teacher.<br>
<br>
This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is=
<br>
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual<=
br>
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good<br>
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed an=
d<br>
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n&#39=
;th<br>
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. Thi=
s<br>
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary school=
s<br>
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting<br=
>
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures t=
o<br>
keep Mr Ofsted happy.<br>
<br>
As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the<b=
r>
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! =
I<br>
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be<=
br>
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not<b=
r>
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at<b=
r>
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals<=
br>
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate=
<br>
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and<br=
>
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
John Wasteney<br>
Managing Director<br>
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd<br>
<br>
Tel: 01455 290960<br>
Mob:07810 446176<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">ad=
visory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@ta=
lk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory@t=
alk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
Crispin,<br>
<br>
For once I feel that I must disagree with you. =C2=A0Your bar-code illustra=
tion<br>
is excellent but the observation that you make, &quot;Most schools have ver=
y<br>
little useful performance or competency data in their systems.&quot; is a<b=
r>
dangerous argument to make. =C2=A0On-line and real-time reporting is a rela=
tively<br>
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking<b=
r>
pupils&#39; progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.=
<br>
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meanderin=
g<br>
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring<br>
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc=
<br>
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?<br>
<br>
Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data<=
br>
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that<br>
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.<b=
r>
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,<br>
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with<br>
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a=
<br>
better approach?<br>
<br>
BW<br>
<br>
Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
econdary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin=
@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:Colin@revell.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">Colin@revell.o=
rg.uk</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">adv=
isory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>

Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<b=
r>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers&#39; purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There&#39;s a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" t=
arget=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-=
" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and =C2=A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the &#39;expectations&#39; in this area, as currently delineated on=
 the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children&#39;s work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that &#39;real-time reporting&#39;, though clearly invalu=
able<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but &#39;reports&#39; are always abou=
t past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =C2=A0I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; &#39;interrogate&#39; leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. =C2=A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; &#39;SmartAssess&#39;;<br>
&gt; 2. =C2=A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. =C2=A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: =C2=A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; &#39;sales pitch&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" t=
arget=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. =C2=A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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--0016e6d58b2f96f28a047c7c6004--

From crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 10:42:03 2010
From: crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk (Crispin Weston)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:42:03 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk> <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>,<001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk> <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>
Message-ID: <997F1AB6CB004DB584EEE4C1564AAC3F@DEVELOPMENT>

Hi Keith,
As with my previous reply to Neil Adam, I agree that the process might be more challenging than agreeing the goal.
I agree with you that the usefulness of data-driven systems will often depend on the school's ability to make appropriate interventions - which is the bit of the equation which requires innovation from schools.
And I am sure that in-school data managers are important - but there is a danger that the investment which you refer to becomes unsustainable if the underlying software does not make it easy enough. My whole argument rests on the need to enable a competitive market which will provide tools which are fit for purpose and easy to use. I think there is a danger in trying to leverage inadequate tools which leads to schools and Local Authorities having, at great expense, to reinvent all sorts of very complex technical wheels.
The discussion I am therefore interested in within the context of SALTIS (www.saltis.org) is not "how do you use your VLE/MIS/e-portfolio" and not even "what do you want tomorrow's VLE/MIS/e-porfolio to do" (which is a discussion to have with individual suppliers) but "how do you want tomorrow's VLE/MIS/e-porfolio systems to work together". The answers to that question (which need to be decided on collectively within the industry) percolate down and affect all the others. And it would be really useful if the industry discussions which we are having (for example within SALTIS) can be better informed by inputs from the educational community - and particularly, perhaps, from NAACE.
Crispin.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of BL Mr K Buncle
> Sent: 06 January 2010 09:44
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> This is a very interesting strand.
> 
> It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help
> teachers to move students learning forward.  We do have several
> stakeholder audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what
> grade or level their child is either working towards at present or
> likely  achieve, pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve
> the grades or levels.  Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want
> to be assured that teaching and learning is on track to meet the
> targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar agendas.  I
> hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.  Reporting is
> complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs
> if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats.
> Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked by the
> demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that
> have the most to gain.
> Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many
> facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the
> past few years.
> As with many schools:
> � We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by
> lesson).
> � We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print
> them out on paper and post them home.
> � A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and
> advice on how to write reports.
> � A rolling program of updating the technology.
> However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house
> technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a
> huge investment.
> The investment is however wasted if the data collected is
> meaningless and unused. The data team spend time analysing the
> information and provide the different stakeholders with meaningful
> feedback.  If there is no impact in the classroom that helps in
> moving students learning forward then one should question the value
> of the process!  We are currently looking at what real time
> reporting will look like in the future.
> 
> The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents
> will see what their child has done during a particular school day.
> Is this a reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and
> all phases?  Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?
> 
> We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could
> not say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas,
> what is the model that we want for our students in the future.
> 
> Keith Buncle
> Data Systems Leader
> South Bromsgrove Community High School
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-
> ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> John, you bring to mind an anecdote:
> 
> Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they
> have
> done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
> 
> When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the
> computer
> and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
> 
> Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child
> came home
> to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been
> looking
> on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
> 
> That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all
> about.
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of John Wasteney
> Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
> To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
> reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging
> in the
> same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.
> 
> I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online
> reporting
> as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
> professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply
> being a
> replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old.
> Then of
> course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the
> recognition that
> it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative
> report
> issued termly or annually as real time.
> 
> The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well
> defined
> in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means
> and carry
> out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what
> they want
> we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting.
> Albeit in
> limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP,
> tracking of
> progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes
> this
> recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a
> parents
> evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want
> relates much
> more to
> 
> What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and
> activities)
> Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat
> their lunch
> (primary)
> Are they involved in extra curricular activities
> Homework tasks
> Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the
> extra
> things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
> An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what
> have you
> been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a
> lot", they
> can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their
> offspring's
> e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.
> 
> Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what
> each
> individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a
> few
> digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the
> class blog
> is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are
> pertinent
> to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that
> existing
> systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
> notification are well established in many schools now.
> 
> Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are
> teachers) are
> not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie
> charts
> that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents
> want to
> know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional
> and
> social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
> under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
> unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact
> needs
> to be made by the school to the teacher.
> 
> This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that
> learning is
> not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an
> individual
> learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so
> good
> lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data
> focussed and
> teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to
> the n'th
> degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate
> progress. This
> has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary
> schools
> with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the
> starting
> point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up
> figures to
> keep Mr Ofsted happy.
> 
> As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them,
> but the
> current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more
> often! I
> have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which
> can be
> an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we
> should not
> atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should
> look at
> progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that
> individuals
> may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can
> aggregate
> a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers
> and
> shared with learners areas that need to be developed.
> 
> regards,
> 
> John
> 
> John Wasteney
> Managing Director
> Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd
> 
> Tel: 01455 290960
> Mob:07810 446176
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
> Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> Crispin,
> 
> For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code
> illustration
> is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have
> very
> little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
> dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a
> relatively
> new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for
> tracking
> pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by
> teachers.
> Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a
> meandering
> majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
> real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces,
> ad hoc
> written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?
> 
> Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to
> process data
> set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
> information it is a start and should be commended rather than
> criticised.
> Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent
> parents,
> perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet
> with
> staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting
> might be a
> better approach?
> 
> BW
> 
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
> Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
> To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org;
> secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> 
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a
> massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting
> on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out
> that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers'
> purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still
> in a sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have
> very little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a
> big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only
> useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input -
> and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the
> supermarkets lay in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when
> learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report
> student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must
> also of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted
> out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering
> up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been
> promised by
> the government.
> Crispin.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access
> to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter
> that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum
> for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in
> Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring
> this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive
> and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September
> 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in
> some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about
> past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects
> to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-
> to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available
> through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools
> that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this
> area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that.
> I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested
> in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
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From Tony.Parkin@ssatrust.org.uk  Wed Jan  6 10:41:46 2010
From: Tony.Parkin@ssatrust.org.uk (Tony Parkin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:41:46 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] RE: Online Reporting in Schools - the lighter side?
In-Reply-To: <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>
 <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>,<001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk>
 <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>
Message-ID: <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0812A@Hermes.sst.lan>

The interest in 'real-time' reporting has even reached the popular press.... today's 'Metro' carries an article about a Serco/CMIS pilot in Bristol and promises a wider rollout.

Graced of course by a headline.. 'Big Mother is watching you'

:)

Tony

-----------------------------------------------
Tony Parkin
Head of ICT Development
Specialist Schools and Academies Trust
17th floor, Millbank Tower
21-24 Millbank
London SW1P 4QP
E:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
T: 020 7802  2306
M: 07739 436073
Skype:parkintony
IM:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
------------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of BL Mr K Buncle
Sent: 06 January 2010 09:44
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

This is a very interesting strand.

It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers to move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child is either working towards at present or likely  achieve, pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels.  Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar agendas.  I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.  Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats.  Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to gain.
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.
As with many schools:
� We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).
� We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print them out on paper and post them home.
� A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and advice on how to write reports.
� A rolling program of updating the technology.
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge investment.
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide the different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there is no impact in the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one should question the value of the process!  We are currently looking at what real time reporting will look like in the future.

The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?

We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model that we want for our students in the future.

Keith Buncle
Data Systems Leader
South Bromsgrove Community High School

________________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

John, you bring to mind an anecdote:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"

That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report
issued termly or annually as real time.

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 11:39:47 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:39:47 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <e3ed8c5a1001060225g181a3ab5t261edd1947c827d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>	 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>	 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>	 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>	 <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>	 <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>	 <001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk>	 <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3> <e3ed8c5a1001060225g181a3ab5t261edd1947c827d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01ca8ec4$f3417d10$d9c47730$@co.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CA8EC4.F3417D10
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, Jeremy =E2=80=93 if online reporting doesn=E2=80=99t help the =
learner (both directly and indirectly) what use is it!

=20

I hesitate to quote the following in case I=E2=80=99m accused of any =
form of commercial abuse.  However, as a system that I have seen running =
for some years now and which students *DO* say is of benefit to them may =
I quote the following as one possible approach to on-line reporting:

=20

An extract from a conversation with Gwyn ap Harri of SmartAssess:

=20

The pedagogy that smartassess follows is that it is the learner's =
assessment that is most valuable to the learner, then their peers, then =
their mentors.

=20

Trying to take your analogy, the shopper doesn't care what Tescos knows =
about them as long as they can buy what they want. It's a secondary =
consideration. Tescos tries to make sense of their customer's behaviour =
without being obtrusive.

=20

In education, unfortunately, the assessment of kids by teachers is the =
primary consideration and gears the whole system around it.

=20

realsmart (our learning suite) is completely real time, and is based on =
qualitative data, not quantitative. And it has to be as learning is much =
more complex than buying a bag of sprouts...

=20

So, the key for us is that the driving force is the learner, and we =
provide tools for mentors to assess from visual summaries to delving =
right into the heart of their learning.

=20

I understand that one of RealSmart=E2=80=99s next moves is to extend =
this to parental access.

=20

But anyway, a few videos might illustrate the potential:

http://www.smartassess.com/mediacentre/=20

=20

BW

=20

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/> =
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/> =
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm> =
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

=20

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of J Meades
Sent: 06 January 2010 10:26
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: Re: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

=20

=20

Hi everyone

Ray's contribution:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they =
have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the =
computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came =
home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been =
looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"


This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online =
reporting means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, =
the learner progressing their learning.

What online reporting actually looks like depends upon which stakeholder =
you identify as being the principal stakeholder. For me, without =
exception, it has to be the learner - the needs of the bureaucracy =
surrounding the learner then need to be prioritorised based upon their =
level of support for learning so next in line is the teacher and parent, =
everybody else are then standing inline.

Jeremy




=20

2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle <BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk>

This is a very interesting strand.

It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers =
to move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder =
audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level =
their child is either working towards at present or likely  achieve, =
pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or =
levels.  Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured =
that teaching and learning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED =
and Local Authorities have similar agendas.  I hope that I am not doing =
anyone a dis-service here.  Reporting is complex and requires thought =
and planning to meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly =
entering data in different formats.  Very often the students =
requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these =
stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to =
gain.
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many =
facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past =
few years.
As with many schools:
=EF=BF=BD We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by =
lesson).
=EF=BF=BD We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still =
print them out on paper and post them home.
=EF=BF=BD A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software =
and advice on how to write reports.
=EF=BF=BD A rolling program of updating the technology.
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house =
technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge =
investment.
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless =
and unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and =
provide the different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there =
is no impact in the classroom that helps in moving students learning =
forward then one should question the value of the process!  We are =
currently looking at what real time reporting will look like in the =
future.

The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will =
see what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a =
reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  =
Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?

We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not =
say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the =
model that we want for our students in the future.

Keith Buncle
Data Systems Leader
South Bromsgrove Community High School


________________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On =
Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]

Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00

To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

John, you bring to mind an anecdote:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they =
have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the =
computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came =
home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been =
looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"

That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all =
about.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in =
the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online =
reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply =
being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition =
that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative =
report
issued termly or annually as real time.

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well =
defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and =
carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they =
want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit =
in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking =
of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a =
parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates =
much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and =
activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their =
lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the =
extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have =
you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", =
they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class =
blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are =
pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that =
existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) =
are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want =
to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact =
needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning =
is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an =
individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed =
and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the =
n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. =
This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary =
schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up =
figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but =
the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more =
often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can =
be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should =
not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look =
at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that =
individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can =
aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code =
illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a =
relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for =
tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a =
meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad =
hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process =
data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than =
criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might =
be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =
massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk =
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>=20
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yes, Jeremy =E2=80=93 if online reporting doesn=E2=80=99t =
help the learner (both
directly and indirectly) what use is it!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I hesitate to quote the following in case I=E2=80=99m =
accused of any
form of commercial abuse.=C2=A0 However, as a system that I have seen =
running for
some years now and which students *<b>DO</b>* say is of benefit to them =
may I
quote the following as one possible approach to on-line =
reporting:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>An extract from a conversation with Gwyn ap Harri of
SmartAssess:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i>The pedagogy that smartassess follows is that it =
is the
learner's assessment that is most valuable to the learner, then their =
peers, then
their mentors.<o:p></o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i>Trying to take your analogy, the shopper doesn't =
care
what Tescos knows about them as long as they can buy what they want. =
It's a
secondary consideration. Tescos tries to make sense of their customer's
behaviour without being obtrusive.<o:p></o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i>In education, unfortunately, the assessment of =
kids by
teachers is the primary consideration and gears the whole system around =
it.<o:p></o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i>realsmart (our learning suite) is completely =
real time,
and is based on qualitative data, not quantitative. And it has to be as
learning is much more complex than buying a bag of =
sprouts...<o:p></o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i>So, the key for us is that the driving force is =
the
learner, and we provide tools for mentors to assess from visual =
summaries
to&nbsp;delving right into the heart of their =
learning.<o:p></o:p></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I understand that one of RealSmart=E2=80=99s next moves =
is to extend
this to parental access.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But anyway, a few videos might illustrate the =
potential:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.smartassess.com/mediacentre/">http://www.smartassess.c=
om/mediacentre/</a><span
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>J Meades<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 10:26<br>
<b>To:</b> advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi everyone<br>
<br>
Ray's contribution:<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask =
their child
what they have<br>
done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing =
much.&quot;<br>
<br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the =
computer<br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I've done in school today!&quot;<br>
<br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came =
home<br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I've =
been
looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of =
you!&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online =
reporting
means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, the =
learner
progressing their learning.<br>
<br>
What online reporting actually looks like depends upon which stakeholder =
you
identify as being the principal stakeholder. For me, without exception, =
it has
to be the learner - the needs of the bureaucracy surrounding the learner =
then
need to be prioritorised based upon their level of support for learning =
so next
in line is the teacher and parent, everybody else are then standing =
inline.<br>
<br>
Jeremy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>This is a very interesting strand.<br>
<br>
It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers =
to move
students learning forward. &nbsp;We do have several stakeholder =
audiences here.
In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child is =
either
working towards at present or likely &nbsp;achieve, pupils need to know =
what
they need to do to achieve the grades or levels. &nbsp;Teachers, Head of
departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is =
on
track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar
agendas. &nbsp;I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.
&nbsp;Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the
various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different
formats. &nbsp;Very often the students requirements for feedback are =
masked by
the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that =
have
the most to gain.<br>
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many =
facets is
something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few =
years.<br>
As with many schools:<br>
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode =
MS","sans-serif"'>=EF=BF=BD</span> We have had
full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).<br>
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode =
MS","sans-serif"'>=EF=BF=BD</span> We have had
regular electronic reporting, although we still print them out on paper =
and
post them home.<br>
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode =
MS","sans-serif"'>=EF=BF=BD</span> A phased
training of staff from using the hardware, software and advice on how to =
write
reports.<br>
<span style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode =
MS","sans-serif"'>=EF=BF=BD</span> A rolling
program of updating the technology.<br>
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house =
technical
support that has taken time to bring together. &nbsp;This is a huge =
investment.<br>
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless =
and
unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide =
the
different stakeholders with meaningful feedback. &nbsp;If there is no =
impact in
the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one =
should
question the value of the process! &nbsp;We are currently looking at =
what real
time reporting will look like in the future.<br>
<br>
The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will =
see
what their child has done during a particular school day. &nbsp;Is this =
a
reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?
&nbsp;Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?<br>
<br>
We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not =
say that this
was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model that we =
want
for our students in the future.<br>
<br>
Keith Buncle<br>
Data Systems Leader<br>
South Bromsgrove Community High School<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>To: <a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
John, you bring to mind an anecdote:<br>
<br>
Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they =
have<br>
done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing =
much.&quot;<br>
<br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the =
computer<br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I've done in school today!&quot;<br>
<br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came =
home<br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I've =
been
looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!&quot;<br>
<br>
That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all =
about.<br>
<br>
Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of John Wasteney<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42<br>
To: 'Ray Tolley'; <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time<br>
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in =
the<br>
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.<br>
<br>
I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online =
reporting<br>
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education<br>
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply =
being a<br>
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then =
of<br>
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition =
that<br>
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative =
report<br>
issued termly or annually as real time.<br>
<br>
The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well =
defined<br>
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and =
carry<br>
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they =
want<br>
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit =
in<br>
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking =
of<br>
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes =
this<br>
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a =
parents<br>
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates =
much<br>
more to<br>
<br>
What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and =
activities)<br>
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their =
lunch<br>
(primary)<br>
Are they involved in extra curricular activities<br>
Homework tasks<br>
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the =
extra<br>
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc<br>
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have =
you<br>
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - &quot;not a
lot&quot;, they<br>
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their =
offspring's<br>
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.<br>
<br>
Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what =
each<br>
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a =
few<br>
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class =
blog<br>
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are =
pertinent<br>
to some &nbsp;but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that =
existing<br>
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without<br>
notification are well established in many schools now.<br>
<br>
Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) =
are<br>
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie =
charts<br>
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want =
to<br>
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional =
and<br>
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably<br>
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes<br>
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact =
needs<br>
to be made by the school to the teacher.<br>
<br>
This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning =
is<br>
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an =
individual<br>
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so =
good<br>
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed =
and<br>
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the =
n'th<br>
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. =
This<br>
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary =
schools<br>
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the =
starting<br>
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up =
figures to<br>
keep Mr Ofsted happy.<br>
<br>
As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but =
the<br>
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more =
often! I<br>
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can =
be<br>
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should =
not<br>
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look =
at<br>
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that =
individuals<br>
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can =
aggregate<br>
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers =
and<br>
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
John Wasteney<br>
Managing Director<br>
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd<br>
<br>
Tel: 01455 290960<br>
Mob:07810 446176<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
Crispin,<br>
<br>
For once I feel that I must disagree with you. &nbsp;Your bar-code =
illustration<br>
is excellent but the observation that you make, &quot;Most schools have =
very<br>
little useful performance or competency data in their systems.&quot; is =
a<br>
dangerous argument to make. &nbsp;On-line and real-time reporting is a
relatively<br>
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for =
tracking<br>
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by =
teachers.<br>
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a =
meandering<br>
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring<br>
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad =
hoc<br>
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?<br>
<br>
Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process =
data<br>
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that<br>
information it is a start and should be commended rather than =
criticised.<br>
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent =
parents,<br>
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet =
with<br>
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might =
be a<br>
better approach?<br>
<br>
BW<br>
<br>
Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:Colin@revell.org.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">Colin@revell.org.uk</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =
massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little =
&quot;official&quot;<br>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
&nbsp;I<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CA8EC4.F3417D10--


From meades@gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 12:10:13 2010
From: meades@gmail.com (J Meades)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:10:13 +0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <000e01ca8ec4$f3417d10$d9c47730$@co.uk>
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Message-ID: <e3ed8c5a1001060410s70b74d18yd3cc29c8d54cb0bd@mail.gmail.com>

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Totally agree Ray.

There are many examples where the learner is central to the whole process.

Unfortunately, there are many more examples where that is not the case. The
introduction of learning platforms to the learning mix had such a potential
and where schools have invested in evolving teachers' pedagogy and use of a
learning platform, they have been successful. In such cases the key
characteristic has been that the learner is the principle stakeholder in th=
e
whole process.

Good use of a learning platform places the learner at the centre and
provides the learner with the tools necessary to learn. It removes the
teacher from the position of 'sole provider of knowledge' and engages the
teacher as a facillitator and supporter of learning. It extends access to
'formal' learning beyond the classroom and blurs the edges between 'formal'
learning and 'informal' learning (There's a whole new debate right there -
formal and informal learning!)

Of all the IT 'initiatives' during the last few years, this one is probably
the most important and influential in evolving learning. Previous
initiatives have all been leading to this point. For the first time there i=
s
a very real opportunity to actively engage parents in their child's learnin=
g
at secondary school level - for me that is exciting! However, with that
there will be the struggle for the position of principal stakeholder =E2=80=
=93 I
hope that the learner will win =E2=80=93 if so, education as we know it, wi=
ll change
dramatically. Is this the =E2=80=98tipping point=E2=80=99?

Jeremy


2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>

>  Yes, Jeremy =E2=80=93 if online reporting doesn=E2=80=99t help the learn=
er (both directly
> and indirectly) what use is it!
>
>
>
> I hesitate to quote the following in case I=E2=80=99m accused of any form=
 of
> commercial abuse.  However, as a system that I have seen running for some
> years now and which students **DO** say is of benefit to them may I quote
> the following as one possible approach to on-line reporting:
>
>
>
> An extract from a conversation with Gwyn ap Harri of SmartAssess:
>
>
>
> *The pedagogy that smartassess follows is that it is the learner's
> assessment that is most valuable to the learner, then their peers, then
> their mentors.*
>
> * *
>
> *Trying to take your analogy, the shopper doesn't care what Tescos knows
> about them as long as they can buy what they want. It's a secondary
> consideration. Tescos tries to make sense of their customer's behaviour
> without being obtrusive.*
>
> * *
>
> *In education, unfortunately, the assessment of kids by teachers is the
> primary consideration and gears the whole system around it.*
>
> * *
>
> *realsmart (our learning suite) is completely real time, and is based on
> qualitative data, not quantitative. And it has to be as learning is much
> more complex than buying a bag of sprouts...*
>
> * *
>
> *So, the key for us is that the driving force is the learner, and we
> provide tools for mentors to assess from visual summaries to delving righ=
t
> into the heart of their learning.*
>
>
>
> I understand that one of RealSmart=E2=80=99s next moves is to extend this=
 to
> parental access.
>
>
>
> But anyway, a few videos might illustrate the potential:
>
> http://www.smartassess.com/mediacentre/
>
>
>
> BW
>
>
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
>
> *From:* secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] *On Behalf Of *J Meades
>
> *Sent:* 06 January 2010 10:26
> *To:* advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone
>
> Ray's contribution:
>
> Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
> done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
>
> When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the compute=
r
> and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
>
> Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came hom=
e
> to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been
> looking
> on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
>
>
> This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online reportin=
g
> means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, the learne=
r
> progressing their learning.
>
> What online reporting actually looks like depends upon which stakeholder
> you identify as being the principal stakeholder. For me, without exceptio=
n,
> it has to be the learner - the needs of the bureaucracy surrounding the
> learner then need to be prioritorised based upon their level of support f=
or
> learning so next in line is the teacher and parent, everybody else are th=
en
> standing inline.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle <BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk>
>
> This is a very interesting strand.
>
> It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers t=
o
> move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder audiences
> here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child =
is
> either working towards at present or likely  achieve, pupils need to know
> what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels.  Teachers, Head of
> departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is o=
n
> track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar
> agendas.  I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.  Reportin=
g
> is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs if
> you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats.  Very oft=
en
> the students requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these
> stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to gain=
.
> Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets
> is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few year=
s.
> As with many schools:
> =EF=BF=BD We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by l=
esson).
> =EF=BF=BD We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still pri=
nt them
> out on paper and post them home.
> =EF=BF=BD A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software an=
d advice
> on how to write reports.
> =EF=BF=BD A rolling program of updating the technology.
> However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house
> technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge
> investment.
> The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and
> unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide th=
e
> different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there is no impact i=
n
> the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one sho=
uld
> question the value of the process!  We are currently looking at what real
> time reporting will look like in the future.
>
> The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will s=
ee
> what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a real=
ity
> in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  Could it b=
e a
> reality at Key stage 3 and 4?
>
> We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say
> that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the mode=
l
> that we want for our students in the future.
>
> Keith Buncle
> Data Systems Leader
> South Bromsgrove Community High School
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
>
> Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
>
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> John, you bring to mind an anecdote:
>
> Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
> done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
>
> When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the compute=
r
> and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
>
> Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came hom=
e
> to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been
> looking
> on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
>
> That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about=
.
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
]
> On Behalf Of John Wasteney
> Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
> To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
> reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
> same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.
>
> I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporti=
ng
> as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
> professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being=
 a
> replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
> course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition th=
at
> it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative repo=
rt
> issued termly or annually as real time.
>
> The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well
> defined
> in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and car=
ry
> out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they
> want
> we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit i=
n
> limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking o=
f
> progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
> recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
> evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates
> much
> more to
>
> What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activitie=
s)
> Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their
> lunch
> (primary)
> Are they involved in extra curricular activities
> Homework tasks
> Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
> things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
> An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have yo=
u
> been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", th=
ey
> can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
> e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.
>
> Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
> individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
> digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class
> blog
> is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertine=
nt
> to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existin=
g
> systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
> notification are well established in many schools now.
>
> Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
> not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
> that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want t=
o
> know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
> social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
> under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
> unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact need=
s
> to be made by the school to the teacher.
>
> This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning =
is
> not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individua=
l
> learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
> lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed
> and
> teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n't=
h
> degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress.
> This
> has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary
> schools
> with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
> point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures
> to
> keep Mr Ofsted happy.
>
> As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
> current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often=
!
> I
> have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can b=
e
> an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
> atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
> progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individual=
s
> may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggrega=
te
> a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
> shared with learners areas that need to be developed.
>
> regards,
>
> John
>
> John Wasteney
> Managing Director
> Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd
>
> Tel: 01455 290960
> Mob:07810 446176
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
]
> On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
> Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Crispin,
>
> For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustratio=
n
> is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
> little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
> dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a
> relatively
> new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
> pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
> Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a
> meandering
> majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
> real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad h=
oc
> written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?
>
> Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process dat=
a
> set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
> information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
> Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
> perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
> staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be=
 a
> better approach?
>
> BW
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
> Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
> To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.or=
g
> Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasi=
ng
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report stude=
nt
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, mo=
st
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
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Totally agree Ray. <br><br>There are many examples where the learner is cen=
tral to the whole process. <br><br>Unfortunately, there are many more examp=
les where that is not the case. The introduction of learning platforms to t=
he learning mix had such a potential and where schools have invested in evo=
lving teachers&#39; pedagogy and use of a learning platform, they have been=
 successful. In such cases the key characteristic has been that the learner=
 is the principle stakeholder in the whole process.<br>
<br>Good use of a learning platform places the learner at the centre and pr=
ovides the learner with the tools necessary to learn. It removes the teache=
r from the position of &#39;sole provider of knowledge&#39; and engages the=
 teacher as a facillitator and supporter of learning. It extends access to =
&#39;formal&#39; learning beyond the classroom and blurs the edges between =
&#39;formal&#39; learning and &#39;informal&#39; learning (There&#39;s a wh=
ole new debate right there - formal and informal learning!)<br>
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</style><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;">Of all the IT
&#39;initiatives&#39; during the last few years, this one is probably the m=
ost
important and influential in evolving learning. Previous initiatives have a=
ll been leading to this
point. For the first time there is a very real opportunity to actively enga=
ge
parents in their child&#39;s learning at secondary school level - for me th=
at is
exciting! However, with that there will be the struggle for the position of
principal stakeholder =E2=80=93 I hope that the learner will win =E2=80=93 =
if so, education as
we know it, will change dramatically. Is this the =E2=80=98tipping point=E2=
=80=99? </span></font><br><br>Jeremy<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ic=
t.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">








<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-GB">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Yes, Jeremy =E2=80=93 if online reporting doesn=E2=80=99t help the le=
arner (both
directly and indirectly) what use is it!</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I hesitate to quote the following in case I=E2=80=99m accused of any
form of commercial abuse.=C2=A0 However, as a system that I have seen runni=
ng for
some years now and which students *<b>DO</b>* say is of benefit to them may=
 I
quote the following as one possible approach to on-line reporting:</span></=
p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">An extract from a conversation with Gwyn ap Harri of
SmartAssess:</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>The pedagogy that smartassess follows is that it =
is the
learner&#39;s assessment that is most valuable to the learner, then their p=
eers, then
their mentors.</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>=C2=A0</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>Trying to take your analogy, the shopper doesn&#3=
9;t care
what Tescos knows about them as long as they can buy what they want. It&#39=
;s a
secondary consideration. Tescos tries to make sense of their customer&#39;s
behaviour without being obtrusive.</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>=C2=A0</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>In education, unfortunately, the assessment of ki=
ds by
teachers is the primary consideration and gears the whole system around it.=
</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>=C2=A0</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>realsmart (our learning suite) is completely real=
 time,
and is based on qualitative data, not quantitative. And it has to be as
learning is much more complex than buying a bag of sprouts...</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>=C2=A0</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i>So, the key for us is that the driving force is t=
he
learner, and we provide tools for mentors to assess from visual summaries
to=C2=A0delving right into the heart of their learning.</i></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I understand that one of RealSmart=E2=80=99s next moves is to extend
this to parental access.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">But anyway, a few videos might illustrate the potential:</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.smartassess.com/mediacentre/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.smartassess.com/mediacentre/</a><span>=C2=A0</=
span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p><=
div class=3D"im">


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">BW</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Ray Tolley=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31,=
 73, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><=
a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</spa=
n></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></sp=
an></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">B:=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5);"><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</spa=
n></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

W:=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><=
a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm<=
/span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=
<br>

</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of th=
e IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=C2=A0</span></p>

</div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 1=
96, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium =
medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">F=
rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"=
mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@ta=
lk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>J Meades<div class=
=3D"im"><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 10:26<br>
</div><div class=3D"im"><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:seconda=
ry@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
</div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Sc=
hools</span></p>

</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">Hi everyone<br>
<br>
Ray&#39;s contribution:</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their=
 child
what they have<br>
done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing much.&quot;<br=
>
<br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer<=
br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I&#39;ve done in school today!&quot;<br>
<br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home<=
br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I&#39;ve be=
en
looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I&#39;m so proud of you!&quot;</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
This does it for me. The key questions are not about what online reporting
means but more about the purpose of online reporting, that is, the learner
progressing their learning.<br>
<br>
What online reporting actually looks like depends upon which stakeholder yo=
u
identify as being the principal stakeholder. For me, without exception, it =
has
to be the learner - the needs of the bureaucracy surrounding the learner th=
en
need to be prioritorised based upon their level of support for learning so =
next
in line is the teacher and parent, everybody else are then standing inline.=
<br>
<br>
Jeremy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2010/1/6 BL Mr K Buncle &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:BL@sou=
thbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk" target=3D"_blank">BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.u=
k</a>&gt;</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a very interesting strand.<br>
<br>
It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers to =
move
students learning forward. =C2=A0We do have several stakeholder audiences h=
ere.
In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child is eithe=
r
working towards at present or likely =C2=A0achieve, pupils need to know wha=
t
they need to do to achieve the grades or levels. =C2=A0Teachers, Head of
departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is on
track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar
agendas. =C2=A0I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.
=C2=A0Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the
various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different
formats. =C2=A0Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked=
 by
the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that ha=
ve
the most to gain.<br>
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets i=
s
something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.<br=
>
As with many schools:<br>
<span>=EF=BF=BD</span> We have had
full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).<br>
<span>=EF=BF=BD</span> We have had
regular electronic reporting, although we still print them out on paper and
post them home.<br>
<span>=EF=BF=BD</span> A phased
training of staff from using the hardware, software and advice on how to wr=
ite
reports.<br>
<span>=EF=BF=BD</span> A rolling
program of updating the technology.<br>
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house technica=
l
support that has taken time to bring together. =C2=A0This is a huge investm=
ent.<br>
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and
unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide the
different stakeholders with meaningful feedback. =C2=A0If there is no impac=
t in
the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one shoul=
d
question the value of the process! =C2=A0We are currently looking at what r=
eal
time reporting will look like in the future.<br>
<br>
The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see
what their child has done during a particular school day. =C2=A0Is this a
reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?
=C2=A0Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?<br>
<br>
We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say t=
hat this
was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model that we wa=
nt
for our students in the future.<br>
<br>
Keith Buncle<br>
Data Systems Leader<br>
South Bromsgrove Community High School</p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
econdary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">second=
ary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]</p>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00</p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">To: <a href=3D"mailto=
:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
John, you bring to mind an anecdote:<br>
<br>
Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have<b=
r>
done in school today, with the usual response, &quot;Nothing much.&quot;<br=
>
<br>
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer<=
br>
and said, &quot;Come and see what I&#39;ve done in school today!&quot;<br>
<br>
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home<=
br>
to the exclamation from the parent, &quot;Wow, congratulations! I&#39;ve be=
en
looking<br>
on line at your work today, and I&#39;m so proud of you!&quot;<br>
<br>
That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.<=
br>
<br>
Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">ad=
visory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">=
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of John Wasteney<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42<br>
To: &#39;Ray Tolley&#39;; <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time<br>
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the<b=
r>
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.<br>
<br>
I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting=
<br>
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education<br>
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a=
<br>
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of<br=
>
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that=
<br>
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report=
<br>
issued termly or annually as real time.<br>
<br>
The difficulty arises from the word &#39;report&#39; as this is already wel=
l defined<br>
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry=
<br>
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they wan=
t<br>
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in<=
br>
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of<=
br>
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this<br>
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents<b=
r>
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates muc=
h<br>
more to<br>
<br>
What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)=
<br>
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunc=
h<br>
(primary)<br>
Are they involved in extra curricular activities<br>
Homework tasks<br>
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra<b=
r>
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc<br>
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you<=
br>
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - &quot;not a
lot&quot;, they<br>
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring&#39;=
s<br>
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.<br>
<br>
Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each<br>
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few<br>
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blo=
g<br>
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent=
<br>
to some =C2=A0but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that exis=
ting<br>
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without<br>
notification are well established in many schools now.<br>
<br>
Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are<b=
r>
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts<br=
>
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to<=
br>
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and<br>
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably<br>
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes<br>
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs<=
br>
to be made by the school to the teacher.<br>
<br>
This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is=
<br>
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual<=
br>
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good<br>
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed an=
d<br>
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n&#39=
;th<br>
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. Thi=
s<br>
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary school=
s<br>
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting<br=
>
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures t=
o<br>
keep Mr Ofsted happy.<br>
<br>
As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the<b=
r>
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! =
I<br>
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be<=
br>
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not<b=
r>
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at<b=
r>
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals<=
br>
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate=
<br>
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and<br=
>
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
John Wasteney<br>
Managing Director<br>
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd<br>
<br>
Tel: 01455 290960<br>
Mob:07810 446176<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">ad=
visory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">=
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory@t=
alk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
Crispin,<br>
<br>
For once I feel that I must disagree with you. =C2=A0Your bar-code illustra=
tion<br>
is excellent but the observation that you make, &quot;Most schools have ver=
y<br>
little useful performance or competency data in their systems.&quot; is a<b=
r>
dangerous argument to make. =C2=A0On-line and real-time reporting is a
relatively<br>
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking<b=
r>
pupils&#39; progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.=
<br>
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meanderin=
g<br>
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring<br>
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc=
<br>
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?<br>
<br>
Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data<=
br>
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that<br>
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.<b=
r>
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,<br>
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with<br>
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a=
<br>
better approach?<br>
<br>
BW<br>
<br>
Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
econdary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston<br>
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:Colin@revell.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">Colin@revell.o=
rg.uk</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.=
naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
<br>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<b=
r>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers&#39; purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There&#39;s a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and =C2=A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the &#39;expectations&#39; in this area, as currently delineated on=
 the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children&#39;s work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that &#39;real-time reporting&#39;, though clearly invalu=
able<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but &#39;reports&#39; are always abou=
t past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =C2=A0I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; &#39;interrogate&#39; leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. =C2=A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; &#39;SmartAssess&#39;;<br>
&gt; 2. =C2=A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. =C2=A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: =C2=A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; &#39;sales pitch&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley =C2=A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. =C2=A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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--0016e6d99a213d4f23047c7dd63e--

From sen.ict@ntlworld.com  Wed Jan  6 12:23:41 2010
From: sen.ict@ntlworld.com (Alistair Goodwin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:23:41 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CA8ECB.14DC2F00
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Hi Crispin et al

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my =
footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this =
and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket =
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's =
and other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to =
parents is a strong development of this also.

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a =
long time ago on this subject.

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or =
otherwise :).

The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that =
counts can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view =
here, but I still like it)

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of =
curriculum levels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." =
- Pure genius.

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to =
the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term =
plan of what goes on where. Job done.

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing =
something with someone whether they are interested / able to understand =
what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement =
based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mutual =
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say =
it, to accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in =
which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We =
almost all do this constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class =
has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she =
gets a different angle / perspective on it but that they still appear to =
be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this down. =
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. =
I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pub.

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care =
about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in =
mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and =
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and =
colleagues allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If =
you as a teacher think you can do this better on-line, then great. I =
accept that and am happy about it. I won't be joining you.

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely =
the same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it =
or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to =
whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more =
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear =
that that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to =
get that grade in that exam. What about it?

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the =
lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it =
wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to =
see how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. =
You'll soon work it out.

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to =
me whatsoever. I never look at them.

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all =
pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, =
you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it =
quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line =
and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, =
less emotion. God help us.

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff =
just go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us =
feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and =
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER =
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily =
relinquish control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on =
top of new systems increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of =
view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the =
thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review will force these people =
out of the picture because people will again get a chance to see that =
there is potentially more to life on planet earth and that life is just =
too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this week =
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.=20

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online =
grades is really not likely to be the source of the problem.

There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.


Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I =
am perfectly happy to share them :-)


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Crispin Weston=20
  To: 'advisory'=20
  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
  Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


  Hi all,

  =20

  I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's =
comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in =
response.

  =20

  @Mike. I agree.

  =20

  @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have =
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose =
into a brickbat.  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that =
schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business =
intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service they =
offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration but =
of the failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites =
beforehand.

  =20

  Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, =
fulfilled individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a =
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness =
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient =
and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into =
Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock =
and I am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems =
which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he =
receives teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not required to =
sit in a classroom for years on end being taught things that he either =
doesn't understand or already knows, just because the school hasn't =
bothered accurately to assess and track what that student's learning =
needs are.

  =20

  To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

  =20

  "You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

  =20

  I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how =
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig =
farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he =
would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any =
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of =
what it is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in =
education are generally extraordinarily primitive.

  =20

  I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment=20

  =20

  "the graphs ? I seriously do not=20

  understand where they fit in"

  =20

  but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected =
but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There =
is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty =
graphs.=20

  =20

  So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one =
of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside =
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my =
experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to =
learn something. Apart from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational =
aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary prerequisites.=20

  =20

  So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing =
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the =
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as =
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right =
bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms =
for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

  =20

  We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are =
driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being =
driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from =
this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students' individual =
capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is so =
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange =
that we are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing =
the same things in education.

  =20

  Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) =
has an important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of =
where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. =
This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be =
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual =
needs - and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my =
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence =
systems is that they *do* treat people as individuals, even though there =
are large numbers of them in the system.

  =20

  @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there =
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but =
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity =
into these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement =
of parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from =
implementing effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time =
reporting is a relatively recent government target does not undermine =
the fact that, internally, the requirement for business intelligence has =
been long-standing.

  =20

  I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so =
many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably =
to do anyone any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting =
doesn't work". It is very important to manage the introduction of these =
projects properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means =
ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting =
component.

  =20

  Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, =
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why =
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why =
it has been such a disaster that it wasn't.=20

  =20

  Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point =
that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which =
is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. =
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to =
sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is =
collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that at the =
moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly =
rudimentary) the richer the online reporting to parents can become.=20

  =20

  @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right =
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I =
agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact =
that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should not =
be tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to =
other people, either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of =
pupil's performance and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in =
teacher is completely unaware of.

  =20

  @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your =
conclusion. My responses inline.


  All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not =
"articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.=20

  I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work =
demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!=20

  Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent =
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores =
and grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments =
wherever possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - =
but teacher comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always =
uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesses in using the =
internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry that =
clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original point: data =
entry is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.

  While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes =
are subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But =
complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, =
demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability =
really quite well.

  That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency =
data - much of it has a subjective element that "learning software =
(really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically =
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole =
range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but =
which are vital to modern life.

  So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not =
see this as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this =
uncertainty.

  I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a =
philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a =
large number of competency claims from different sources showing a =
significant degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that =
student's competency with some degree of confidence.

  Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. =
student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. =
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective =
element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The =
subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and =
compensated for.

  Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and =
not an *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to =
be weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but =
they are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on =
long division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very =
great harm has been done and the decision to make that intervention can =
be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of =
business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the =
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional judgement of the teacher - but we all know that, 90% of the =
time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into =
the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.

  And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, =
others are actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French =
vocab within a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a =
computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. =
For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of =
learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to =
ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable =
resource) should not be put in front of a class of students who have not =
acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the =
particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is =
why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence with flexible =
grouping and staffing systems.

  The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload =
through automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask =
"what can be reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach =
is creating more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload =
involved) as it becomes harder and harder to align the capability that =
pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs the whole norm vs =
criterion-referenced exam debate.=20

  I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought =
that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion =
referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone =
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the =
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would =
see a competency definition as a "live" thing, which lived through a =
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what =
good teachers do anyway.

  At the moment people are (because the current system is more =
reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are =
going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to =
the next stage of education and into work actually more capable (as =
against "competent")? I think not.

  I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good =
test. The traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real =
test of original and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone =
in remembering that I learnt more when revising for my major exams than =
in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not =
appropriate to many students and many types of examination - but I think =
that a properly reconstituted examination system should be able to come =
up with tests which do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the =
regurgitation of rote learning.

  So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce =
software-assessed learning tasks?=20

  I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and =
teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily - =
others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be =
made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. =
The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my =
thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).

  or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?=20

  I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a =
pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I =
think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will =
bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software =
system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in =
the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the =
system.=20

  I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until =
the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial =
intelligence is delivered.

  I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) =
total AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular =
task, with the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human =
teacher. This is all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher =
who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. People who =
have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about =
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the =
time and that the robots are fantastically useful.

  I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to =
learners to learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so =
hung up chasing a data-driven dream.

  I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on =
the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it =
produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style =
sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more =
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a =
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching =
context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn't the =
teacher expect to see what the students have done, if anything?

  One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the =
moment (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content =
Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" =
and not data aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and =
report.

  Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the =
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they =
can't swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data =
but because it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they =
are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that =
parents do not want to see attendance records but they do like to =
receive a text message when their child hasn't turned up to school. =
Quite agree. But that is a point about the presentation of data, not =
about whether data is a good thing in itself.

  One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces =
have become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the =
data, make sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the =
teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special =
needs adviser etc for teacher as required.

  In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive =
business.=20

  Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more =
subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on =
the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because codification =
allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and =
interpretation. I can't see the problem.

  Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers =
should benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and =
at the same time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency =
in the service that they are responsible for providing, claim that they =
inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business =
management techniques does not run.

  I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!

  Crispin.






  2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

  It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =
massive
  missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?
  I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
  excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that
  while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing
  preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in =
a sort
  of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little
  useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
  emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
  real-time data that schools have.
  The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and
  manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in
  the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
  software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student
  performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of
  course be able to make sense of that data.
  I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most
  of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the
  fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by
  the government.
  Crispin.


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
  > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
  > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
  > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
  > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
  >
  > Some thought for comment;
  >
  > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
  > parents
  > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
  > information about
  > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
  > reporting
  > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
  > Ed Balls
  > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
  >
  > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
  > whom and
  > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
  > and I am
  > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
  > this
  > change is coming from the MIS providers?
  >
  > Colin
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
  > admin@talk.naace.org]
  > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
  > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
  > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
  > Cc: Ray Tolley
  > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
  > Schools
  >
  > Fergus
  >
  > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
  > journey
  > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
  > Becta
  > website.....?
  > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
  > offerings
  > measure up against these requirements?
  >
  > "What is online reporting?
  >
  > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
  > access
  > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
  > behaviour
  > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
  >
  > What do I have to do and when?
  >
  > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
  > available
  > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
  >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
  >     * Progress and attainment
  >     * Special needs
  > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
  >
  > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
  > of the
  > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
  > aspirations.
  >
  > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
  > and
  > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
  >
  > Tony
  > --------------------------------------------
  > Tony Parkin
  > Head of ICT Development
  > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
  > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
  > 21-24 Millbank
  > London SW1P 4QP
  >
  > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
  > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
  > Mob:+44 07739 436073
  > Skype: parkintony
  > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
  > --------------------------------------------
  > ________________________________________
  > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
  > admin@talk.naace.org] On
  > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
  > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
  > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
  > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
  > Schools
  >
  > Hi, Fergus,
  >
  > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
  > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
  > did a
  > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
  > were all
  > on holiday.
  >
  > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
  > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
  > reporting
  > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
  > next
  > week.
  >
  > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
  > this
  > issue:
  >
  > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
  > through
  > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
  > 'SmartAssess';
  > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
  > date,
  > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
  > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
  > a good
  > e-Portfolio system.
  >
  > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
  > firstly it
  > will depend on your present VLE provider.
  >
  > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
  > degree of
  > 'sales pitch'.
  >
  > Best Wishes,
  >
  > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
  > ICT Education Consultant
  > Maximise ICT Ltd
  > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
  > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
  > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
  > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
  > admin@talk.naace.org]
  > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
  > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
  > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
  > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
  >
  > Colleagues,
  >
  > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
  > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
  > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
  > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
  > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
  > -
  > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
  > appreciated.
  > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
  > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
  > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
  >
  > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
  >
  > Fergus Reynolds
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  --=20

  Neil Adam
  Beacon ICT
  Twitter: @NeilAdam
  www.beaconict.co.uk=20

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<BODY lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff vLink=3Dblue>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi Crispin et al</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Apologies for appearing to misinterpret =
your angle=20
on this (see my footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where =
you stand=20
on this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The =
supermarket=20
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's =
and=20
other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents =
is a=20
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece =
of useful=20
advice I was given a long time ago on this subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The first quote is obviously the pig =
one, pithy or=20
not (lisping or otherwise :).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The second is Einstein's:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DT><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>"Not everything that can be counted =
counts, and not=20
everything that counts can be counted."</FONT></DT>
<DT><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>(again, apologies to Einstein if he does =
not=20
entirely share my view here, but I still like it)</FONT></DT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The piece of advice I was given on =
making sound=20
assessments of curriculum levels is this;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and =
chances are=20
you're not that far out." - </FONT><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Pure=20
genius.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>To me, teaching is a two way process. I =
don't teach=20
the same stuff to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a =
rough=20
long-term plan of what goes on where. Job done.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I =
know if I=20
start&nbsp;discussing something with someone whether they are interested =
/ able=20
to understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this=20
judgement based on human traits I and they have and through a process of =
mutual=20
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say =
it, to=20
accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in which =
they are=20
'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do =
this=20
constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this =
already at=20
my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / =
perspective=20
on it but that&nbsp;they still appear to be studying alongside their =
peers. I=20
may or may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful =
to me or=20
the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at =
the=20
pub.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I believe I am able to do this because =
I had a good=20
upbringing and care about where other people are coming from. It's an =
approach=20
that works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington =
Station and=20
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and =
colleagues=20
allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a =
teacher=20
think you can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am=20
happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I won't be joining you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Furthermore, when I was at school I sat =
a series of=20
exams at precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether =
I was=20
ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably =
related=20
to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much =
more=20
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear =
that that=20
grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that =
grade in=20
that exam. What about it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>To me, assessment looks like a lesson =
plan. I=20
wouldn't have planned the lesson like that if I thought it was at the =
wrong=20
'level' or if it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' =
learning. You=20
want to see how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 =
seconds.=20
You'll soon work it out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It =
makes=20
absolutley no difference to me whatsoever. I never look at =
them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Just to make my position even more =
clear, if you=20
think that giving all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to =
sort this=20
country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I =
can see=20
it quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn=20
laptop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I am confident that my views here will =
be seen=20
by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and unprofessional. And there's your =
problem in=20
a nutshell. More graphs, less emotion. God help us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Isn't it about time that people who =
like graphs and=20
records and stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than =
making the=20
rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked =
and=20
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? =
That's&nbsp;NEVER=20
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily =
relinquish=20
control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new =
systems=20
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, =
music etc=20
Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary =
Curriculum=20
review will force these people out of the picture because people will =
again get=20
a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth =
and that=20
life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this =
week=20
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to =
their&nbsp;REAL=20
neighbours anymore. Wake up. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Something is wrong and the current =
level of=20
availability of online grades is really not likely to be the source of =
the=20
problem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>There is only one purpose to life: To=20
live.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Take a deep breath... and =
begin.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Alistair Goodwin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hants</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>N.B. The views expressed in this email =
are mine,=20
not Crispin's... but I am perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them =
:-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dcrispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk=20
  href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin Weston</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dadvisory@talk.naace.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 05, 2010 =
6:57=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Advisory] Online =
Reporting=20
  in Schools</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi=20
  all,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I seem to =
have=20
  stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s comments and =
apologies in=20
  advance for a correspondingly long essay in=20
  response.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">@Mike. I=20
  agree.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">@Alistair: =
thanks for=20
  the bouquet =96 but I think you may have misunderstood my position and =
I fear=20
  that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is =
that I=20
  *<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">agree</SPAN></B>* with Chris =
Gerry that=20
  schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of their =
business=20
  intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service they =
offer). My=20
  criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of the =
failure=20
  to put in place some of the essential prerequisites=20
  beforehand.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Of course I =
also=20
  agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled individuals =
=96 but I=20
  am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the =
enemy=20
  of happiness. People=92s happiness increases a little when they =
receive a public=20
  service which is efficient and appropriate to their needs. My =
happiness=20
  increases when I go into Tesco and find that they have my favourite =
type of=20
  Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) grateful for the =
computerised=20
  logistics systems which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little =
happier=20
  when he receives teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not =
required=20
  to sit in a classroom for years on end being taught things that he =
either=20
  doesn=92t understand or already knows, just because the school =
hasn=92t bothered=20
  accurately to assess and track what that student=92s learning needs=20
  are.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To respond =
to Jeff=92s=20
  pithy comment:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">=93</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You can't fatten =
a pig by=20
  weighing it!=94<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I agree =
that you=20
  fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and what sort =
of food=20
  to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that he should not =
bother=20
  to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that you know =
nothing about=20
  running a pig farm. Any efficient business is completely dependent on =
feedback=20
  and analysis of what it is doing. The systems that we have in place =
for doing=20
  this in education are generally extraordinarily=20
  primitive.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I have some =
sympathy=20
  with Alistair=92s comment <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">=93</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">the graphs ? I =
seriously=20
  do not <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">understand where =
they fit=20
  in=94<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">but the =
problem here=20
  is not the fact that the data is being collected but that it is not =
being used=20
  efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting =
data just=20
  for the sake of making pretty graphs. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So what =
*<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">is</SPAN></B>* the point of collecting the =
data? It=20
  seems to me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in =
education=20
  (putting aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of =
teaching.=20
  In my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready =
to=20
  learn something. Apart from *<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">wanting</SPAN></B>* to learn it (again, a=20
  motivational aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary=20
  prerequisites. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So the key=20
  requirement for an efficient education system is managing progression, =

  differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right student =
gets the=20
  right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as a farmer gives the =
right=20
  sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer on =
the right=20
  bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom teacher, =
that is=20
  an extremely complex managerial task.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We start =
from an=20
  extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are driven through =
the=20
  syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over the top =
at the=20
  <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Somme</st1:place> in neat lines. But to get =
away from=20
  this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students=92 =
individual=20
  capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is so =
ubiquitous=20
  and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange that we =
are even=20
  having this discussion as to whether we should be doing the same =
things in=20
  education.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Of course, =
in=20
  education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an =
important say in=20
  what he/she needs =96 but this is a question of where the data comes =
from and=20
  does not undermine the need to track it. This links back to the =
motivational=20
  aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system is tracking =
(and=20
  responding to) my individual needs =96 and even more motivated if it =
is tracking=20
  (and responding to) my individual wants. The whole point of modern =
business=20
  intelligence systems is that they *<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">do</SPAN></B>* treat people as =
individuals, even=20
  though there are large numbers of them in the=20
  system.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">@Ray: I am =
not=20
  criticising the software systems that are out there (either for =
tracking=20
  student progress or even for e-portfolio </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2=20
  face=3DWingdings><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> but rather =
the=20
  difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into =
these=20
  systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of =
parents as a=20
  pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing =
effective=20
  internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively =
recent=20
  government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the=20
  requirement for business intelligence has been=20
  long-standing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I support =
the=20
  objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many other =
systems)=20
  is that it will be introduced in response to what some Secretary of =
State=20
  dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants who are only=20
  concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any =
good and=20
  end up with people saying =93real time reporting doesn=92t work=94. It =
is very=20
  important to manage the introduction of these projects properly and, =
in the=20
  case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a =
sufficient=20
  supply of data to the reporting =
component.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hardly any =
of these=20
  components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, =
MIS) is=20
  really viable on its own =96 which is why interoperability ought to =
have been=20
  the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such a disaster that =
it=20
  wasn=92t. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Re. the =
Moodle video=20
  you link to =96 I completely agree with the point that this is making. =
The data=20
  that the parent can see is the data which is being automatically =
managed by=20
  Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes to offline =
assignments,=20
  no-one is realistically going to sit down in the evening and key in =
the data.=20
  So the more data is collected automatically (and I think most people =
would=20
  agree that at the moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, =
is=20
  fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reporting to parents can =
become.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">@John. I =
agree that=20
  you need to show the right data to the right people in the right way =
(see=20
  comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your analysis of =
what=20
  parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you show to =
parents does=20
  not mean that you should not be tracking other types of data as well, =
which=20
  may be of interest to other people, either in raw or processed form. =
There may=20
  be aspects of pupil=92s performance and competency which the =
over-pressed or=20
  stand-in teacher is completely unaware =
of.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">@Neil: I =
agree with=20
  many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My responses=20
  inline.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>All very =
well talking=20
  bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" that can be given =
an EAN=20
  and scanned into a system. <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work =

  demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Of=20
  course I exaggerate a bit and a binary =93bleep=94 does not represent =
particularly=20
  high quality data =96 but other quantitative data like scores and =
grades are all=20
  useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever possible =96 =
and make=20
  it as easy as possible for them to do so =96 but teacher comments are =
(a)=20
  expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big =
gains=20
  for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to do =
a lot of=20
  the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my =
original=20
  point: data entry is the killer and should be automated wherever=20
  possible.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">While I =
agree that=20
  the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so =
are the=20
  buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjective buying =
decisions=20
  can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of=20
  consistency. Maths models probability really quite=20
  well.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">That is the =
problem with=20
  software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a =
subjective=20
  element that "learning<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">=20
  </SPAN></FONT>software (really useful and compelling in its own =
right)" cannot=20
  automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then =
there's a=20
  whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that =
way, but=20
  which are vital to modern life.<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So,=20
  following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see =
this as a=20
  problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this=20
  uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  would call any measure of competency a =93competency claim=94, just as =
a=20
  philosopher might talk about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to see =
a large=20
  number of competency claims from different sources showing a =
significant=20
  degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s =
competency=20
  with some degree of confidence.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Competency =
claims=20
  will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on =
a=20
  student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative data can =
be=20
  qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be reviewed and=20
  interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of =
particular=20
  assessors can also be tracked and compensated=20
for.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Also, I am =
proposing=20
  the measurement of competency as an *<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">input</SPAN></B>* and not an *<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">output</SPAN></B>* of the system. A group =
of=20
  students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction are not failed in =
their=20
  end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teaching before the =

  introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is =
misjudged in a=20
  few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision to make =
that=20
  intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on =
some=20
  kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if =
the=20
  intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might=20
  say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional=20
  judgement of the teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, =
hardly=20
  anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough =
and the=20
  pigs are left to fight for it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And=20
  finally, while some =93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, =
others are=20
  actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab =
within a=20
  particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered =
activity=20
  to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of =
advanced=20
  conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty =
humdrum.=20
  One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate =
teacher=20
  (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a =
class of=20
  students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow =
them to=20
  access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to =
offer.=20
  This is why Chris Gerry=92s approach combines business intelligence =
with=20
  flexible grouping and staffing systems.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The =
Government (quite=20
  reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but =
there=20
  comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be reasonably" =
automated. As=20
  it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more problems =
with SATs=20
  (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder and harder to align =
the=20
  capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs the =
whole=20
  norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that =
a=20
  paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing =
gave us)=20
  is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the =
paragraph=20
  differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate =
results=20
  data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as a =
=93live=94=20
  thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation, =
discussion and=20
  revision. Which what good teachers do =
anyway.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At the moment =
people are=20
  (because the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) =
teaching to=20
  the test and "standards" are going up. But is that actually educating =
children=20
  better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into work =
actually more=20
  capable (as against "competent")? I think not.<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN =

  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  don=92t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good =
test. The=20
  traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of =
original=20
  and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering =
that I=20
  learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising =
along=20
  in classrooms. OK =96 the academic essay is not appropriate to many =
students and=20
  many types of examination =96 but I think that a properly =
reconstituted=20
  examination system should be able to come up with tests which do not =
reward=20
  mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote=20
  learning.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So, are we =
chasing our=20
  tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning =
tasks?=20
  <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and =
teacher.=20
  Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =96 others =
cannot.=20
  But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by=20
  being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am =
writing=20
  this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you =
agree with=20
  the views or not).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">or does the =
VLE-emperor=20
  have no clothes after all? <FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a =
pretty=20
  skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think =
you=20
  will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the =
long=20
  delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system =
requires some=20
  kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE =
throne=20
  will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I tend to =
believe it is=20
  rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but=20
  yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is =
delivered.<FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I do=20
  not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total =
AI=20
  solution =96 rather *<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">sufficient</SPAN></B>*=20
  intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence =
always=20
  coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not =
replacing,=20
  the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store =
manager.=20
  People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up =
about=20
  dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the =
time and=20
  that the robots are fantastically useful.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I believe we =
should be=20
  doing more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to =
teachers to=20
  help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven =
dream.<FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I do=20
  not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the =
other are=20
  separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents =
(i.e.=20
  data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time=20
  it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation =
file.=20
  When I am half way through writing a document, I can save state (data =
again).=20
  And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do=20
  something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what the students have =
done, if=20
  anything?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One=20
  of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment =
(and=20
  which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =

  project) is the fact that so much learning content is =93static=94 and =
not data=20
  aware =96 it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and=20
  report.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Much=20
  of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it works in the =
background.=20
  People drown not because the sea is big but because they can=92t swim. =
People=20
  =93drown in data=94 not because there is too much data but because it =
is not=20
  understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong =
sort or=20
  in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see=20
  attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when =
their child=20
  hasn=92t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about =
the=20
  presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in=20
  itself.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">One=20
  of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces =
have become=20
  very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make =
sense of=20
  the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds =
useful.=20
  Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for =
teacher=20
  as required.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In=20
  summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =
business and=20
  education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Some=20
  data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective =
and=20
  nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right =
course.=20
  Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows =
automation), use=20
  free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can=92t see the=20
  problem.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ultimately, =
it=20
  doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should =
benefit from the=20
  efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same time, when =
it comes=20
  to offering the same level of efficiency in the service that they are=20
  responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of =
Arcadian grove=20
  where the writ of modern business management techniques does not=20
  run.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; =
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I=20
  guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more=20
  stirring!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2=20
  face=3DArial><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Crispin.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</A>&gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting=20
  agenda has a massive<BR>missing piece: where is the data that you are =
meant to=20
  be reporting on?<BR>I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher =
from=20
  <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
  w:st=3D"on">Kent</st1:place></st1:country-region>) made =
an<BR>excellent=20
  presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<BR>while Tesco=20
  analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers'=20
  purchasing<BR>preferences, schools are, in terms of business =
intelligence,=20
  still in a sort<BR>of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most =
schools=20
  have very little<BR>useful performance or competency data in their =
systems.=20
  There's a big<BR>emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is =
about the=20
  only useful<BR>real-time data that schools have.<BR>The feet of clay =
of any=20
  business intelligence system is data input - and<BR>manual input is =
never the=20
  answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in<BR>the bar-code =
reader. The=20
  revolution for schools will be when learning<BR>software (really =
useful and=20
  compelling in its own right) can report student<BR>performance and =
competence=20
  straight into central systems, which must also of<BR>course be able to =
make=20
  sense of that data.<BR>I think that until this kind of interoperable =
data flow=20
  is sorted out, most<BR>of the energy in real time reporting programme =
will go=20
  on covering up the<BR>fact that schools will simply be unable to =
deliver what=20
  has been promised by<BR>the government.<BR>Crispin.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;=20
  -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</A>=20
  [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>] On =
Behalf Of=20
  Colin J Revell<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<BR>&gt; To: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
  Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Some =
thought=20
  for comment;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling =
out=20
  secure online access to<BR>&gt; parents<BR>&gt; I find it interesting =
that=20
  there is very little "official"<BR>&gt; information about<BR>&gt; this =
that I=20
  have come across. If you search online for real time<BR>&gt; =
reporting<BR>&gt;=20
  to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<BR>&gt; Ed=20
  Balls<BR>&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Where is =
the=20
  official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<BR>&gt; whom =
and<BR>&gt;=20
  by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<BR>&gt; and=20
  I am<BR>&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the =
momentum=20
  for<BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt; change is coming from the MIS=20
  providers?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Colin<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -----Original=20
  Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</A>=20
  [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>]<BR>&gt; =
On Behalf=20
  Of Tony Parkin<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<BR>&gt; To: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
  Cc: Ray Tolley<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online=20
  Reporting in Primary<BR>&gt; Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Fergus<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring=20
  this<BR>&gt; journey<BR>&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as =
currently=20
  delineated on the<BR>&gt; Becta<BR>&gt; website.....?<BR>&gt; Ray =
might even=20
  like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<BR>&gt; offerings<BR>&gt; =
measure=20
  up against these requirements?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "What is online=20
  reporting?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to =
enable=20
  parents to receive and<BR>&gt; access<BR>&gt; information about their=20
  children's work, progress, attendance and<BR>&gt; behaviour<BR>&gt; =
when and=20
  where they want, using secure, online access.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do =
I have=20
  to do and when?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make =
the=20
  following information<BR>&gt; available<BR>&gt; to parents through =
secure=20
  online access by September 2010:<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance =
and=20
  behaviour (both positive and challenging)<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * =
Progress and=20
  attainment<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<BR>&gt; All primary =
schools=20
  are expected to achieve this by September 2012."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is =
worth=20
  noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<BR>&gt; of =
the<BR>&gt;=20
  solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<BR>&gt;=20
  aspirations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', =
though=20
  clearly invaluable<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by =
parents, is NOT=20
  part of the specification?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tony<BR>&gt;=20
  --------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Tony =
Parkin<BR>&gt; Head=20
  of ICT Development<BR>&gt; <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName=20
  w:st=3D"on">Specialist</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType=20
  w:st=3D"on">Schools</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> &amp; Academies =
Trust<BR>&gt;=20
  17th Floor, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName=20
  w:st=3D"on">Millbank</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType=20
  w:st=3D"on">Tower</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><BR>&gt; 21-24 =
Millbank<BR>&gt;=20
  <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">London</st1:City> =
<st1:PostalCode=20
  w:st=3D"on">SW1P 4QP</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</A><BR>&gt;=20
  Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<BR>&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<BR>&gt; Skype:=20
  parkintony<BR>&gt; MSN: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
  --------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;=20
  ________________________________________<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</A>=20
  [secondary-<BR>&gt; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>] =
On<BR>&gt; Behalf=20
  Of Ray Tolley [<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</A>]<BR>&gt=
; Sent:=20
  31 December 2009 12:41<BR>&gt; To: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
  Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<BR>&gt;=20
  Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi, Fergus,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I agree with Tony =
up to a=20
  point, but 'reports' are always about past<BR>&gt; experience and =
possibly=20
  previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I<BR>&gt; did a<BR>&gt; =
quick=20
  phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<BR>&gt; =
were=20
  all<BR>&gt; on holiday.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have my own ideas on the =
benefits of=20
  on-line reporting and will<BR>&gt; 'interrogate' leading known =
suppliers as to=20
  how they see on-line<BR>&gt; reporting<BR>&gt; moving in the near =
future. - I=20
  will report back shortly - probably<BR>&gt; next<BR>&gt; =
week.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<BR>&gt;=20
  this<BR>&gt; issue:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to =

  real-time reporting of progress<BR>&gt; through<BR>&gt; activities =
completed=20
  using some form of assessment software like<BR>&gt; =
'SmartAssess';<BR>&gt; 2.=20
  &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<BR>&gt;=20
  date,<BR>&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<BR>&gt; 3. =
&nbsp;The=20
  formative and possibly informal reporting available through<BR>&gt; a=20
  good<BR>&gt; e-Portfolio system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure that there =
are=20
  several other competitive products - but<BR>&gt; firstly it<BR>&gt; =
will=20
  depend on your present VLE provider.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT =
will be a=20
  good source of advice even if coloured by some<BR>&gt; degree =
of<BR>&gt;=20
  'sales pitch'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best Wishes,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ray Tolley =

  &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<BR>&gt; ICT Education=20
  Consultant<BR>&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<BR>&gt; P: &nbsp;<A=20
  href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"=20
  target=3D_blank>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</A><BR>&gt; =
B:=20
  &nbsp;<A href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"=20
  target=3D_blank>http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</A><BR>&gt; W: =
&nbsp;<A=20
  href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"=20
  =
target=3D_blank>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</A><BR>&gt; =
Winner=20
  of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</A>=20
  [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>]<BR>&gt; =
On Behalf=20
  Of Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<BR>&gt; To: <A =

  =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
  Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary =
Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Colleagues,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or =
tips on=20
  developing online<BR>&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am =
interested in=20
  examples of good<BR>&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may =
have to=20
  help avoid<BR>&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in =
any=20
  schools that<BR>&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good =
practice=20
  in this area<BR>&gt; -<BR>&gt; especially in the North West of =
England. Any=20
  help, comments, etc<BR>&gt; appreciated.<BR>&gt; I am happy to receive =

  responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<BR>&gt; would be happy =
to=20
  collate responses if anyone would be interested in<BR>&gt; receiving =
that.=20
  &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best wishes for a Happy =
new=20
  Year<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt;=20
  _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Advisory =
mailing list=20
  <A =
href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org">Advisory@talk.naace.org</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
  <A href=3D"http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory"=20
  target=3D_blank>http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory</A><BR>&gt; =
To=20
  unsubscribe send a message to <A=20
  =
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rg</A>=20
  with<BR>&gt; the body<BR>&gt; text:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; unsubscribe =
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To=20
  unsubscribe send a message to <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">Secondary-admin@talk.naace=
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  with<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; body text:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; unsubscribe =
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  YourEmailAddress<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; or: send a message to <A=20
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From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 13:19:25 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:19:25 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
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Allistair,

 

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45
years at the chalkface.

 

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is
about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come from,
where they are now and where they want to get to.

 

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual
evidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being
suddenly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

 

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the
potential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)
teachers.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure
on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written
late at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive
compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and monitored
documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

 

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's
all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

 

Hi Crispin et al

 

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and
I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy
is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's
comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong
development of this also.

 

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
time ago on this subject.

 

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise
:).

 

The second is Einstein's:

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted."

(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here,
but I still like it)

 

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
levels is this;

"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." -
Pure genius.

 

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
what goes on where. Job done.

 

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the
sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my
meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly
and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old
school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on
it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or
may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the
pub.

 

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen
square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me
to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you
can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.
I won't be joining you.

 

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not.
The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'
that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in
that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in that
exam. What about it?

 

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good
my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work
it out.

 

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.

 

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite
clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

 

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
emotion. God help us.

 

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like
our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to
category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one
even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. 

 

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is
really not likely to be the source of the problem.

 

There is only one purpose to life: To live.

Take a deep breath... and begin.

 

 

Alistair Goodwin

Hants

N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly happy to share them :-)

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Crispin Weston <mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>  

To: 'advisory' <mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>  

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM

Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Hi all,

 

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and
apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

 

@Mike. I agree.

 

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.
My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become more
like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, of
course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some
of the essential prerequisites beforehand.

 

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled
individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that
efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they
have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A
student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant
to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
being taught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just
because the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that
student's learning needs are.

 

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

 

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

 

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and
what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that
he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that
you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
extraordinarily primitive.

 

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment 

 

"the graphs ? I seriously do not 

understand where they fit in"

 

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs. 

 

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of
the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation
for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart
from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must
have mastered the necessary prerequisites. 

 

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer
gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

 

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have
to have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

 

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an
important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the
data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back
to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system
is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more
motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat
people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the
system.

 

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the
requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

 

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many
other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants
who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone
any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work".
It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly
and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

 

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it
has been such a disaster that it wasn't. 

 

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that
this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
reporting to parents can become. 

 

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency
which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

 

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My
responses inline.


All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. 

I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! 

Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and
grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher
comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One
of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to
do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
automated wherever possible.

While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
well.

That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into
your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills that
are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.

So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this
as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.

I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a
philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large
number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency
with some degree of confidence.

Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.

Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an
*output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on
subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given
some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. If
that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been
done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.
Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to me
to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment,
intervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we
all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.

And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are
actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within a
particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty
humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate
teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a
class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow
them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to
offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence
with flexible grouping and staffing systems.

The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. 

I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us)
is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as
a "live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation,
discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.

At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.

I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The
traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original
and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that
I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many
students and many types of examination - but I think that a properly
reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests which
do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
learning.

So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? 

I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily -
others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact
that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
(whether you agree with the views or not).

or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? 

I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring
the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system. 

I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.

I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, with
the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This is
all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarket
terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much
Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without
noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robots are
fantastically useful.

I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.

I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more
data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
asks the class to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the
students have done, if anything?

One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
(and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data
aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.

Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't
swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because
it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want
to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
their child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point
about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
itself.

One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have
become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make
sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for
teacher as required.

In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
business. 

Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.
Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),
use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the
problem.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should
benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same
time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service
that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort
of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniques
does not run.

I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!

Crispin.





2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk> 
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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Twitter: @NeilAdam
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Allistair,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate where you are coming =
from after
my own 45 years at the chalkface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting &#8216;thing&#8217; is =
not about
grades or graphs it is about progress and process. &nbsp;In other words =
where the
learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#8217;s progress =
through
seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? &nbsp;And =
for that
matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217; =
Meeting?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and =
could well
see the potential for &#8216;anytime annotation&#8217; of a =
child&#8217;s
progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at any point =
in time by
(at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what =
&#8216;real-time&#8217;
reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of
tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formative =
feedback along
with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborative
self-assessments as and when completed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the brink of something =
very
exciting.&nbsp; Let&#8217;s all pull together in (approximately) the =
same
direction!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair =
Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious =
rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi
Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Apologies
for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your =
recent
email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate that. =
My
comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a really useful
starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comments on =
what is
useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong development
of&nbsp;this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long =
time
ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise =
:).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;Not
everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be
counted.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(again,
apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I =
still
like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum =
levels is
this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&quot;Pick
a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out.&quot; =
- Pure
genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the =
same
pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what =
goes
on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start&nbsp;discussing =
something with
someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm saying =
/
listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits =
I and
they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I
just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the =
person
in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can =
still
make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and impercievably. =
If a
pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I make =
damn
sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it but =
that&nbsp;they still
appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this =
down.
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. =
I
certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care =
about
where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in =
mainstream
settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen square.
Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to =
develop
into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do =
this better
on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I =
won't be
joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Furthermore,
when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time =
as
everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The =
grade I got
was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I wrote on the =
paper at
the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised' that grade could =
have
got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in that exam relates =
to
little other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What about =
it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the =
lesson
like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't =
clearly the
'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement
is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it =
out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Draw
a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Just
to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils =
on
free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're an =
idiot.
The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly, but =
only
when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
am confident that my views here will be seen by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of =
line
and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, =
less
emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Isn't
it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go =
back to
administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our =
lives
aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category?
Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. =
They
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc =
Hopefully,
the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum =
review
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get =
a
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and =
that
life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this =
week
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to =
their&nbsp;REAL
neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Something
is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is =
really not
likely to be the source of the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>There
is only one purpose to life: To live.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Take
a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alistair
Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hants</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>N.B.
The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin Weston</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, =
January 05,
2010 6:57 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to
everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly =
long
essay in response.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet &#8211; but I think you =
may have
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose =
into a
brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with Chris Gerry that =
schools
should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business =
intelligence
(though not, of course, in terms of the service they offer). My =
criticism of
real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put =
in place
some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being =
happy,
fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am suspicious of what I take to be a
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People&#8217;s =
happiness
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient =
and
appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco =
and
find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am
(moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which =
ensure that
it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching =
which is
relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for =
years on
end being taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t understand or =
already
knows, just because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered accurately to =
assess and
track what that student&#8217;s learning needs =
are.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy =
comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>You
can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you =
establish how
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig =
farmer
that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell =
you
that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business =
is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The =
systems
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally =
extraordinarily
primitive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair&#8217;s comment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>the
graphs ? I seriously do not <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand
where they fit in&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being
collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined =
up.
There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making =
pretty
graphs. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of collecting the data? It =
seems to
me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting =
aside
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my =
experience
as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn =
something. Apart
from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the =
student
must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficient education system is
managing progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that =
the
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time &#8211; =
just as
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right =
bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for =
the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial =
task.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which =
people
are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being =
driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we =
have to
have systems capable of tracking students&#8217; individual =
capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its =
value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in =
education.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike =
the
pig) has an important say in what he/she needs &#8211; but this is a =
question
of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track =
it. This
links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated =
if the
system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs &#8211; and =
even
more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual =
wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they =
*<b>do</b>*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them =
in the
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out =
there
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio =
</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span><span=

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> =
but
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity =
into
these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of =
parents
as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing
effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a
relatively recent government target does not undermine the fact that,
internally, the requirement for business intelligence has been =
long-standing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger =
(as with
so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants who
are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone =
any
good and end up with people saying &#8220;real time reporting =
doesn&#8217;t
work&#8221;. It is very important to manage the introduction of these =
projects
properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring =
that you
have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting =
component.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, =
e-portfolio,
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own &#8211; which is =
why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why =
it has
been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to &#8211; I completely agree =
with
the point that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the =
data
which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online =
assignments.
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to =
sit down
in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected =
automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of =
data being
collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online =
reporting to
parents can become. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the =
right
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I =
agree with
your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is =
what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other =
types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s performance and
competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely =
unaware of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your
conclusion. My responses inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. =
<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see why not. =
Has
Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an =
understanding of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a =
bit and a
binary &#8220;bleep&#8221; does not represent particularly high quality =
data
&#8211; but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all =
useful. You
will get teachers to input comments wherever possible &#8211; and make =
it as
easy as possible for them to do so &#8211; but teacher comments are (a)
expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big =
gains for
businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot =
of the
data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original =
point:
data entry is the killer and should be automated wherever =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>While I agree that the =
definition
of some teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying =
decisions
of many shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can =
nevertheless,
when analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths =
models
probability really quite well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>That is the problem =
with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a =
subjective
element that &quot;learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </span>software =
(really
useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically =
assess and
post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, =
but which
are vital to modern life.<span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>So, following from above, I =
agree
about the subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the =
system
recognises the fact of this uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I would call any measure of =
competency
a &#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as a philosopher might talk about =
a
&#8220;truth claim&#8221;. If you start to see a large number of =
competency
claims from different sources showing a significant degree of =
consistency, you
can start to talk about that student&#8217;s competency with some degree =
of
confidence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Competency claims will very =
often
be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student =
e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by =
comments. So
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the
measurement of competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an =
*<b>output</b>* of
the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on =
subtraction are
not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra =
teaching
before the introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception =
is
misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the =
decision to
make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions =
based on
some kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if =
the
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might
say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional
judgement of the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, =
hardly
anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and =
the
pigs are left to fight for it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>And finally, while some
&#8220;soft&#8221; competencies are very subjective, others are actually =
pretty
straightforward. How good is someone&#8217;s French vocab within a =
particular
domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to =
measure
with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual =
skills,
there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive
efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who =
represents
a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a class of students =
who have
not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the =
particular
thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris
Gerry&#8217;s approach combines business intelligence with flexible =
grouping
and staffing systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The Government =
(quite
reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but =
there
comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can be reasonably&quot;
automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more
problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder =
and
harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of =
course
begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think I agree with what =
you are
saying here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text =
(which
is what criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a =
competency.
Everyone understands the paragraph differently, which has given =
governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would =
see a
competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; thing, which lived through =
a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what =
good
teachers do anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>At the moment people =
are (because
the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to =
the test
and &quot;standards&quot; are going up. But is that actually educating =
children
better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into work =
actually more
capable (as against &quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<span =
style=3D'color:
navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see any =
problem with
teaching to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic =
essay, well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do =
not
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising =
for my
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK &#8211; =
the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of
examination &#8211; but I think that a properly reconstituted =
examination
system should be able to come up with tests which do not reward =
mechanistic
teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote =
learning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>So, are we chasing =
our tails by
thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? <span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a =
false
dichotomy here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can =
be
computer assessed very easily &#8211; others cannot. But in the latter =
case,
the job of the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by
appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the =
computer
does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or =
not).<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>or does the =
VLE-emperor have no
clothes after all? <span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think in many respects =
the
VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But =
that
leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will see being =
occupied by
more capable systems which will bring the long delayed digital =
revolution to
schools. Any good software system requires some kind of =
infrastructure-content
set up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure =
bits
(plural) of the system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I tend to believe it =
is rather
naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but
yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I do not think that there =
will
ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution &#8211; rather =
*<b>sufficient</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence =
always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not =
replacing,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store =
manager.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the =
time and
that the robots are fantastically useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I believe we should =
be doing
more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to teachers to =
help
them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven dream.<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I do not think that
resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are separable. =
To
take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It
simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every time it =
launches
it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation file. When I =
am half
way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). And in a =
formal
teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, =
doesn&#8217;t
the teacher expect to see what the students have done, if =
anything?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>One of the major problems =
with
learning resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to =
address
through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so =
much
learning content is &#8220;static&#8221; and not data aware &#8211; it =
does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Much of this data does not =
cross
the human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in the background. People =
drown not
because the sea is big but because they can&#8217;t swim. People =
&#8220;drown
in data&#8221; not because there is too much data but because it is not =
understandable
or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong sort or in the =
wrong
way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attendance =
records but
they do like to receive a text message when their child hasn&#8217;t =
turned up
to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about the presentation of =
data, not
about whether data is a good thing in itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>One of the characteristics =
of
modern technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler =
to use.
Good software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present =
to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute =
parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as =
required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>In summary, my position is =
that
data is the life-blood of any modern business and education is a very =
large, very
complex, very expensive business. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Some data is very =
straightforward
and objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems =
which run
the right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can =
(because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ultimately, it =
doesn&#8217;t seem
to me to be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the =
efficiency
gains offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to =
offering
the same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible =
for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the =
writ
of modern business management techniques does not =
run.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I guess that should be =
accompanied
by sounds of more stirring!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little =
&quot;official&quot;<br>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>=

&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=

&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
&nbsp;I<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
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</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CA8ED2.DE186EE0--


From GolTG@waingels.wokingham.sch.uk  Wed Jan  6 13:44:30 2010
From: GolTG@waingels.wokingham.sch.uk (Teresa Gold)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:44:30 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] RE: [Secondary] RE: Online Reporting in Schools - the lighter side?
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk> <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>,<001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk> <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0812A@Hermes.sst.lan>
Message-ID: <BE63B3B8FED836458EC47BB1DDC9E6A70D668E@exch.waingels.wokingham.sch.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA8ED7.078C442E
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is the article
=20
"Big mother is watching you"

A web system is being rolled out that will terrify every teenager - it =
lets their parents check their progress at school at the click of a =
button.

It means parents can simply log in and see their children's attendance, =
grades, behaviour and timetable.

The password protected system is updated daily meaning parent and =
teachers can quickly deal with a drop in grades or a playground scuffle.

The Serco/CMIS ystem was tested by 50 parents with children at =
Brislington Enterprise college in Bristol and is to be rolled out to all =
secondary schools from September.  But the technology did not replace =
written reports, said school spokeswoman Corinne Breigan.

'We continue to have parents evenings and learning review days but this =
takes college home communication up a level' she added.

Father of 2 Jonathan Philips praised the scheme.  'If your children are =
doing well its good to hear about is so you can give them positive =
feedback.  If there are issues that need to be sorted you can respond =
quickly' he said


As usual it is not entirely accurate - this is a goal for all schools - =
most are working towards that and the software/vle developers are only =
now providing examples of how this might work. the issues attached to =
managing the roll out (because of security, multiple parents etc), =
accuracy in view of things like snow days where registration has to be =
sorted quickly, behaviour (trialling codes/notification words for =
parents and agreeing with staff what they mean and how they will be =
used), educating all staff about the implications of 'live' information =
for parents for them - parents do like it, but we still don't' always =
get a huge enthusiastic response. Making the timetable available is a =
great step forward and behaviour issues (we have identified behaviour as =
'negative' aspect in and out of learning time and 'achievement' as =
positive, again in and out of learning time. We have some issues with =
ours in view of time and making sure teachers do respond and participate =
to provide information. We are currently sorting out the reporting =
(again) to ensure that as this goes live (prior to printing) it is =
accurate and informative.
=20
=20
Teresa Gold
Head of Technologies
Waingels College

________________________________

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org on behalf of Tony Parkin
Sent: Wed 06/01/2010 10:41
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: Online Reporting in Schools - the lighter side?



The interest in 'real-time' reporting has even reached the popular =
press.... today's 'Metro' carries an article about a Serco/CMIS pilot in =
Bristol and promises a wider rollout.

Graced of course by a headline.. 'Big Mother is watching you'

:)

Tony

-----------------------------------------------
Tony Parkin
Head of ICT Development
Specialist Schools and Academies Trust
17th floor, Millbank Tower
21-24 Millbank
London SW1P 4QP
E:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
T: 020 7802  2306
M: 07739 436073
Skype:parkintony
IM:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
------------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of BL Mr K Buncle
Sent: 06 January 2010 09:44
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

This is a very interesting strand.

It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers =
to move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder =
audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level =
their child is either working towards at present or likely  achieve, =
pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or =
levels.  Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured =
that teaching and learning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED =
and Local Authorities have similar agendas.  I hope that I am not doing =
anyone a dis-service here.  Reporting is complex and requires thought =
and planning to meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly =
entering data in different formats.  Very often the students =
requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these =
stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to =
gain.
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many =
facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past =
few years.
As with many schools:
? We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).
? We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print them =
out on paper and post them home.
? A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and =
advice on how to write reports.
? A rolling program of updating the technology.
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house =
technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge =
investment.
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless =
and unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and =
provide the different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there =
is no impact in the classroom that helps in moving students learning =
forward then one should question the value of the process!  We are =
currently looking at what real time reporting will look like in the =
future.

The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will =
see what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a =
reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  =
Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?

We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not =
say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the =
model that we want for our students in the future.

Keith Buncle
Data Systems Leader
South Bromsgrove Community High School

________________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On =
Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

John, you bring to mind an anecdote:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they =
have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the =
computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came =
home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been =
looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"

That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all =
about.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in =
the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online =
reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply =
being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition =
that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative =
report
issued termly or annually as real time.

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well =
defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and =
carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they =
want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit =
in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking =
of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a =
parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates =
much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and =
activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their =
lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the =
extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have =
you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", =
they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class =
blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are =
pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that =
existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) =
are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want =
to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact =
needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning =
is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an =
individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed =
and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the =
n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. =
This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary =
schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up =
figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but =
the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more =
often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can =
be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should =
not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look =
at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that =
individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can =
aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code =
illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a =
relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for =
tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a =
meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad =
hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process =
data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than =
criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might =
be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =
massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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solely those of the author and do not necessarily
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e-mail does not form part of a legally binding agreement.=20
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------_=_NextPart_001_01CA8ED7.078C442E
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML dir=3Dltr><HEAD><TITLE>[Secondary] RE: Online Reporting in Schools =
- the lighter side?</TITLE>=0A=
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dunicode" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>=0A=
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18854"></HEAD>=0A=
<BODY>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr id=3DidOWAReplyText22515>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4 face=3DArial>This is the =
article</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D4 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial>"Big mother is watching =
you"<BR><BR><FONT size=3D2>A web system is being rolled out that will =
terrify every teenager - it lets their parents check their progress at =
school at the click of a button.</FONT></FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2 =
face=3Dsans-serif>It means parents can simply log in and see their =
children's attendance, grades, behaviour and =
timetable.</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif>The password =
protected system is updated daily meaning parent and teachers can =
quickly deal with a drop in grades or a playground =
scuffle.</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif>The Serco/CMIS =
ystem was tested by 50 parents with children at Brislington Enterprise =
college in Bristol and is to be rolled out to all secondary schools from =
September. &nbsp;But the technology did not replace written reports, =
said school spokeswoman Corinne Breigan.</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2 =
face=3Dsans-serif>'We continue to have parents evenings and learning =
review days but this takes college home communication up a level' she =
added.</FONT><BR><BR><FONT size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif>Father of 2 =
Jonathan Philips praised the scheme. &nbsp;'If your children are doing =
well its good to hear about is so you can give them positive feedback. =
&nbsp;If there are issues that need to be sorted you can respond =
quickly' he said</FONT><BR><BR></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr>As usual it is not entirely accurate - this is a goal for =
all schools - most are working towards that and the software/vle =
developers are only now providing examples of how this might work. the =
issues attached to managing the roll out (because of security, multiple =
parents etc), accuracy in view of things like snow days where =
registration has to be sorted quickly, behaviour (trialling =
codes/notification words for parents and agreeing with staff what they =
mean and how they will be used), educating all staff about the =
implications of 'live' information for parents for them - parents do =
like it, but we still don't' always get a huge enthusiastic response. =
Making the timetable available is a great step forward and behaviour =
issues (we have identified behaviour as 'negative' aspect in and out of =
learning time and 'achievement' as positive, again in and out of =
learning time. We have some issues with ours in view of time and making =
sure teachers do respond and participate to provide information. We are =
currently sorting out the reporting (again) to ensure that as this goes =
live (prior to printing) it is accurate and informative.</DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D4 =
face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr id=3DidSignature3854>=0A=
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Teresa Gold</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Head of Technologies</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><STRONG>Waingels =
College</STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A=
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>=0A=
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A=
<FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
on behalf of Tony Parkin<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wed 06/01/2010 =
10:41<BR><B>To:</B> advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Secondary] RE: Online =
Reporting in Schools - the lighter side?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>=0A=
<P><FONT size=3D2>The interest in 'real-time' reporting has even reached =
the popular press.... today's 'Metro' carries an article about a =
Serco/CMIS pilot in Bristol and promises a wider rollout.<BR><BR>Graced =
of course by a headline.. 'Big Mother is watching =
you'<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Tony<BR><BR>---------------------------------------=
--------<BR>Tony Parkin<BR>Head of ICT Development<BR>Specialist Schools =
and Academies Trust<BR>17th floor, Millbank Tower<BR>21-24 =
Millbank<BR>London SW1P 4QP<BR>E:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<BR>T: 020 =
7802&nbsp; 2306<BR>M: 07739 =
436073<BR>Skype:parkintony<BR>IM:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<BR>------------=
------------------------------------<BR><BR><BR>-----Original =
Message-----<BR>From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">mailto:secondary-admin@tal=
k.naace.org</A>] On Behalf Of BL Mr K Buncle<BR>Sent: 06 January 2010 =
09:44<BR>To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools<BR><BR>This is a very interesting =
strand.<BR><BR>It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can =
help teachers to move students learning forward.&nbsp; We do have =
several stakeholder audiences here. In many cases parents want to know =
what grade or level their child is either working towards at present or =
likely&nbsp; achieve, pupils need to know what they need to do to =
achieve the grades or levels.&nbsp; Teachers, Head of departments, =
Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is on track to =
meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar =
agendas.&nbsp; I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service =
here.&nbsp; Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to =
meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in =
different formats.&nbsp; Very often the students requirements for =
feedback are masked by the demands of these stakeholders and yet they =
are the stakeholders that have the most to gain.<BR>Having a competent =
person in a senior position to oversee the many facets is something that =
schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.<BR>As with =
many schools:<BR>&#65533; We have had full electronic registration =
(including lesson by lesson).<BR>&#65533; We have had regular electronic =
reporting, although we still print them out on paper and post them =
home.<BR>&#65533; A phased training of staff from using the hardware, =
software and advice on how to write reports.<BR>&#65533; A rolling =
program of updating the technology.<BR>However we also have a dedicated =
data management team and in house technical support that has taken time =
to bring together.&nbsp; This is a huge investment.<BR>The investment is =
however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and unused. The data =
team spend time analysing the information and provide the different =
stakeholders with meaningful feedback.&nbsp; If there is no impact in =
the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one =
should question the value of the process!&nbsp; We are currently looking =
at what real time reporting will look like in the future.<BR><BR>The =
discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see =
what their child has done during a particular school day.&nbsp; Is this =
a reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all =
phases?&nbsp; Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?<BR><BR>We have =
over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say that =
this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model =
that we want for our students in the future.<BR><BR>Keith Buncle<BR>Data =
Systems Leader<BR>South Bromsgrove Community High =
School<BR><BR>________________________________________<BR>From: =
secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On =
Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]<BR>Sent: 05 January 2010 =
20:00<BR>To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools<BR><BR>John, you bring to mind an =
anecdote:<BR><BR>Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their =
child what they have<BR>done in school today, with the usual response, =
"Nothing much."<BR><BR>When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, =
switched on the computer<BR>and said, "Come and see what I've done in =
school today!"<BR><BR>Weeks later, when parental access had been =
introduced, the child came home<BR>to the exclamation from the parent, =
"Wow, congratulations! I've been looking<BR>on line at your work today, =
and I'm so proud of you!"<BR><BR>That to me is a significant aspect of =
what on-line reporting is all about.<BR><BR>Ray Tolley&nbsp; FEIDCT, =
NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<BR>ICT Education Consultant<BR>Maximise ICT =
Ltd<BR>P:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/">http://raytolley.v2efo=
lioworld.mnscu.edu/</A><BR>B:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/">http://www.efoliointheuk.=
blogspot.com/</A><BR>W:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm">http://www.maximise-=
ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</A><BR>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional =
Award 2009'<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: =
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">mailto:advisory-admin@talk.=
naace.org</A>]<BR>On Behalf Of John Wasteney<BR>Sent: 05 January 2010 =
17:42<BR>To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools<BR><BR>A very interesting series of posts on =
the topic of online real time<BR>reporting. Many of the schools I am =
working with are also engaging in the<BR>same debates as expressed over =
the last day or two here.<BR><BR>I think that Ray and others are right =
when they talk about online reporting<BR>as being a new phenomenon. Most =
headteachers, teachers, education<BR>professionals initially tend to =
think of online-reporting as simply being a<BR>replacement/substitute =
for the traditional school report of old. Then of<BR>course the notion =
of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that<BR>it is =
impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative =
report<BR>issued termly or annually as real time.<BR><BR>The difficulty =
arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined<BR>in the =
mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and =
carry<BR>out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about =
what they want<BR>we begin to get a very different picture of real time =
reporting. Albeit in<BR>limited form the feedback I get from parents us =
not about APP, tracking of<BR>progress, data related to performance and =
attainment scores. Yes this<BR>recognised as being useful perhaps a =
couple of times a year (at a parents<BR>evening and then 6 months =
later), but the information they want relates much<BR>more =
to<BR><BR>What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes =
and activities)<BR>Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- =
do they eat their lunch<BR>(primary)<BR>Are they involved in extra =
curricular activities<BR>Homework tasks<BR>Timetables of activities when =
sons/daughters might need to take the extra<BR>things they need PE kit, =
cooking ingredients, etc<BR>An eye into the kind of work they are doing =
so when they ask what have you<BR>been doing in school today and they =
get the usual reply - "not a lot", they<BR>can look at some =
images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's<BR>e-portfolio =
to initiate a conversation.<BR><BR>Many of these are generic things that =
do not need to be about what each<BR>individual has contributed. The =
year 4 class teacher who posts up a few<BR>digital images (usually taken =
by pupils) of the activities on the class blog<BR>is reporting to =
parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent<BR>to =
some&nbsp; but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that =
existing<BR>systems which text or email parents if a child is absent =
without<BR>notification are well established in many schools =
now.<BR><BR>Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are =
teachers) are<BR>not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line =
graphs and pie charts<BR>that demonstrate the points scores from each =
unit of work. Parents want to<BR>know are offspring happy, engaged in =
learning, developing emotional and<BR>social confidence. If however a =
pupil does start to be noticeably<BR>under-performing, their are =
attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes<BR>unhappy, disinterested etc =
that is when a proactive personal contact needs<BR>to be made by the =
school to the teacher.<BR><BR>This leads me to my next area of concern - =
parents do know that learning is<BR>not linear and that many factors =
influence and shape the way an individual<BR>learns, they have good days =
and bad days, good lessons and not so good<BR>lessons, yet currently we =
seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and<BR>teachers are =
pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th<BR>degree. =
At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. =
This<BR>has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in =
secondary schools<BR>with significant numbers of teachers backwardly =
engineering the starting<BR>point assessment and using a loaded =
assessment dice to conjure up figures to<BR>keep Mr Ofsted =
happy.<BR><BR>As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by =
weighing them, but the<BR>current regime seems to be saying so you had =
better weigh them more often! I<BR>have done a lot of work with =
secondary schools on using APP - which can be<BR>an excellent tool if =
used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not<BR>atomise the =
learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look =
at<BR>progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that =
individuals<BR>may be better at some aspects of a subject than others =
yet we can aggregate<BR>a rounded attainment result yet having =
identified for us as teachers and<BR>shared with learners areas that =
need to be developed.<BR><BR>regards,<BR><BR>John<BR><BR>John =
Wasteney<BR>Managing Director<BR>Strategic Education Consultancy =
Ltd<BR><BR>Tel: 01455 290960<BR>Mob:07810 =
446176<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: =
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">mailto:advisory-admin@talk.=
naace.org</A>]<BR>On Behalf Of Ray Tolley<BR>Sent: 05 January 2010 =
12:40<BR>To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools<BR><BR>Crispin,<BR><BR>For once I feel that =
I must disagree with you.&nbsp; Your bar-code illustration<BR>is =
excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have =
very<BR>little useful performance or competency data in their systems." =
is a<BR>dangerous argument to make.&nbsp; On-line and real-time =
reporting is a relatively<BR>new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous =
systems out there for tracking<BR>pupils' progress and for that matter =
the feedback provided by teachers.<BR>Rather than judging the potential =
of a product by the takeup of a meandering<BR>majority, why not ask =
those schools which are focussed on exploring<BR>real-time availability =
of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc<BR>written comments =
or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?<BR><BR>Agreed, attendance figures =
are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data<BR>set, but at least, if =
parents are being encouraged to access that<BR>information it is a start =
and should be commended rather than criticised.<BR>Perhaps a little more =
support of local schools by intelligent parents,<BR>perhaps better =
communication from schools inviting parents to meet with<BR>staff in =
order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be =
a<BR>better approach?<BR><BR>BW<BR><BR>Ray Tolley&nbsp; FEIDCT, NAACE =
Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<BR>ICT Education Consultant<BR>Maximise ICT =
Ltd<BR>P:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/">http://raytolley.v2efo=
lioworld.mnscu.edu/</A><BR>B:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/">http://www.efoliointheuk.=
blogspot.com/</A><BR>W:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm">http://www.maximise-=
ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</A><BR>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional =
Award 2009'<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: =
secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">mailto:secondary-admin@tal=
k.naace.org</A>]<BR>On Behalf Of Crispin Weston<BR>Sent: 05 January 2010 =
09:49<BR>To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online =
Reporting in Schools<BR><BR>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting agenda has a massive<BR>missing piece: where is the data that =
you are meant to be reporting on?<BR>I thought Chris Gerry (an =
innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<BR>excellent presentation at =
the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<BR>while Tesco analyses =
data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing<BR>preferences, =
schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort<BR>of =
Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<BR>useful performance or competency data in their systems. =
There's a big<BR>emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about =
the only useful<BR>real-time data that schools have.<BR>The feet of clay =
of any business intelligence system is data input - and<BR>manual input =
is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in<BR>the =
bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<BR>software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can =
report student<BR>performance and competence straight into central =
systems, which must also of<BR>course be able to make sense of that =
data.<BR>I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is =
sorted out, most<BR>of the energy in real time reporting programme will =
go on covering up the<BR>fact that schools will simply be unable to =
deliver what has been promised by<BR>the =
government.<BR>Crispin.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original =
Message-----<BR>&gt; From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-">mailto:advisory-</A><BR>&gt; =
admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 =
December 2009 18:05<BR>&gt; To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Some thought for comment;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Being =
as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<BR>&gt; =
parents<BR>&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little =
"official"<BR>&gt; information about<BR>&gt; this that I have come =
across. If you search online for real time<BR>&gt; reporting<BR>&gt; to =
parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<BR>&gt; =
Ed Balls<BR>&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Where is =
the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<BR>&gt; whom =
and<BR>&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<BR>&gt; and I am<BR>&gt; wandering, in my more cynical =
moments, how much of the momentum for<BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt; change is =
coming from the MIS providers?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Colin<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
-----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org =
[<A href=3D"mailto:secondary-">mailto:secondary-</A><BR>&gt; =
admin@talk.naace.org]<BR>&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 =
December 2009 14:22<BR>&gt; To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: =
[Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<BR>&gt; =
Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fergus<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ... and&nbsp; it may be =
worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<BR>&gt; journey<BR>&gt; =
of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<BR>&gt; Becta<BR>&gt; website.....?<BR>&gt; Ray might even like to =
ask suppliers in his calls how their<BR>&gt; offerings<BR>&gt; measure =
up against these requirements?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "What is online =
reporting?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable =
parents to receive and<BR>&gt; access<BR>&gt; information about their =
children's work, progress, attendance and<BR>&gt; behaviour<BR>&gt; when =
and where they want, using secure, online access.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What =
do I have to do and when?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Secondary schools are expected =
to make the following information<BR>&gt; available<BR>&gt; to parents =
through secure online access by September =
2010:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both =
positive and challenging)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * Progress and =
attainment<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * Special needs<BR>&gt; All =
primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are =
addressed in some<BR>&gt; of the<BR>&gt; solutions being promoted to =
schools as ideal ways of meeting these<BR>&gt; =
aspirations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', =
though clearly invaluable<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by =
parents, is NOT part of the specification?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tony<BR>&gt; =
--------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Tony Parkin<BR>&gt; =
Head of ICT Development<BR>&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies =
Trust<BR>&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<BR>&gt; 21-24 Millbank<BR>&gt; =
London SW1P 4QP<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<BR>&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<BR>&gt; =
Mob:+44 07739 436073<BR>&gt; Skype: parkintony<BR>&gt; MSN: =
a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<BR>&gt; =
--------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; =
________________________________________<BR>&gt; From: =
secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-<BR>&gt; admin@talk.naace.org] =
On<BR>&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]<BR>&gt; Sent: =
31 December 2009 12:41<BR>&gt; To: advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<BR>&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Primary<BR>&gt; Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi, =
Fergus,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' =
are always about past<BR>&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching =
and learning styles.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; did a<BR>&gt; quick phone-round of =
some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<BR>&gt; were all<BR>&gt; on =
holiday.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line =
reporting and will<BR>&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to =
how they see on-line<BR>&gt; reporting<BR>&gt; moving in the near =
future. - I will report back shortly - probably<BR>&gt; next<BR>&gt; =
week.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three =
different aspects to<BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt; issue:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
1.&nbsp; The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<BR>&gt; through<BR>&gt; activities completed using some form of =
assessment software like<BR>&gt; 'SmartAssess';<BR>&gt; 2.&nbsp; The =
reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-<BR>&gt; =
date,<BR>&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<BR>&gt; 3.&nbsp; =
The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<BR>&gt; =
a good<BR>&gt; e-Portfolio system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure that there =
are several other competitive products - but<BR>&gt; firstly it<BR>&gt; =
will depend on your present VLE provider.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; PS:&nbsp; BETT =
will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<BR>&gt; degree =
of<BR>&gt; 'sales pitch'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best Wishes,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Ray Tolley&nbsp; FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<BR>&gt; ICT Education =
Consultant<BR>&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<BR>&gt; P:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/">http://raytolley.v2efo=
lioworld.mnscu.edu/</A><BR>&gt; B:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/">http://www.efoliointheuk.=
blogspot.com/</A><BR>&gt; W:&nbsp; <A =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm">http://www.maximise-=
ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</A><BR>&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership =
Regional Award 2009'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; =
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [<A =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-">mailto:advisory-</A><BR>&gt; =
admin@talk.naace.org]<BR>&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt; Sent: =
31 December 2009 09:18<BR>&gt; To: advisory@talk.naace.org<BR>&gt; =
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Colleagues,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips =
on developing online<BR>&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am =
interested in examples of good<BR>&gt; practice and any suggestions =
colleagues may have to help avoid<BR>&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I =
am also interested in any schools that<BR>&gt; colleagues could =
recommend as examples of good practice in this area<BR>&gt; -<BR>&gt; =
especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<BR>&gt; =
appreciated.<BR>&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if =
colleagues prefer that. I<BR>&gt; would be happy to collate responses if =
anyone would be interested in<BR>&gt; receiving that.&nbsp; Thanks in =
anticipation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new =
Year<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt; =
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------_=_NextPart_001_01CA8ED7.078C442E--

From sen.ict@ntlworld.com  Wed Jan  6 14:19:46 2010
From: sen.ict@ntlworld.com (Alistair Goodwin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:19:46 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
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Hi Ray

No. I agree. at least in so much as John's concept of what parents would =
find genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's =
learning is concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised =
work available online, 'cause why wouldn't you ? Personally, I like your =
anecdote and am happy to support people developing this kind of =
approach, if it's working for them. But, let's not take our eyes off the =
reality of what is really happening here in education. If the current =
climate continues to be allowed to thrive, then the funding and the =
support will not go towards supporting the development of your anecdotal =
evidence. It will pass from one 'administrator' to another, because 'all =
you would have to show for it' would be an anecdote whilst 'they' would =
be able to show 'real' benefits, ie another boring graph.

I think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like =
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how easy administration =
would be if we were all literally vegetables.

I am under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty =
bound to do what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just =
the online agenda, but the underlying principles that are masked by its =
potential development in what i see to be the wrong direction for, not =
just ICT in the UK, but potentially the state of the world.

I too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting. =
However, I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any =
water in 5 years time if we don't rant like lunatics about this now.

I'm starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to =
convey what I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody =
necessarily. I'm trying to understand why a system for generating new =
levels of uninteresting information might be sought after, whilst also =
trying to flag up something much more important about the state of our =
nation which online graphs (and yes that IS what we will probably end up =
with) will only consolidate. None of it's important. None of it. My =
child might be level 1, he might be level 10. He might be an alien. I =
don't care. He's my child. I would like to know how his life is going, =
that he and the people around him genuinely know who he is and that he =
is going to live in a  world where that's OK.

I'm upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated, =
unprofessional or invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not =
be used as a benchmark for developing online systems because it's not on =
a spreadsheet.

I'm going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never met.

Alistair


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ray Tolley=20
  To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:19 PM
  Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant


  Allistair,

  =20

  I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my =
own 45 years at the chalkface.

  =20

  However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs =
it is about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has =
come from, where they are now and where they want to get to.

  =20

  Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer =
will have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the =
actual evidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter =
not being suddenly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

  =20

  I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see =
the potential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could =
then be accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that =
time) teachers.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No =
pressure on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term =
reports written late at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a =
progressive compilation of formative feedback along with the automated =
and monitored documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and =
when completed.

  =20

  As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  =
Let's all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

  =20

  BW

  =20

  Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
  ICT Education Consultant
  Maximise ICT Ltd
  P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

  B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
  W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
  Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

  =20

  From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
  Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
  To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
  Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

  =20

  Hi Crispin et al

  =20

  Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my =
footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this =
and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket =
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's =
and other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to =
parents is a strong development of this also.

  =20

  I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a =
long time ago on this subject.

  =20

  The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or =
otherwise :).

  =20

  The second is Einstein's:

  "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that =
counts can be counted."

  (again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view =
here, but I still like it)

  =20

  The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of =
curriculum levels is this;

  "Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far =
out." - Pure genius.

  =20

  To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to =
the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term =
plan of what goes on where. Job done.

  =20

  The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing =
something with someone whether they are interested / able to understand =
what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement =
based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mutual =
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say =
it, to accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in =
which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We =
almost all do this constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class =
has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she =
gets a different angle / perspective on it but that they still appear to =
be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this down. =
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. =
I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pub.

  =20

  I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and =
care about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that =
works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station =
and Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and =
colleagues allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If =
you as a teacher think you can do this better on-line, then great. I =
accept that and am happy about it. I won't be joining you.

  =20

  Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely =
the same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it =
or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to =
whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more =
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear =
that that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to =
get that grade in that exam. What about it?

  =20

  To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned =
the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it =
wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to =
see how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. =
You'll soon work it out.

  =20

  Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference =
to me whatsoever. I never look at them.

  =20

  Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all =
pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, =
you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it =
quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

  =20

  I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line =
and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, =
less emotion. God help us.

  =20

  Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff =
just go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us =
feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and =
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER =
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily =
relinquish control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on =
top of new systems increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of =
view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the =
thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review will force these people =
out of the picture because people will again get a chance to see that =
there is potentially more to life on planet earth and that life is just =
too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this week =
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.=20

  =20

  Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online =
grades is really not likely to be the source of the problem.

  =20

  There is only one purpose to life: To live.

  Take a deep breath... and begin.

  =20

  =20

  Alistair Goodwin

  Hants

  N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but =
I am perfectly happy to share them :-)

  =20

  =20

    ----- Original Message -----=20

    From: Crispin Weston=20

    To: 'advisory'=20

    Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM

    Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

    =20

    Hi all,

    =20

    I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's =
comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in =
response.

    =20

    @Mike. I agree.

    =20

    @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have =
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose =
into a brickbat.  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that =
schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business =
intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service they =
offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration but =
of the failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites =
beforehand.

    =20

    Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, =
fulfilled individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a =
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness =
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient =
and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into =
Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock =
and I am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems =
which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he =
receives teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not required to =
sit in a classroom for years on end being taught things that he either =
doesn't understand or already knows, just because the school hasn't =
bothered accurately to assess and track what that student's learning =
needs are.

    =20

    To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

    =20

    "You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

    =20

    I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how =
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig =
farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he =
would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any =
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of =
what it is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in =
education are generally extraordinarily primitive.

    =20

    I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment=20

    =20

    "the graphs ? I seriously do not=20

    understand where they fit in"

    =20

    but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being =
collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined =
up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making =
pretty graphs.=20

    =20

    So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that =
one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside =
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my =
experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to =
learn something. Apart from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational =
aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary prerequisites.=20

    =20

    So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing =
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the =
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as =
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right =
bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms =
for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

    =20

    We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people =
are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being =
driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from =
this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students' individual =
capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is so =
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange =
that we are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing =
the same things in education.

    =20

    Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) =
has an important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of =
where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. =
This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be =
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual =
needs - and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my =
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence =
systems is that they *do* treat people as individuals, even though there =
are large numbers of them in the system.

    =20

    @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there =
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but =
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity =
into these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement =
of parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from =
implementing effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time =
reporting is a relatively recent government target does not undermine =
the fact that, internally, the requirement for business intelligence has =
been long-standing.

    =20

    I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with =
so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably =
to do anyone any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting =
doesn't work". It is very important to manage the introduction of these =
projects properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means =
ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting =
component.

    =20

    Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, =
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why =
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why =
it has been such a disaster that it wasn't.=20

    =20

    Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point =
that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which =
is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. =
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to =
sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is =
collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that at the =
moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly =
rudimentary) the richer the online reporting to parents can become.=20

    =20

    @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right =
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I =
agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact =
that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should not =
be tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to =
other people, either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of =
pupil's performance and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in =
teacher is completely unaware of.

    =20

    @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your =
conclusion. My responses inline.


    All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not =
"articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.=20

    I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of =
work demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!=20

    Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent =
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores =
and grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments =
wherever possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - =
but teacher comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always =
uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesses in using the =
internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry that =
clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original point: data =
entry is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.

    While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes =
are subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But =
complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, =
demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability =
really quite well.

    That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency =
data - much of it has a subjective element that "learning software =
(really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically =
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole =
range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but =
which are vital to modern life.

    So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not =
see this as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this =
uncertainty.

    I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as =
a philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a =
large number of competency claims from different sources showing a =
significant degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that =
student's competency with some degree of confidence.

    Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence =
(e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. =
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective =
element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The =
subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and =
compensated for.

    Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and =
not an *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to =
be weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but =
they are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on =
long division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very =
great harm has been done and the decision to make that intervention can =
be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of =
business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the =
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional judgement of the teacher - but we all know that, 90% of the =
time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into =
the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.

    And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, =
others are actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French =
vocab within a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a =
computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. =
For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of =
learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to =
ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable =
resource) should not be put in front of a class of students who have not =
acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the =
particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is =
why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence with flexible =
grouping and staffing systems.

    The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload =
through automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask =
"what can be reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach =
is creating more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload =
involved) as it becomes harder and harder to align the capability that =
pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs the whole norm vs =
criterion-referenced exam debate.=20

    I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought =
that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion =
referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone =
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the =
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would =
see a competency definition as a "live" thing, which lived through a =
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what =
good teachers do anyway.

    At the moment people are (because the current system is more =
reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are =
going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to =
the next stage of education and into work actually more capable (as =
against "competent")? I think not.

    I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good =
test. The traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real =
test of original and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone =
in remembering that I learnt more when revising for my major exams than =
in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not =
appropriate to many students and many types of examination - but I think =
that a properly reconstituted examination system should be able to come =
up with tests which do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the =
regurgitation of rote learning.

    So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce =
software-assessed learning tasks?=20

    I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer =
and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =
- others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be =
made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. =
The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my =
thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).

    or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?=20

    I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is =
a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which =
I think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will =
bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software =
system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in =
the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the =
system.=20

    I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until =
the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial =
intelligence is delivered.

    I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) =
total AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular =
task, with the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human =
teacher. This is all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher =
who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. People who =
have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about =
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the =
time and that the robots are fantastically useful.

    I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to =
learners to learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so =
hung up chasing a data-driven dream.

    I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on =
the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it =
produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style =
sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more =
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a =
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching =
context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn't the =
teacher expect to see what the students have done, if anything?

    One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the =
moment (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content =
Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" =
and not data aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and =
report.

    Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in =
the background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they =
can't swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data =
but because it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they =
are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that =
parents do not want to see attendance records but they do like to =
receive a text message when their child hasn't turned up to school. =
Quite agree. But that is a point about the presentation of data, not =
about whether data is a good thing in itself.

    One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user =
interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Good software will =
collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the teacher =
only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head =
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.

    In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive =
business.=20

    Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more =
subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on =
the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because codification =
allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and =
interpretation. I can't see the problem.

    Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that =
teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other =
services and at the same time, when it comes to offering the same level =
of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for providing, =
claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of =
modern business management techniques does not run.

    I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!

    Crispin.





    2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

    It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =
massive
    missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?
    I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
    excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that
    while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing
    preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still =
in a sort
    of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have =
very little
    useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big
    emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful
    real-time data that schools have.
    The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and
    manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the =
supermarkets lay in
    the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning
    software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student
    performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of
    course be able to make sense of that data.
    I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted =
out, most
    of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering =
up the
    fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by
    the government.
    Crispin.


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
    > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
    > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
    > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
    > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
    >
    > Some thought for comment;
    >
    > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to
    > parents
    > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
    > information about
    > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
    > reporting
    > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that
    > Ed Balls
    > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
    >
    > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
    > whom and
    > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
    > and I am
    > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for
    > this
    > change is coming from the MIS providers?
    >
    > Colin
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
    > admin@talk.naace.org]
    > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
    > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
    > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
    > Cc: Ray Tolley
    > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary
    > Schools
    >
    > Fergus
    >
    > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this
    > journey
    > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
    > Becta
    > website.....?
    > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
    > offerings
    > measure up against these requirements?
    >
    > "What is online reporting?
    >
    > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and
    > access
    > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
    > behaviour
    > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
    >
    > What do I have to do and when?
    >
    > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
    > available
    > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
    >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
    >     * Progress and attainment
    >     * Special needs
    > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012."
    >
    > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some
    > of the
    > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
    > aspirations.
    >
    > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
    > and
    > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
    >
    > Tony
    > --------------------------------------------
    > Tony Parkin
    > Head of ICT Development
    > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
    > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
    > 21-24 Millbank
    > London SW1P 4QP
    >
    > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
    > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
    > Mob:+44 07739 436073
    > Skype: parkintony
    > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
    > --------------------------------------------
    > ________________________________________
    > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
    > admin@talk.naace.org] On
    > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
    > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
    > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
    > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
    > Schools
    >
    > Hi, Fergus,
    >
    > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past
    > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
    > did a
    > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
    > were all
    > on holiday.
    >
    > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
    > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
    > reporting
    > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
    > next
    > week.
    >
    > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to
    > this
    > issue:
    >
    > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
    > through
    > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
    > 'SmartAssess';
    > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-
    > date,
    > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
    > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through
    > a good
    > e-Portfolio system.
    >
    > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
    > firstly it
    > will depend on your present VLE provider.
    >
    > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
    > degree of
    > 'sales pitch'.
    >
    > Best Wishes,
    >
    > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
    > ICT Education Consultant
    > Maximise ICT Ltd
    > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
    > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
    > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
    > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
    > admin@talk.naace.org]
    > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
    > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
    > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
    > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
    >
    > Colleagues,
    >
    > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
    > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
    > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
    > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that
    > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area
    > -
    > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
    > appreciated.
    > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I
    > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in
    > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
    >
    > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
    >
    > Fergus Reynolds
    > _______________________________________________
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    --=20

    Neil Adam
    Beacon ICT
    Twitter: @NeilAdam
    www.beaconict.co.uk=20

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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    Mobile 07720 288540
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for =
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<BODY lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue bgColor=3Dwhite vLink=3Dblue>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi Ray</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>No. I agree. at least&nbsp;in so much =
as John's=20
concept of what parents would find genuinely useful in trying to engage =
and=20
support their pupil's learning is concerned and in so much as having any =
of your=20
computerised work available online, 'cause why wouldn't you =
?&nbsp;Personally, I=20
like your anecdote and am happy to support people developing this kind =
of=20
approach, if it's working for them. But, let's not take our eyes off the =
reality=20
of what is really happening here in education. If the current climate =
continues=20
to be allowed to thrive, then the funding and the support will not go =
towards=20
supporting the development of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from =
one=20
'administrator' to another, because 'all you would have to show for it' =
would be=20
an anecdote whilst 'they' would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie =
another=20
boring graph.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I think some people genuinely would =
like schools to=20
be a bit more like supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how=20
easy&nbsp;administration would be if we were all literally=20
vegetables.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I&nbsp;am under no illusion about how =
this is=20
likely to develop. I feel duty bound to do what i can to try and head =
this off=20
at the pass. Not just the online agenda, but the underlying principles =
that are=20
masked by its potential development in what i see to be the wrong =
direction for,=20
not just ICT in the UK, but potentially the state of the =
world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I too think we could have been at the =
brink of=20
something very exciting. However, I don't think for a minute that your =
anecdote=20
will hold any water in 5 years time if we don't rant like lunatics=20
about&nbsp;this now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I'm starting to think I might just be =
rubbish at=20
email and it's hard to convey what I mean. I am not trying to disagree =
with=20
anybody necessarily. I'm trying to understand why a system for =
generating new=20
levels of uninteresting information might be sought after, whilst also =
trying to=20
flag up something much more important about the state of our nation =
which online=20
graphs (and yes that IS what we will probably end up with) will only=20
consolidate. None of it's important. None of it. My child might be level =
1, he=20
might be level 10. He might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I =
would=20
like to know how his life is going, that he and the people around him =
genuinely=20
know who he is&nbsp;and that he is going to live in a&nbsp; world where =
that's=20
OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I'm upset that that will be viewed as =
somehow=20
unsubstantiated, unprofessional or invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your =

anecdote may not be used as a benchmark for developing online systems =
because=20
it's not on a spreadsheet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I'm going outside now to hopefully =
snowball someone=20
I've never met.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Alistair</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drjt@maximise-ict.co.uk =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">Ray=20
  Tolley</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dadvisory@talk.naace.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Dsecondary@talk.naace.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 06, =
2010 1:19=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Advisory] Online =
Reporting=20
  in Schools - A serious rant</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Allistair,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I=20
  like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own =
45 years=20
  at the chalkface.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">However,=20
  this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about grades or graphs it is =
about=20
  progress and process. &nbsp;In other words where the learner has come =
from,=20
  where they are now and where they want to get =
to.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Does=20
  not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will =
have a=20
  better insight of their child=92s progress through seeing the actual =
evidences=20
  of work done and progress made? &nbsp;And for that matter not being =
suddenly=20
  surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I=20
  worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the =

  potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s progress which =
could then be=20
  accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)=20
  teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what =91real-time=92 reporting is =
about.&nbsp; No=20
  pressure on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term =
reports=20
  written late at night in a stupor of tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a =
progressive=20
  compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and =
monitored=20
  documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when=20
  completed.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As=20
  others have said, we are at the brink of something very =
exciting.&nbsp; Let=92s=20
  all pull together in (approximately) the same =
direction!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">BW<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Ray=20
  Tolley&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
8pt">FEIDCT,=20
  NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><BR>ICT=20
  Education Consultant<BR>Maximise ICT Ltd<BR>P:&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A=20
  href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">B:&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><BR>W:&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #c00000; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Winner=20
  of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: =
#b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
  lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" =
lang=3DEN-US>=20
  advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
<B>On=20
  Behalf Of </B>Alistair Goodwin<BR><B>Sent:</B> 06 January 2010=20
  12:24<BR><B>To:</B> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Advisory]=20
  Online Reporting in Schools - A serious =
rant<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi =
Crispin et=20
  al</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Apologies =
for=20
  appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your =
recent=20
  email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate =
that. My=20
  comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a really =
useful=20
  starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comments on =
what is=20
  useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong development=20
  of&nbsp;this also.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I have 2 =
favourite=20
  quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long time ago on =
this=20
  subject.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The first =
quote is=20
  obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise=20
  :).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The =
second is=20
  Einstein's:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"Not =
everything=20
  that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be=20
  counted."</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">(again, =
apologies=20
  to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I still =
like=20
  it)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The piece =
of advice=20
  I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum levels is=20
  this;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"Pick a =
number=20
  between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." - Pure=20
  genius.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To me, =
teaching is=20
  a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the same pupil as =
anyone=20
  else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what goes on =
where. Job=20
  done.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The rest =
is down to=20
  me 'teaching'. I know if I start&nbsp;discussing something with =
someone=20
  whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm saying / =
listening /=20
  struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits I and they =
have=20
  and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it down. I just =
adjust=20
  what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the person in =
front of=20
  me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can still make =
the=20
  same point. We almost all do this constantly and impercievably. If a =
pupil in=20
  the class has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I make damn =
sure=20
  he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it but that&nbsp;they =
still=20
  appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write =
this down.=20
  Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the =
time. I=20
  certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the=20
  pub.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I believe =
I am able=20
  to do this because I had a good upbringing and care about where other =
people=20
  are coming from. It's an approach that works in mainstream settings, =
SEN, the=20
  curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen square. Somewhere along =
the line=20
  teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to develop into somebody =
who knows=20
  who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do this better on-line, =
then=20
  great. I accept that and am happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I won't be =
joining=20
  you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Furthermore, when I=20
  was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time as =
everyone=20
  else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The grade I got =
was=20
  personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I wrote on the =
paper at the=20
  time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised' that grade could =
have got.=20
  However, I'm also very clear that that grade in that exam relates to =
little=20
  other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What about=20
  it?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To me, =
assessment=20
  looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the lesson like that =
if I=20
  thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't clearly the 'next =
step' in=20
  these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my judgement is, pop =
your=20
  head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it=20
  out.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Draw a =
graph /=20
  don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me =
whatsoever. I=20
  never look at them.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Just to =
make my=20
  position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils on free =
school=20
  meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're an idiot. The =
divide=20
  is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly, but only when =
I'm not=20
  staring at this damn laptop.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am =
confident that=20
  my views here will be seen by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and=20
  unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, =
less=20
  emotion. God help us.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Isn't it =
about time=20
  that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go back to=20
  administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our =
lives=20
  aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category?=20
  Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;NEVER going to work. Natural =

  administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and =
power. They=20
  will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly=20
  invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc =
Hopefully,=20
  the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum =
review=20
  will force these people out of the picture because people will again =
get a=20
  chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth =
and that=20
  life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made =
this week=20
  compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to =
their&nbsp;REAL=20
  neighbours anymore. Wake up. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Something =
is wrong=20
  and the current level of availability of online grades is really not =
likely to=20
  be the source of the problem.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There is =
only one=20
  purpose to life: To live.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Take a =
deep=20
  breath... and begin.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Alistair=20
  Goodwin</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Hants</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">N.B. The =
views=20
  expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am=20
  perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; =
PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- =
Original=20
    Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
    title=3Dcrispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk=20
    href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin =
Weston</A>=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A=20
    title=3Dadvisory@talk.naace.org=20
    href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</A>=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> =
Tuesday, January=20
    05, 2010 6:57 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> RE: =
[Advisory]=20
    Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Hi=20
    all,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s =
comments and=20
    apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in=20
    response.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">@Mike.=20
    I agree.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">@Alistair:=20
    thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have misunderstood my =
position=20
    and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat. =
&nbsp;My=20
    point is that I *<B>agree</B>* with Chris Gerry that schools should =
become=20
    more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence =
(though not,=20
    of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real =
time=20
    reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in =
place some=20
    of the essential prerequisites beforehand.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Of=20
    course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, =
fulfilled=20
    individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a =
suggestion that=20
    efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness increases =
a little=20
    when they receive a public service which is efficient and =
appropriate to=20
    their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find =
that they=20
    have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am =
(moderately)=20
    grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it =
is. A=20
    student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is =
relevant=20
    to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on =
end=20
    being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already =
knows, just=20
    because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess and track =
what that=20
    student=92s learning needs are.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">To=20
    respond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">=93</SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You can't =
fatten a pig=20
    by weighing it!=94<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how =
much and=20
    what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig =
farmer that=20
    he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell =
you that=20
    you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is =

    completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. =
The=20
    systems that we have in place for doing this in education are =
generally=20
    extraordinarily primitive.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    have some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">=93</SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">the graphs ? I =
seriously=20
    do not <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">understand =
where they=20
    fit in=94<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">but=20
    the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected =
but that=20
    it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no =
benefit=20
    in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">So=20
    what *<B>is</B>* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me =
that one=20
    of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside =
motivation=20
    for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience =
as a=20
    teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. =
Apart=20
    from *<B>wanting</B>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), =
the=20
    student must have mastered the necessary prerequisites.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">So=20
    the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing=20
    progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the =
right=20
    student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as =
a farmer=20
    gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit =
of=20
    fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms =
for the=20
    classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial=20
    task.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">We=20
    start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are =
driven=20
    through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven =
over the=20
    top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have =
to have=20
    systems capable of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. =
This type of=20
    tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so =
widely=20
    accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this =
discussion=20
    as to whether we should be doing the same things in=20
    education.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Of=20
    course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) =
has an=20
    important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question of =
where the=20
    data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This =
links back=20
    to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the =
system=20
    is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 and even =
more=20
    motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. =
The=20
    whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they =
*<B>do</B>*=20
    treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of =
them in=20
    the system.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">@Ray:=20
    I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either =
for=20
    tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio </SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">J</SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> but=20
    rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and =
quantity=20
    into these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the =
involvement of=20
    parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from=20
    implementing effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time=20
    reporting is a relatively recent government target does not =
undermine the=20
    fact that, internally, the requirement for business intelligence has =
been=20
    long-standing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so =
many=20
    other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some=20
    Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants=20
    who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do =
anyone=20
    any good and end up with people saying =93real time reporting =
doesn=92t work=94.=20
    It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects =
properly=20
    and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that =
you have a=20
    sufficient supply of data to the reporting =
component.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Hardly=20
    any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning =
tools,=20
    VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is why =
interoperability ought=20
    to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such a =
disaster=20
    that it wasn=92t. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Re.=20
    the Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with the point =
that this=20
    is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is =
being=20
    automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it =
comes=20
    to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in =
the=20
    evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected =
automatically=20
    (and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of =
data=20
    being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the =
online=20
    reporting to parents can become. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">@John.=20
    I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in =
the=20
    right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with =
your=20
    analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is =
what you=20
    show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other =
types of=20
    data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in =
raw or=20
    processed form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and =
competency=20
    which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware=20
    of.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">@Neil:=20
    I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My=20
    responses inline.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><BR>All very well =
talking bar=20
    codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" that can be given an =
EAN and=20
    scanned into a system. <SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of =
work=20
    demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Of=20
    course I exaggerate a bit and a binary =93bleep=94 does not =
represent=20
    particularly high quality data =96 but other quantitative data like =
scores and=20
    grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments =
wherever=20
    possible =96 and make it as easy as possible for them to do so =96 =
but teacher=20
    comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable =
either. One=20
    of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting =
the=20
    customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to =
have to=20
    do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should =
be=20
    automated wherever possible.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">While=20
    I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are=20
    subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But =
complex,=20
    subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, =
demonstrate=20
    surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really =
quite=20
    well.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>That is the =
problem with=20
    software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a=20
    subjective element that "learning<SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"> =
</SPAN>software=20
    (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot =
automatically assess=20
    and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range =
of=20
    "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but =
which are=20
    vital to modern life.<SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">So,=20
    following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see =
this as=20
    a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this=20
    uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    would call any measure of competency a =93competency claim=94, just =
as a=20
    philosopher might talk about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to =
see a large=20
    number of competency claims from different sources showing a =
significant=20
    degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s =
competency=20
    with some degree of confidence.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Competency=20
    claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student =
output=20
    on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative =
data can be=20
    qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be reviewed and =

    interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of=20
    particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated=20
    for.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Also,=20
    I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *<B>input</B>* =
and not an=20
    *<B>output</B>* of the system. A group of students who are perceived =
to be=20
    weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but =
they=20
    are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on =
long=20
    division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very =
great harm=20
    has been done and the decision to make that intervention can be =
quickly=20
    overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of business =
intelligence=20
    seems to me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not =
perfect, to=20
    making no interventions at all. People might say that, in the =
current=20
    environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement of =
the=20
    teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything =
happens at=20
    all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are =
left to=20
    fight for it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">And=20
    finally, while some =93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, =
others are=20
    actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone=92s French =
vocab within a=20
    particular domain? Not really that difficult for a =
computer-delivered=20
    activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk =
of=20
    advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which =
is pretty=20
    humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled =
graduate=20
    teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in =
front of a=20
    class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which =
will allow=20
    them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate =
teacher has to=20
    offer. This is why Chris Gerry=92s approach combines business =
intelligence=20
    with flexible grouping and staffing systems.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>The Government =
(quite=20
    reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but =
there=20
    comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be reasonably" =
automated. As=20
    it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more problems =
with=20
    SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder and harder =
to align=20
    the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs =
the=20
    whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought =
that a=20
    paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing =
gave us)=20
    is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the =
paragraph=20
    differently, which has given governments the opportunity to =
manipulate=20
    results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency =
definition as=20
    a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a continuous process of =
moderation,=20
    discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do=20
    anyway.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>At the moment =
people are=20
    (because the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) =
teaching=20
    to the test and "standards" are going up. But is that actually =
educating=20
    children better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into =
work=20
    actually more capable (as against "competent")? I think not.<SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    don=92t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good =
test. The=20
    traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of =
original=20
    and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in =
remembering that=20
    I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of =
cruising=20
    along in classrooms. OK =96 the academic essay is not appropriate to =
many=20
    students and many types of examination =96 but I think that a =
properly=20
    reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with =
tests which=20
    do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of =
rote=20
    learning.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>So, are we =
chasing our tails=20
    by thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? =
<SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and =
teacher.=20
    Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =96 =
others cannot.=20
    But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier=20
    by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I =
am=20
    writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, =
(whether you=20
    agree with the views or not).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>or does the =
VLE-emperor have=20
    no clothes after all? <SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a =
pretty=20
    skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I =
think you=20
    will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the =
long=20
    delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system =
requires=20
    some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated =
VLE=20
    throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>I tend to believe =
it is=20
    rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but=20
    yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is =
delivered.<SPAN=20
    style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I do=20
    not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) =
total AI=20
    solution =96 rather *<B>sufficient</B>* intelligence for any =
particular task,=20
    with the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human =
teacher. This=20
    is all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in=20
    supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. People who have =
read=20
    too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising =
robots=20
    without noticing that they are using them all the time and that the =
robots=20
    are fantastically useful.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal>I believe we =
should be doing=20
    more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to teachers =
to help=20
    them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven dream.<SPAN =

    style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I do=20
    not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the =
other are=20
    separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces =
documents (i.e.=20
    data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time=20
    it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an =
initialisation file.=20
    When I am half way through writing a document, I can save state =
(data=20
    again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the =
class to=20
    do something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what the students =
have done,=20
    if anything?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">One=20
    of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the =
moment (and=20
    which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content =
Packaging=20
    project) is the fact that so much learning content is =93static=94 =
and not data=20
    aware =96 it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and=20
    report.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Much=20
    of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it works in the =
background.=20
    People drown not because the sea is big but because they can=92t =
swim. People=20
    =93drown in data=94 not because there is too much data but because =
it is not=20
    understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the =
wrong sort=20
    or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to =
see=20
    attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when =
their=20
    child hasn=92t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point =
about the=20
    presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in=20
    itself.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">One=20
    of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces =
have=20
    become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the =
data, make=20
    sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher =
finds=20
    useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser =
etc for=20
    teacher as required.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">In=20
    summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =
business=20
    and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive =
business.=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Some=20
    data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective =
and=20
    nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right =
course.=20
    Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows =
automation),=20
    use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can=92t =
see the=20
    problem.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Ultimately,=20
    it doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should =
benefit=20
    from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same =
time,=20
    when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the =
service that=20
    they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some =
sort of=20
    Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management =
techniques does=20
    not run.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I=20
    guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more=20
    stirring!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Crispin.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" =
class=3DMsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</A>&gt;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting=20
    agenda has a massive<BR>missing piece: where is the data that you =
are meant=20
    to be reporting on?<BR>I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head =
Teacher=20
    from Kent) made an<BR>excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn =
conference,=20
    pointing out that<BR>while Tesco analyses data on virtually every =
aspect of=20
    shoppers' purchasing<BR>preferences, schools are, in terms of =
business=20
    intelligence, still in a sort<BR>of Dickensian Dark Age of =
paper-based=20
    ledgers. Most schools have very little<BR>useful performance or =
competency=20
    data in their systems. There's a big<BR>emphasis on attendance, I =
suspect,=20
    because it is about the only useful<BR>real-time data that schools=20
    have.<BR>The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is =
data input=20
    - and<BR>manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the=20
    supermarkets lay in<BR>the bar-code reader. The revolution for =
schools will=20
    be when learning<BR>software (really useful and compelling in its =
own right)=20
    can report student<BR>performance and competence straight into =
central=20
    systems, which must also of<BR>course be able to make sense of that=20
    data.<BR>I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is =
sorted=20
    out, most<BR>of the energy in real time reporting programme will go =
on=20
    covering up the<BR>fact that schools will simply be unable to =
deliver what=20
    has been promised by<BR>the government.<BR>Crispin.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;=20
    -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</A>=20
    [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>] On =
Behalf Of=20
    Colin J Revell<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<BR>&gt; To: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
    Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Some =
thought=20
    for comment;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling =
out=20
    secure online access to<BR>&gt; parents<BR>&gt; I find it =
interesting that=20
    there is very little "official"<BR>&gt; information about<BR>&gt; =
this that=20
    I have come across. If you search online for real time<BR>&gt;=20
    reporting<BR>&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references =
to the=20
    letter that<BR>&gt; Ed Balls<BR>&gt; released at BETT in Jan=20
    2008.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what =
has to=20
    be done, by<BR>&gt; whom and<BR>&gt; by when - as far as I can see =
there is=20
    more rumour than substance<BR>&gt; and I am<BR>&gt; wandering, in my =
more=20
    cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt; =
change is=20
    coming from the MIS providers?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Colin<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =

    -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</A>=20
    [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>]<BR>&gt; =
On=20
    Behalf Of Tony Parkin<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<BR>&gt; =
To: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
    Cc: Ray Tolley<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] =
Online=20
    Reporting in Primary<BR>&gt; Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Fergus<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring=20
    this<BR>&gt; journey<BR>&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as=20
    currently delineated on the<BR>&gt; Becta<BR>&gt; =
website.....?<BR>&gt; Ray=20
    might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<BR>&gt;=20
    offerings<BR>&gt; measure up against these =
requirements?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    "What is online reporting?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Online reporting involves =
using=20
    ICT to enable parents to receive and<BR>&gt; access<BR>&gt; =
information=20
    about their children's work, progress, attendance and<BR>&gt;=20
    behaviour<BR>&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online=20
    access.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What do I have to do and =
when?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<BR>&gt;=20
    available<BR>&gt; to parents through secure online access by =
September=20
    2010:<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both =
positive and=20
    challenging)<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<BR>&gt; =
&nbsp;=20
    &nbsp; * Special needs<BR>&gt; All primary schools are expected to =
achieve=20
    this by September 2012."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is worth noting that not =
all=20
    these aspects are addressed in some<BR>&gt; of the<BR>&gt; solutions =
being=20
    promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<BR>&gt;=20
    aspirations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time =
reporting', though=20
    clearly invaluable<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by =
parents, is=20
    NOT part of the specification?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tony<BR>&gt;=20
    --------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Tony =
Parkin<BR>&gt;=20
    Head of ICT Development<BR>&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies=20
    Trust<BR>&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<BR>&gt; 21-24 =
Millbank<BR>&gt;=20
    London SW1P 4QP<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</A><BR>&gt;=20
    Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<BR>&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<BR>&gt; Skype:=20
    parkintony<BR>&gt; MSN: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
    --------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;=20
    ________________________________________<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</A>=20
    [secondary-<BR>&gt; <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>] =
On<BR>&gt;=20
    Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</A>]<BR>&gt=
;=20
    Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<BR>&gt; To: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A>; =
<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A><BR>=
&gt;=20
    Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<BR>&gt;=20
    Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi, Fergus,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I agree with =
Tony up to=20
    a point, but 'reports' are always about past<BR>&gt; experience and =
possibly=20
    previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I<BR>&gt; did a<BR>&gt; =
quick=20
    phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<BR>&gt; =
were=20
    all<BR>&gt; on holiday.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have my own ideas on the =
benefits=20
    of on-line reporting and will<BR>&gt; 'interrogate' leading known =
suppliers=20
    as to how they see on-line<BR>&gt; reporting<BR>&gt; moving in the =
near=20
    future. - I will report back shortly - probably<BR>&gt; next<BR>&gt; =

    week.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are =
three=20
    different aspects to<BR>&gt; this<BR>&gt; issue:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1.=20
    &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<BR>&gt;=20
    through<BR>&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment =
software=20
    like<BR>&gt; 'SmartAssess';<BR>&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written =
by=20
    teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-<BR>&gt; date,<BR>&gt; such =
as=20
    provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<BR>&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and =
possibly=20
    informal reporting available through<BR>&gt; a good<BR>&gt; =
e-Portfolio=20
    system.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure that there are several other =
competitive=20
    products - but<BR>&gt; firstly it<BR>&gt; will depend on your =
present VLE=20
    provider.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of =
advice=20
    even if coloured by some<BR>&gt; degree of<BR>&gt; 'sales=20
    pitch'.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best Wishes,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ray Tolley=20
    &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<BR>&gt; ICT Education=20
    Consultant<BR>&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<BR>&gt; P: &nbsp;<A=20
    href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</A><BR>&gt; B: =

    &nbsp;<A href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"=20
    target=3D_blank>http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</A><BR>&gt; =
W: &nbsp;<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</A><BR>&gt; =
Winner=20
    of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</A>=20
    [mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</A><BR>&gt; <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</A>]<BR>&gt; =
On=20
    Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 =
09:18<BR>&gt; To:=20
    <A =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
    Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary =
Schools<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    Colleagues,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or =
tips on=20
    developing online<BR>&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am =
interested in=20
    examples of good<BR>&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may =
have to=20
    help avoid<BR>&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested =
in any=20
    schools that<BR>&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good =
practice=20
    in this area<BR>&gt; -<BR>&gt; especially in the North West of =
England. Any=20
    help, comments, etc<BR>&gt; appreciated.<BR>&gt; I am happy to =
receive=20
    responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<BR>&gt; would be =
happy to=20
    collate responses if anyone would be interested in<BR>&gt; receiving =
that.=20
    &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Best wishes for a =
Happy new=20
    Year<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fergus Reynolds<BR>&gt;=20
    _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Advisory =
mailing=20
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href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org">Advisory@talk.naace.org</A><BR>&g=
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ce.org</A><BR>&gt;=20
    with the body text:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; unsubscribe YourPassword=20
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    href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org">Advisory@talk.naace.org</A> =
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    <P class=3DMsoNormal><BR><BR clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR><BR>Neil =
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    href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</A>=20
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------=_NextPart_000_001D_01CA8EDB.4C57B980--



From jon.williamson@i-nfer.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 15:00:36 2010
From: jon.williamson@i-nfer.co.uk (Williamson, Jon)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:00:36 +0100
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com>
 <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>

--_000_78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5winxbeuk02excha_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the NFER has been grapp=
ling with for a while.  It is obviously true that you do not fatten a pig b=
y weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice that you have unde=
rfed it if you don't.  As has been noted in many recent reports it is impor=
tant to understand why you are assessing, or generally generating data.  Th=
e Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key purposes for ass=
essment:

*         to optimise the effectiveness of pupils' learning and teachers' t=
eaching

*         to hold individual schools accountable for their performance

*         to provide parents with information about their child's progress

*         to provide reliable information about national standards over tim=
e

All of these are important in their own right, but issues arise when one as=
sessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too much.

What we have found in attempting to address the first bullet point by creat=
ing a formative e-assessment system that generates formative qualitative in=
formation to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be used to directly =
impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info is at www.i-n=
fer.co.uk<http://www.i-nfer.co.uk>] is that a lot of other summative inform=
ation falls out along the way - information that could be used to provide m=
eaningful live data to parents.  However, as has been noted by others, ther=
e is no current structure into which this data could be inserted - one poss=
ible avenue may be the Government's much vaunted "Report Cards".

A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do not understand how t=
o use data.  That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as =
huge tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a chal=
lenge to teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve =
classroom teaching.


Jon Williamson
Managing Director

i-nfer assessment ltd
personalising assessment
www.i-nfer.co.uk<http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/>

See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 January, Stand S33

Tel: 01403 782 461
Mobile 07710 457 645
This e-mail is confidential to the addressee and may contain privileged inf=
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Registered Office: The Mere, Upton Park, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 2DQ
Company No:  05946075 (England)
VAT No: 900 0616 83



From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 06 January 2010 08:18
To: 'Neil Adam'
Cc: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Thanks Neil.

I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done and that chang=
e is a problem. I don't think that the way to introduce change is by beatin=
g teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in current =
circumstances.

My recipe for change is:

1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I believe to be cr=
itical, in close consultation with industry;
2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer whateve=
r innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;
3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that make sense to=
 them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives easier.

And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the =
current environment.

Crispin.


________________________________
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 23:36
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be ab=
le to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear th=
ey'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and =
does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


--

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in=
 the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let me kn=
ow, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward the m=
aterial to anyone else.

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the NFER=
 has
been grappling with for a while.&nbsp; It is obviously true that you do not
fatten a pig by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice that=
 you
have underfed it if you don&#8217;t.&nbsp; As has been noted in many recent
reports it is important to understand why you are assessing, or generally
generating data.&nbsp; The Expert Group report on assessment last year had =
four
key purposes for assessment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roma=
n"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to optimise the effectiveness of pupils&#8217; learning and
teachers&#8217; teaching<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roma=
n"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to hold individual schools accountable for their performance=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roma=
n"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide parents with information about their child&#8217;=
s
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1=
 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roma=
n"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide reliable information about national standards ove=
r
time<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/a></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>All of these are important in their own right, but issues ar=
ise when
one assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too m=
uch.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What we have found in attempting to address the first bullet
point by creating a formative e-assessment system that generates formative =
qualitative
information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be used to directl=
y
impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info is at </span>=
<a
href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk"><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.co.uk</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>] is
that a lot of other summative information falls out along the way &#8211;
information that could be used to provide meaningful live data to parents.&=
nbsp;
However, as has been noted by others, there is no current structure into wh=
ich
this data could be inserted &#8211; one possible avenue may be the Governme=
nt&#8217;s
much vaunted &#8220;Report Cards&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do not
understand how to use data.&nbsp; That is often the fault of data providers=
 for
providing it as huge tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation,=
 but
also a challenge to teachers that they should be making better use of data =
to
improve classroom teaching. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jon Williamson<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Managing Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>i-nfer assessment ltd<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>personalising assessment<o:p></o:p></=
span></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/"><span lang=3DEN-U=
S
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.co=
.uk</span></a><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 January, S=
tand
S33 <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Tel: 01403 782 461<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mobile 07710 457 645<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Th=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
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color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Weston<b=
r>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 08:18<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>Thanks Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done an=
d
that change is a problem. I don&#8217;t think that the way to introduce cha=
nge
is by beating teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible=
 in
current circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>My recipe for change is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I beli=
eve
to be critical, in close consultation with industry;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to o=
ffer
whatever innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that m=
ake
sense to them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives eas=
ier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what w=
orks
in the current environment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 23:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><span
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Great response Crispin<br>
<br>
Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be ab=
le
to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear they'=
ll
stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and does a=
dd
some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(<br>
<br>
Neil<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for tho=
se
in the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward the
material to anyone else.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

--_000_78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5winxbeuk02excha_--

From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 15:40:09 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:40:09 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] FW: Cornell Improves Funding, Recruitment & Retention with Business Intelligence
Message-ID: <008501ca8ee6$874ea160$95ebe420$@co.uk>

In the light of recent discussions re data-mining and real-time reporting, I
wonder if the Webinar below might be of interest to anyone.  Unfortunately I
am away on a business meeting that day.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: Campus Technology Webinars [mailto:CT@1105Info.com] 
Sent: 06 January 2010 15:23
To: Ray Tolley
Subject: Cornell Improves Funding, Recruitment & Retention with Business
Intelligence

FREE 60-Minute Webinar: Cornell Improves Access to Data, Boosting
Institutional Effectiveness
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Time: 11 AM (PST), 2 PM (EST)

Yes! I would like to view this free webinar:
http://www.1105info.com/t.do?id=4006065:17769873

Like many other schools, your institution may be struggling with funding,
recruitment and retention, and institutional effectiveness.  Join us for
this free webinar to hear how Cornell University uses a business
intelligence solution that provides easy access to integrated data and how
it has positively impacted their institution.  

Learn how you can:
- Create an integrated system that gathers and stores data from multiple
sources 
- Foster collaboration among departments through data-sharing
- Put timely and accurate information and analytics in the hands of
institutional decision-makers

Register now to view this free webinar:
http://www.1105info.com/t.do?id=4006066:17769873

Thank you, 
Campus Technology

Sponsored by: Oracle

Follow us on Twitter: http://www.1105info.com/t.do?id=4006067:17769873



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From crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 15:51:08 2010
From: crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk (Crispin Weston)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:51:08 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com> <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT> <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <BD003AD053604C919FCE51D156B88681@DEVELOPMENT>

<<That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as huge tables
of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a challenge to
teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve classroom
teaching. >>
I suspect that teachers are often made to feel inadequate because they
cannot use huge chunks of data when in fact the failure is one of user
interface.
I reckon the challenge is to software providers to present codified data to
teachers in timely, digestible and easily understandable chunks.


From Mike.Cameron@ssatrust.org.uk  Wed Jan  6 16:35:28 2010
From: Mike.Cameron@ssatrust.org.uk (Mike Cameron)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:35:28 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com>
 <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT>
 <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <86BA8D34DFEAF74B838E4882BBD3902730787E9DD6@Hermes.sst.lan>

--_000_86BA8D34DFEAF74B838E4882BBD3902730787E9DD6Hermessstlan_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

Its probably not mandatory to start with a pithy aphorism, but I will. I a=
m reminded of the time when the Met Office (topical as well) installed a b=
rand new super-computer. They were so proud that their new computer would =
insure that in future their forecast fro the next day would be accurate 70=
% of the time. Their bubble was slightly fdeflated when it was pinted out =
that if you forecast that the weather tomorrow would be the same as today,=
 then you would be right 72% of the time. I hestitate to get get into an e=
rror bars discussion with someone from NFER, but I guess that if you said =
that a students NC Level was their age - 3, divided by 2 then you would no=
t be to far away (perhaps even closer than the Met Office super-computer).=


Looking at the four purposes, whilst there would be some overlap, they req=
uire substantially different datasets in order to perform any sensible ana=
lysis upon which to base future actions. I sometimes think that the real p=
roblem is that there is a belief that either there is a magic dataset that=
 will cover all these issues, or that where different datasets are collect=
ed it is possible, or even desirable, to reconcile them with each other. W=
ith my teacher hat on I want to know if my daughter is progressing as well=
 as she would be expected to against peer norms. As her parent I just want=
 to know she is happy at school and trying hard. As a tax-payer I want to =
know that her school is being effective in its spending of my money. All t=
hese things are possible to measure, some subjectively, but I don't mind t=
hat - if I'm concerned enough to look online to see how my daughter is get=
ting on, I'm probably able to understand the distinction between, and vali=
dity of subjective and objective data sets.

I'm not really sure I actually care about the national standards over time=
 one - what we need to learn now is soooo different what I needed to learn=
 that any comparison between now and 30 years ago is quite facile (I'm get=
ting in the ranting mood as well!).

The real danger here is that=20as this need for online reporting has been =
centrally directed (which does nto necessarily mean it is the wrong thing =
to do - personally I support it) then the dataset requirements are also dr=
iven from that direction, and there is a perceived need for any assessment=
 methodolgy to fit in with and provide data for that end purpose. So essen=
tially we all end up providing data to ensure that we can prove in 30 year=
s time that A-Level standards are better/worse/the same as they are now. T=
hat is not going to encourage system providers to produce systems that ena=
ble my daughters school to tell me if she is happy in her lessons.

This is a huge and incredibly worthwhile and important discussion, with no=
 single answer.

Regards

Mike

(The views expressed in this email are definitely mine - anyone else is mo=
re than welcome to claim them as well)

Telephone: +44 (0)20 7802 0658 +44 (0)20 7802 0658
Mobile:      +44 (0)7866 747280
Email:       mike.cameron@ssatrust.org.uk<mailto:mike.cameron@ssatrust.org=
.uk>

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]=
 On Behalf Of Williamson, Jon
Sent: 06 January 2010 15:01
To: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Hi all,

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the NFER has been grap=
pling with for a while.  It is obviously true that you do not fatten a pig=
 by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice that you have u=
nderfed it if you don't.  As has been noted in many recent reports it is i=
mportant to understand why you are assessing, or generally generating data=
.  The Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key purposes f=
or assessment:

*         to optimise the effectiveness of pupils' learning and teachers' =
teaching

*         to hold individual schools accountable for their performance

*         to provide parents with information about their child's progress=


*         to provide reliable information about national standards over ti=
me

All of these are important in their own right, but issues arise when one a=
ssessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too much.=


What we have found in attempting to address the first bullet point by crea=
ting a formative e-assessment system that generates formative qualitative =
information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be used to direct=
ly impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info is at www=
.i-nfer.co.uk<http://www.i-nfer.co.uk>] is that a lot of other summative i=
nformation falls out along the way - information that could be used to pro=
vide meaningful live data to parents.  However, as has been noted by other=
s, there is no current structure into which this data could be inserted - =
one possible avenue may be the Government's much vaunted "Report Cards".

A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do not understand how =
to use data.  That is often the fault of data providers for providing it a=
s huge tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a c=
hallenge to teachers that they should be making better use of data to impr=
ove classroom teaching.


Jon Williamson
Managing Director

i-nfer assessment ltd
personalising assessment
www.i-nfer.co.uk<http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/>

See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 January, Stand S33

Tel: 01403 782 461
Mobile 07710 457 645
This e-mail is confidential to the addressee and may contain privileged in=
formation.  If you are not the addressee you are not permitted to use or c=
opy this e-mail or its attachments nor may you disclose the same to any th=
ird party.  If this has been sent to you in error please notify us as soon=
 as possible. i-nfer Assessment Limited (i-nfer) reserves the right to int=
ercept and read e-mails sent or received by our employees.  If you do not =
wish for your communications to be subjected to such scrutiny, you should =
not communicate via this e-mail system.  i-nfer endeavours to exclude viru=
ses from our data but it is the obligation of the recipient to check any a=
ttachments for viruses. Opinions, conclusions and other information contai=
ned in this message that do not relate to the official business of i-nfer,=
 or are personal to the individual sender, shall not be understood as endo=
rsed by i-nfer and no liability will be accepted.  Any legally binding agr=
eement resulting from its content must be made separately in a printed med=
ium.
Registered Office: The Mere, Upton Park, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 2DQ
Company No:  05946075 (England)
VAT No: 900 0616 83



From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]=
 On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 06 January 2010 08:18
To: 'Neil Adam'
Cc: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Thanks Neil.

I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done and that chan=
ge is a problem. I don't think that the way to introduce change is by beat=
ing teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in curre=
nt circumstances.

My recipe for change is:

1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I believe to be c=
ritical, in close consultation with industry;
2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer whatev=
er innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;
3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that make sense t=
o them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives easier.

And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the=
 current environment.

Crispin.


________________________________
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]=
 On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 23:36
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be a=
ble to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear =
they'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed a=
nd does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


--

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vl=
ink=3Dblue><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_Mail=
EndCompose"><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:blue'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>Its probably not m=
andatory to start with a pithy aphorism, but I will. I am reminded of the =
time when the Met Office (topical as well) installed a brand new super-com=
puter. They were so proud that their new computer would insure that in fut=
ure their forecast fro the next day would be accurate 70% of the time. The=
ir bubble was slightly fdeflated when it was pinted out that if you foreca=
st that the weather tomorrow would be the same as today, then you would be=
 right 72% of the time. I hestitate to get get into an error bars discussi=
on with someone from NFER, but I guess that if you said that a students NC=
 Level was their age - 3, divided by 2 then you would not be to far away (=
perhaps even closer than the Met Office super-computer).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:blue'>Looking at the four purposes, whilst there would be some overlap=
, they require substantially different datasets in order to perform any se=
nsible analysis upon which to base future actions. I sometimes think that =
the real problem is that there is a belief that either there is a magic da=
taset that will cover all these issues, or that where different datasets a=
re collected it is possible, or even desirable, to reconcile them with eac=
h other. With my teacher hat on I want to know if my daughter is progressi=
ng as well as she would be=20expected to against peer norms. As her parent=
 I just want to know she is happy at school and trying hard. As a tax-paye=
r I want to know that her school is being effective in its spending of my =
money. All these things are possible to measure, some subjectively, but I =
don&#8217;t mind that &#8211; if I&#8217;m concerned enough to look online=
 to see how my daughter is getting on, I&#8217;m probably able to understa=
nd the distinction between, and validity of subjective and objective data =
sets. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>I&#8217;m not really sure I actually car=
e about the national standards over time one &#8211; what we need to learn=
 now is soooo different what I needed to learn that any comparison between=
 now and 30 years ago is quite facile (I&#8217;m getting in the ranting mo=
od as well!).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>The real danger here is that=
 as this need for online reporting has been centrally directed (which does=
 nto necessarily mean it is the wrong thing to do &#8211; personally I sup=
port it) then the dataset requirements are also driven from that direction=
, and there is a perceived need for any assessment methodolgy to fit in wi=
th and provide data for that end purpose. So essentially we all end up pro=
viding data to ensure that we can prove in 30 years time that A-Level stan=
dards are better/worse/the same as they are now. That is not going to enco=
urage system providers to produce systems that enable my daughters school =
to tell me if she is happy in her lessons.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>This =
is a huge and incredibly worthwhile and important discussion, with no sing=
le answer. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D'>Mike <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(The views e=
xpressed in this email are definitely mine &#8211; anyone else is more tha=
n welcome to claim them as well)</span></i><i><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></=
i></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>Telephone: +44 (0)</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>20&nbsp;7802 0658</span=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D'> </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:white'>+44 (0)20 7802 0658<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>Mobile:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +44 (0)7866 747280=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:mike.cameron@ssatrust.org.uk"=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>mike.=
cameron@ssatrust.org.uk</span></a><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'bo=
rder:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Williamson, =
Jon<br><b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 15:01<br><b>To:</b> 'advisory'<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is a very interest=
ing discussion, and one that the NFER has been grappling with for a while.=
&nbsp; It is obviously true that you do not fatten a pig by weighing it; b=
ut by the same token, you may not notice that you have underfed it if you =
don&#8217;t.&nbsp; As has been noted in many recent reports it is importan=
t to understand why you are assessing, or generally generating data.&nbsp;=
 The Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key purposes for=
 assessment:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'tex=
t-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-=
list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>to optimise the effectiveness of pupils&#8217; learning and teachers=
&#8217; teaching<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D=
'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'=
mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif=
]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'>to hold individual schools accountable for their performance<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&mi=
ddot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>to provide=
 parents with information about their child&#8217;s progress<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:=
l0 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span=
 style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>to provide reliable =
information about national standards over time<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>All of these are important in their own right, but issues arise when=
 one assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too=
 much.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What we have found in attempting t=
o address the first bullet point by creating a formative e-assessment syst=
em that generates formative qualitative information to teachers (not graph=
s and tables) that can be used to directly impact teaching [declare a comm=
ercial interest, but more info is at </span><a href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.c=
o.uk"><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=
www.i-nfer.co.uk</span></a><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>] is that a lot of other summative info=
rmation falls out along the way &#8211; information that could be used to =
provide meaningful live data to parents.&nbsp; However, as has been noted =
by others, there is no current structure into which this data could be ins=
erted &#8211; one possible avenue may be the Government&#8217;s much vaunt=
ed &#8220;Report Cards&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A big issu=
es in schools today is that many teachers do not understand how to use dat=
a.&nbsp; That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as hug=
e tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a challe=
nge to teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve c=
lassroom teaching. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&=
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;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jon Williamson<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Managing Director<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>i-nfer ass=
essment ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'>personalising assessment<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><a href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.co.uk</span></=
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le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><=
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=20#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=
From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admi=
n@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Weston<br><b>Sent:</b> 06 Ja=
nuary 2010 08:18<br><b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'<br><b>Cc:</b> 'advisory'<br><b>=
Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color=
:navy'>Thanks Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I am sure you are right that it i=
s all easier said than done and that change is a problem. I don&#8217;t th=
ink that the way to introduce change is by beating teachers round the head=
 to do what may well be the impossible in current circumstances.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"=
;color:navy'>My recipe for change is:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";col=
or:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>1. Put in pla=
ce the key interoperability standards which I believe to be critical, in c=
lose consultation with industry;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:na=
vy'>2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer wh=
atever innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>3. Free teachers and school leaders =
to buy the solutions that make sense to them, deliver better learning to c=
hildren and make their lives easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";colo=
r:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>And in the mea=
ntime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the current envir=
onment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;pa=
dding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D=
'text-align:center'><span lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3D=
center></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> a=
dvisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br><b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 23:36<br><b>To:</b=
> Crispin Weston<br><b>Cc:</b> advisory<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Grea=
t response Crispin<br><br>Still not sure that people are able to see the b=
ig enough picture nto be able to use data-driven system responsibly in the=
 way you describe. I fear they'll stick with the=20easy tick-box stuff tha=
t can be readily processed and does add some value but largely brings syst=
ems in to disrepute :(<br><br>Neil<br><br><br>-- <br><br>Neil Adam<br>Beac=
on ICT<br>Twitter: @NeilAdam<br><a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www=
.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br><br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>Mobi=
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--_000_86BA8D34DFEAF74B838E4882BBD3902730787E9DD6Hermessstlan_--

From N.R.Stanley@ljmu.ac.uk  Wed Jan  6 16:38:10 2010
From: N.R.Stanley@ljmu.ac.uk (Stanley, Neil)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:38:10 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com> <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT> <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg> <BD003AD053604C919FCE51D156B88681@DEVELOPMENT>
Message-ID: <B26664E2AC3E94489327B056792690C7CB1B14@exch8.jmu.ac.uk>

Maybe it's because it is data and not *information* - context isn't
apparently relevant to or promptly derivable by the individual teacher;
no ownership.

Paper maps (well Google maps printed out) are relevant to the way I
operate so are owned by me - wouldn't want a sat-nav so I don't own one.
Same data on both.

Teachers need to own the information - if they've never collected their
own in any diligent manner (and experiences in mentoring trainees on
placement indicates that this has been a problem) then they won't want
someone else's format. If the system aids the collection, storage and
analysis and they previously did this then they may accept it.

Neil


Neil Stanley MA(Ed) BSc AUS PGCE FHEA MBCS
w: www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/edcnstan & www.stanleyweb.co.uk

All we need is the perception of choice - real choice just confuses us.


-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 06 January 2010 15:51
To: 'Williamson, Jon'; 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

<<That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as huge
tables
of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a challenge to
teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve
classroom
teaching. >>
I suspect that teachers are often made to feel inadequate because they
cannot use huge chunks of data when in fact the failure is one of user
interface.
I reckon the challenge is to software providers to present codified data
to
teachers in timely, digestible and easily understandable chunks.

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From neil@beaconict.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 17:04:10 2010
From: neil@beaconict.co.uk (Neil Adam)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:04:10 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
 <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>

--0016e6d7df768217be047c81f18d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ray

It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" for
people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be
useless when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless yo=
u
have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically
"personalise" without much user input, plus "business intelligence" systems
that can then trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such
learning plans then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as
any kind of credible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if
you have a family, but many teachers have other things to do in the evening=
s
than update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to
please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their
child did at school *today*.

The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they have
opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, not
last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to
supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that
what parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened i=
n
the classroom.)

Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as
he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust
teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't
updated their learning plans and assessments :(

Yep, it genuinely worries me

Neil

2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>

>  Allistair,
>
>
>
> I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 4=
5
> years at the chalkface.
>
>
>
> However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about grades or graphs=
 it is
> about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come fr=
om,
> where they are now and where they want to get to.
>
>
>
> Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer wil=
l
> have a better insight of their child=92s progress through seeing the actu=
al
> evidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being
> suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?
>
>
>
> I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the
> potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s progress which coul=
d then be
> accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)
> teachers.  This, to me is what =91real-time=92 reporting is about.  No pr=
essure
> on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports writt=
en
> late at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive
> compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and monitored
> documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.
>
>
>
> As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let=
=92s
> all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!
>
>
>
> BW
>
>
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
>
> *From:* advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] *On Behalf Of *Alistair Goodwin
> *Sent:* 06 January 2010 12:24
> *To:* Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
> *Subject:* [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
>
>
>
> Hi Crispin et al
>
>
>
> Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
> footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this a=
nd
> I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analog=
y
> is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and othe=
r's
> comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a stro=
ng
> development of this also.
>
>
>
> I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
> time ago on this subject.
>
>
>
> The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or
> otherwise :).
>
>
>
> The second is Einstein's:
>
> "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that count=
s
> can be counted."
>
> (again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here,
> but I still like it)
>
>
>
> The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
> levels is this;
>
> "Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." =
-
> Pure genius.
>
>
>
> To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
> same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
> what goes on where. Job done.
>
>
>
> The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
> with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
> saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
> traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
> write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate t=
he
> sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking'=
 my
> meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantl=
y
> and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my o=
ld
> school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective=
 on
> it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may=
 or
> may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
> the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at =
the
> pub.
>
>
>
> I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
> about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
> mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananm=
en
> square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed=
 me
> to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think y=
ou
> can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about
> it. I won't be joining you.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely th=
e
> same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or n=
ot.
> The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
> wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalise=
d'
> that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade i=
n
> that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in th=
at
> exam. What about it?
>
>
>
> To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
> lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
> clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how go=
od
> my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon wo=
rk
> it out.
>
>
>
> Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to m=
e
> whatsoever. I never look at them.
>
>
>
> Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
> pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
> you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quit=
e
> clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.
>
>
>
> I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
> unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
> emotion. God help us.
>
>
>
> Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff jus=
t
> go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel li=
ke
> our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according=
 to
> category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
> administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. T=
hey
> will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
> invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
> Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
> Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because peop=
le
> will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
> planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
> progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No =
one
> even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.
>
>
>
> Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades
> is really not likely to be the source of the problem.
>
>
>
> There is only one purpose to life: To live.
>
> Take a deep breath... and begin.
>
>
>
>
>
> Alistair Goodwin
>
> Hants
>
> N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I a=
m
> perfectly happy to share them :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> *To:* 'advisory' <advisory@talk.naace.org>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s comments=
 and
> apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.
>
>
>
> @Mike. I agree.
>
>
>
> @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have misunderst=
ood
> my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickba=
t.
>  My point is that I **agree** with Chris Gerry that schools should become
> more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though no=
t,
> of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
> reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place som=
e
> of the essential prerequisites beforehand.
>
>
>
> Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfill=
ed
> individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion tha=
t
> efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness increases a li=
ttle
> when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
> their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that th=
ey
> have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
> grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. =
A
> student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relev=
ant
> to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
> being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already knows,=
 just
> because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess and track what =
that
> student=92s learning needs are.
>
>
>
> To respond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:
>
>
>
> =93You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!=94
>
>
>
> I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much a=
nd
> what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer tha=
t
> he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you th=
at
> you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
> completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
> systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
> extraordinarily primitive.
>
>
>
> I have some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment
>
>
>
> =93the graphs ? I seriously do not
>
> understand where they fit in=94
>
>
>
> but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
> that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
> benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.
>
>
>
> So what **is** the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one
> of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivat=
ion
> for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
> teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apar=
t
> from **wanting** to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student
> must have mastered the necessary prerequisites.
>
>
>
> So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
> progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
> student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as a fa=
rmer
> gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
> fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
> classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.
>
>
>
> We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
> driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being drive=
n
> over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we ha=
ve
> to have systems capable of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. =
This
> type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value=
 so
> widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
> discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.
>
>
>
> Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has =
an
> important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question of where th=
e
> data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links b=
ack
> to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the syste=
m
> is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 and even more
> motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
> whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they **do**
> treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them =
in
> the system.
>
>
>
> @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (eithe=
r
> for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
> difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
> systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents a=
s a
> pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effecti=
ve
> internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
> recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, th=
e
> requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.
>
>
>
> I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so ma=
ny
> other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
> Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servan=
ts
> who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyo=
ne
> any good and end up with people saying =93real time reporting doesn=92t w=
ork=94.
> It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properl=
y
> and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you hav=
e a
> sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.
>
>
>
> Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learnin=
g
> tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is why
> interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why i=
t
> has been such a disaster that it wasn=92t.
>
>
>
> Re. the Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with the point th=
at
> this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is bei=
ng
> automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it come=
s
> to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
> evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
> (and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
> being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
> reporting to parents can become.
>
>
>
> @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people i=
n
> the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
> analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what yo=
u
> show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types=
 of
> data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
> processed form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and compete=
ncy
> which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.
>
>
>
> @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. M=
y
> responses inline.
>
>
> All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
> that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
>
> I don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
> demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
>
> Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary =93bleep=94 does not represent
> particularly high quality data =96 but other quantitative data like score=
s and
> grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
> possible =96 and make it as easy as possible for them to do so =96 but te=
acher
> comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. O=
ne
> of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
> customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have t=
o
> do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
> automated wherever possible.
>
> While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
> subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
> subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
> surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
> well.
>
> That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data =
-
> much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really usefu=
l
> and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post in=
to
> your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills t=
hat
> are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life=
.
>
> So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see
> this as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this
> uncertainty.
>
> I would call any measure of competency a =93competency claim=94, just as =
a
> philosopher might talk about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to see a l=
arge
> number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
> degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s compe=
tency
> with some degree of confidence.
>
> Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
> student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
> Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
> can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
> tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated fo=
r.
>
> Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an **input** and no=
t
> an **output** of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be
> weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they
> are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long
> division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great h=
arm
> has been done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly
> overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of business intellige=
nce
> seems to me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to
> making no interventions at all. People might say that, in the current
> environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement of the
> teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happen=
s at
> all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to
> fight for it.
>
> And finally, while some =93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, othe=
rs are
> actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab wit=
hin a
> particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
> activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
> advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pre=
tty
> humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled gradu=
ate
> teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front o=
f a
> class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will al=
low
> them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has=
 to
> offer. This is why Chris Gerry=92s approach combines business intelligenc=
e
> with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
>
> The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload throug=
h
> automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
> reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating mo=
re
> and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
> harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-yea=
r.
> That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
>
> I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that =
a
> paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave =
us)
> is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
> differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
> results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition =
as
> a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderatio=
n,
> discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
>
> At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist=
,
> criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But i=
s
> that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
> education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
> think not.
>
> I don=92t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test.=
 The
> traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origin=
al
> and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at
> I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
> along in classrooms. OK =96 the academic essay is not appropriate to many
> students and many types of examination =96 but I think that a properly
> reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests whi=
ch
> do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
> learning.
>
> So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
> software-assessed learning tasks?
>
> I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
> teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =96
> others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
> very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The f=
act
> that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
> (whether you agree with the views or not).
>
> or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
>
> I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
> pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
> think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will brin=
g
> the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
> requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
> vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system=
.
>
> I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
> much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
> delivered.
>
> I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) tota=
l
> AI solution =96 rather **sufficient** intelligence for any particular tas=
k,
> with the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. T=
his
> is all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in
> supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read
> too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots
> without noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robot=
s
> are fantastically useful.
>
> I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners =
to
> learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing =
a
> data-driven dream.
>
> I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
> other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
> documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (mor=
e
> data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
> initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
> save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
> asks the class to do something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what =
the
> students have done, if anything?
>
> One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
> (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packagi=
ng
> project) is the fact that so much learning content is =93static=94 and no=
t data
> aware =96 it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
>
> Much of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it works in the
> background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can=
=92t
> swim. People =93drown in data=94 not because there is too much data but b=
ecause
> it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
> wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not wa=
nt
> to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
> their child hasn=92t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a poin=
t
> about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
> itself.
>
> One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces ha=
ve
> become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, mak=
e
> sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
> useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc =
for
> teacher as required.
>
> In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
> business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
> business.
>
> Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective
> and nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right
> course. Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows
> automation), use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I ca=
n=92t
> see the problem.
>
> Ultimately, it doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers
> should benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at
> the same time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in =
the
> service that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit
> some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management
> techniques does not run.
>
> I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
>
> Crispin.
>
>
>
>  2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasi=
ng
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report stude=
nt
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, mo=
st
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
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> Neil Adam
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--=20

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in
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know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward the
material to anyone else.

--0016e6d7df768217be047c81f18d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ray<br><br>It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take &quot=
;forever&quot; for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, =
or they will be useless when it comes to working with young people in their=
 care. Unless you have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow autom=
atically &quot;personalise&quot; without much user input, plus &quot;busine=
ss intelligence&quot; systems that can then trawl and analyse learning outc=
omes and progress that such learning plans then derive, the workload agreem=
ent will just evaporate as any kind of credible means of treating teachers =
as people. I don&#39;t know if you have a family, but many teachers have ot=
her things to do in the evenings than update the minutiae of plans and anno=
tate all their kids work just to please some pushy parents who want to be a=
ble to see instantly what their child did at school *today*.<br>
<br>The problem is that the politicians have said &quot;real time&quot;, so=
 they have opened Pandora&#39;s box. People will expect up-to-date info abo=
ut today, not last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going t=
o be able to supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge =
it such that what parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to wh=
at happened in the classroom.)<br>
<br>Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, bu=
t as he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don&#39;=
t trust teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they have=
n&#39;t updated their learning plans and assessments :(<br>
<br>Yep, it genuinely worries me<br><br>Neil<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximis=
e-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0p=
t 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">









<div bgcolor=3D"white" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Allistair,</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after
my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about
grades or graphs it is about progress and process. =A0In other words where =
the
learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get to.</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child=92s progress through
seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? =A0And for that
matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well
see the potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s
progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at any point in t=
ime by
(at that time) teachers.=A0 This, to me is what =91real-time=92
reporting is about.=A0 No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of
tiredness.=A0 But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback al=
ong
with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborative
self-assessments as and when completed.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">As others have said, we are at the brink of something very
exciting.=A0 Let=92s all pull together in (approximately) the same
direction!</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">BW</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Ray Tolley=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span>=
</p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">B:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
"><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>

W:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</sp=
an></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br=
>

</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of th=
e IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 22=
3) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium=
; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">F=
rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk=
.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">=
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; &#39;advisory&#39;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hi
Crispin et al</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Apologies
for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your re=
cent
email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate that. My
comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a really useful
starting point for discussing this and John&#39;s and other&#39;s comments =
on what is
useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong development
of=A0this also.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long tim=
e
ago on this subject.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise :)=
.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
second is Einstein&#39;s:</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">&quot;Not
everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can b=
e
counted.&quot;</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">(again,
apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I sti=
ll
like it)</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum level=
s is
this;</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">&quot;Pick
a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you&#39;re not that far out.&quot;=
 - Pure
genius.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To
me, teaching is a two way process. I don&#39;t teach the same stuff to the =
same
pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what go=
es
on where. Job done.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
rest is down to me &#39;teaching&#39;. I know if I start=A0discussing somet=
hing with
someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I&#39;m sayin=
g /
listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits I a=
nd
they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don&#39;t write it dow=
n. I
just adjust what I&#39;m saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the=
 person
in front of me and the way in which they are &#39;taking&#39; my meaning. I=
 can still
make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and impercievably. If=
 a
pupil in the class has &#39;done this already at my old school, sir&#39; I =
make damn
sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it but that=A0they stil=
l
appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this do=
wn.
Depends if I want to and if it&#39;s useful to me or the pupil at the time.=
 I
certainly don&#39;t put it on line. I&#39;m probably at the pub.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care about
where other people are coming from. It&#39;s an approach that works in main=
stream
settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen square.
Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to dev=
elop
into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do thi=
s better
on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy=A0about it.=A0I won&#39;t b=
e
joining you.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Furthermore,
when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time as
everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The grade I=
 got
was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I wrote on the paper=
 at
the time. I&#39;m unclear on how much more &#39;personalised&#39; that grad=
e could have
got. However, I&#39;m also very clear that that grade in that exam relates =
to
little other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What about it?=
</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To
me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn&#39;t have planned the le=
sson
like that if I thought it was at the wrong &#39;level&#39; or if it wasn&#3=
9;t clearly the
&#39;next step&#39; in these pupils&#39; learning. You want to see how good=
 my judgement
is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You&#39;ll soon work it out.<=
/span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Draw
a graph / don&#39;t draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Just
to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils on
free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you&#39;re an=
 idiot.
The divide is not digital. It&#39;s human. I can see it quite clearly, but =
only
when I&#39;m not staring at this damn laptop.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
am confident that my views here will be seen by=A0some as=A0out of line
and unprofessional. And there&#39;s your problem in a nutshell. More graphs=
, less
emotion. God help us.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Isn&#39;t
it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go bac=
k to
administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our lives
aren&#39;t valid if they&#39;re not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category?
Who put them in charge=A0? That&#39;s=A0NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. The=
y
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else&#39;s point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hop=
efully,
the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at
life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this we=
ek
compared to your &#39;statistical neighbour&#39;. No one even talks to thei=
r=A0REAL
neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Something
is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is really n=
ot
likely to be the source of the problem.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">There
is only one purpose to life: To live.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Take
a deep breath... and begin.</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Alistair
Goodwin</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hants</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">N.B.
The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin&#39;s... but I am
perfectly=A0happy to share them :-)</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz=
-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width=
: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 4pt;">


<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">-----
Original Message ----- </span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat =
scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding=
; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:=
crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.c=
o.uk" target=3D"_blank">Crispin Weston</a> </span></p>


</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">&#39;advisory&#39;</a>
</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sent:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> Tuesday, January 05,
2010 6:57 PM</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Subject:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> RE: [Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools</span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

</div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hi all=
,</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I seem=
 to have stirred something up here. Thanks to
everyone=92s comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly long
essay in response.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Mike.=
 I agree.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Alist=
air: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose in=
to a
brickbat. =A0My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with Chris Gerry that school=
s
should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligenc=
e
(though not, of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism o=
f
real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in p=
lace
some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of cou=
rse I also agree with the stuff about children being happy,
fulfilled individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient an=
d
appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and
find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am
(moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure t=
hat
it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which i=
s
relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years o=
n
end being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already
knows, just because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess and
track what that student=92s learning needs are.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">To res=
pond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">=
You
can&#39;t fatten a pig by weighing it!=94</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I agre=
e that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig far=
mer
that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you
that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The syst=
ems
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily
primitive.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I have=
 some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">=
the
graphs ? I seriously do not </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;C=
ourier New&quot;;">understand
where they fit in=94</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">but th=
e problem here is not the fact that the data is being
collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up.
There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty
graphs. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So wha=
t *<b>is</b>* the point of collecting the data? It seems to
me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting asi=
de
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experie=
nce
as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. A=
part
from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the stude=
nt
must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So the=
 key requirement for an efficient education system is
managing progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that th=
e
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bi=
t of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">We sta=
rt from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people
are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being dri=
ven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have=
 to
have systems capable of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value s=
o
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.</=
span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of cou=
rse, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the
pig) has an important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question
of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. T=
his
links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if =
the
system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 and even
more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. T=
he
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *<b>do</b>=
*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in=
 the
system.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Ray: =
I am not criticising the software systems that are out there
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio </span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: navy;">J</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> but
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity in=
to
these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of paren=
ts
as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing
effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a
relatively recent government target does not undermine the fact that,
internally, the requirement for business intelligence has been long-standin=
g.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I supp=
ort the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with
so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what so=
me
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants=
 who
are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any
good and end up with people saying =93real time reporting doesn=92t
work=94. It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects
properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that =
you
have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hardly=
 any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio,
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it =
has
been such a disaster that it wasn=92t. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Re. th=
e Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with
the point that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data
which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments.
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit =
down
in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatic=
ally
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data b=
eing
collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reporting=
 to
parents can become. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@John.=
 I agree that you need to show the right data to the right
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree w=
ith
your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what=
 you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types o=
f
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and
competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware=
 of.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Neil:=
 I agree with many of your concerns but not with your
conclusion. My responses inline.</span></p>

<div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-te=
xt-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium=
 medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <s=
pan style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I don=92t see why not. Has
Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understandin=
g of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Of course I exaggerate a bit and a
binary =93bleep=94 does not represent particularly high quality data
=96 but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You
will get teachers to input comments wherever possible =96 and make it as
easy as possible for them to do so =96 but teacher comments are (a)
expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big gains=
 for
businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of =
the
data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original poi=
nt:
data entry is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.</span><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">While I agree that the definition
of some teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisi=
ons
of many shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless=
,
when analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">That is the problem w=
ith
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a subjecti=
ve
element that &quot;learning<span style=3D"color: navy;"> </span>software (r=
eally
useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically assess a=
nd
post into your data capture system. Then there&#39;s a whole range of
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">So, following from above, I agree
about the subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the syst=
em
recognises the fact of this uncertainty.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I would call any measure of competency
a =93competency claim=94, just as a philosopher might talk about a
=93truth claim=94. If you start to see a large number of competency
claims from different sources showing a significant degree of consistency, =
you
can start to talk about that student=92s competency with some degree of
confidence.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Competency claims will very often
be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfoli=
o)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Also, I am proposing the
measurement of competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* o=
f
the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction=
 are
not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teac=
hing
before the introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is
misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision=
 to
make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions base=
d on
some kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if th=
e
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People migh=
t
say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the professio=
nal
judgement of the teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly
anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and th=
e
pigs are left to fight for it.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">And finally, while some
=93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, others are actually pretty
straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab within a particular
domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to meas=
ure
with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual ski=
lls,
there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive
efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who repres=
ents
a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a class of students who =
have
not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the partic=
ular
thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris
Gerry=92s approach combines business intelligence with flexible grouping
and staffing systems.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">The Government (quite
reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but there
comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can be reasonably&quot;
automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more
problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder and
harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of co=
urse
begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <span style=3D"col=
or: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think I agree with what you are
saying here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (wh=
ich
is what criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency=
.
Everyone understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments=
 the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good
teachers do anyway.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">At the moment people =
are (because
the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to the t=
est
and &quot;standards&quot; are going up. But is that actually educating chil=
dren
better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into work actually m=
ore
capable (as against &quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<span style=3D"colo=
r: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I don=92t see any problem with
teaching to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, =
well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do no=
t
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for m=
y
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK =96 the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of
examination =96 but I think that a properly reconstituted examination
system should be able to come up with tests which do not reward mechanistic
teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">So, are we chasing ou=
r tails by
thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? <span styl=
e=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think there is a bit of a false
dichotomy here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be
computer assessed very easily =96 others cannot. But in the latter case,
the job of the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by
appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the comput=
er
does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).=
</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">or does the VLE-emper=
or have no
clothes after all? <span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think in many respects the
VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that
leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied b=
y
more capable systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution t=
o
schools. Any good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-cont=
ent
set up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits
(plural) of the system. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I tend to believe it =
is rather
naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but
yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<span sty=
le=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I do not think that there will
ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution =96 rather *<b>suff=
icient</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and
that the robots are fantastically useful.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I believe we should b=
e doing
more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to teachers to hel=
p
them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven dream.<span style=
=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I do not think that
resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are separable. To
take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It
simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every time it launc=
hes
it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation file. When I am =
half
way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). And in a for=
mal
teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn=92t
the teacher expect to see what the students have done, if anything?</span><=
/p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">One of the major problems with
learning resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to addr=
ess
through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much
learning content is =93static=94 and not data aware =96 it does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Much of this data does not cross
the human=92s retina =96 it works in the background. People drown not
because the sea is big but because they can=92t swim. People =93drown
in data=94 not because there is too much data but because it is not underst=
andable
or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong sort or in the wrong
way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attendance records =
but
they do like to receive a text message when their child hasn=92t turned up
to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about the presentation of data,=
 not
about whether data is a good thing in itself.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">One of the characteristics of
modern technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to u=
se.
Good software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to=
 the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">In summary, my position is that
data is the life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large=
, very
complex, very expensive business. </span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Some data is very straightforward
and objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which=
 run
the right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (beca=
use
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can=92t see the problem.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Ultimately, it doesn=92t seem
to me to be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficienc=
y
gains offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offe=
ring
the same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the wr=
it
of modern business management techniques does not run.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I guess that should be accompanied
by sounds of more stirring!</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Crispin.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
</p>

<div>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispi=
n.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearnin=
g.co.uk</a>&gt;</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It has always struck me that the real-time reporting=
 agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers&#39; purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There&#39;s a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and =A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<=
br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the &#39;expectations&#39; in this area, as currently delineated on=
 the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children&#39;s work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that &#39;real-time reporting&#39;, though clearly invalu=
able<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but &#39;reports&#39; are always abou=
t past<br>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =A0I<br=
>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; &#39;interrogate&#39; leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. =A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; &#39;SmartAssess&#39;;<br>
&gt; 2. =A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-=
<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. =A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<=
br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;m sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: =A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<b=
r>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; &#39;sales pitch&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley =A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: =A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS &#39;Leadership Regional Award 2009&#39;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. =A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org" targe=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">www.beaconict.co.u=
k</a> <br>
<br>
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 ICT<br>Twitter: @NeilAdam<br><a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.be=
aconict.co.uk</a> <br><br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=
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--0016e6d7df768217be047c81f18d--

From sen.ict@ntlworld.com  Wed Jan  6 17:05:50 2010
From: sen.ict@ntlworld.com (Alistair Goodwin)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:05:50 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com> <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT> <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg> <BD003AD053604C919FCE51D156B88681@DEVELOPMENT> <B26664E2AC3E94489327B056792690C7CB1B14@exch8.jmu.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <6097DEF80E7E4515A40C0B52D53C3510@PC312912324322>

Absolutely Neil. Rather than being told what I should be better at (which 
concindentally always seems to be exactly what the person telling me is 
actually really into themselves), why not find out what I do and supply me 
with something that actually helps... or indeed leave me alone because I'm 
already doing it. In fact, now I come to think of it, did I actually ask for 
any help ? :-)

Alistair


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stanley, Neil" <N.R.Stanley@ljmu.ac.uk>
To: "advisory" <advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


> Maybe it's because it is data and not *information* - context isn't
> apparently relevant to or promptly derivable by the individual teacher;
> no ownership.
>
> Paper maps (well Google maps printed out) are relevant to the way I
> operate so are owned by me - wouldn't want a sat-nav so I don't own one.
> Same data on both.
>
> Teachers need to own the information - if they've never collected their
> own in any diligent manner (and experiences in mentoring trainees on
> placement indicates that this has been a problem) then they won't want
> someone else's format. If the system aids the collection, storage and
> analysis and they previously did this then they may accept it.
>
> Neil
>
>
> Neil Stanley MA(Ed) BSc AUS PGCE FHEA MBCS
> w: www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/edcnstan & www.stanleyweb.co.uk
>
> All we need is the perception of choice - real choice just confuses us.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
> [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
> Sent: 06 January 2010 15:51
> To: 'Williamson, Jon'; 'advisory'
> Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> <<That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as huge
> tables
> of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a challenge to
> teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve
> classroom
> teaching. >>
> I suspect that teachers are often made to feel inadequate because they
> cannot use huge chunks of data when in fact the failure is one of user
> interface.
> I reckon the challenge is to software providers to present codified data
> to
> teachers in timely, digestible and easily understandable chunks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
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From mike.briscoe@becta.org.uk  Wed Jan  6 17:21:01 2010
From: mike.briscoe@becta.org.uk (Mike Briscoe)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:21:01 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting
Message-ID: <EDAB50E5C2DCB947B0B2CFED67DEFDE613DC4B7171@cov1xmb1.becta.org.uk>

--_000_EDAB50E5C2DCB947B0B2CFED67DEFDE613DC4B7171cov1xmb1becta_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Mike Briscoe
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:07
To: 'advisory-admin@talk.naace.org'
Subject: Online Reporting

Colleagues

I have watched the posts and read with interest the range of dialogue aroun=
d this subject =96 indeed it is DIALOGUE that the online reporting activity=
 is focused upon, the dialogue between the learner, parent and school.

Many of you will recognise that the Becta-based advice and guidance for Onl=
ine Reporting is focused around Exploiting ICT to improve Parental Engageme=
nt of which Online Reporting is one element.

This advice and guidance is based upon the practice, understanding and expe=
riences of colleagues in schools, Local Authorities, Industry and the wider=
 community including the wide range of consultants many of whom are Naace m=
embers.  In 2009, as well as activity at the Naace Strategic Conference, we=
 were delighted to support the Naace Think Tank on the topic =96 the output=
 from which is worth reading =96 and we will also be at the Strategic Confe=
rence in March to continue to support colleagues.

I will of course commend the Becta sources of advice and guidance<http://sc=
hools.becta.org.uk/index.php?section=3Doe&catcode=3Dss_es_fam_02> (as did T=
ony Parkin) and the online community you can engage with.  From there you c=
an access a wide range of resources, get clarification on the expectations =
as set out by Ministers, see materials from schools, use the frameworks to =
help schools move forward, find ICT Register schools who will share their e=
xperiences, link to the 20+ LAs  who helped develop the LA support DVD that=
 all LAs and ICT Mark assessors have and contact the 130+ schools around th=
e country who are advancing their practice and are willing  to talk with ot=
her colleagues and speak at events.

At BETT there are a number of activities that relate to parental engagement=
 and Online Reporting, Becta staff will be available on the stand (J40) and=
 we are delighted to have colleagues from schools with us each day to share=
 their experiences and offer advice to others through face to face discussi=
on and informal workshops.

We look forward to meeting with you and progressing this agenda =96 as I sa=
y, this is about the dialogue between the learner, parent and school, aided=
 by technology.

Regards

Mike B

Mike Briscoe
Director for Institutions, Leadership and Safeguarding
Schools and Families Directorate
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park,
Coventry CV4 7JJ
http://www.becta.org.uk<http://www.becta.org.uk/>
Telephone  024 7679 7156.
Fax : 02476 411418
Email: mike.briscoe@becta.org.uk

ICT Mark schools are more likely to be rated outstanding by Ofsted
To get your starter pack, register now at www.becta.org.uk/schools/ictmarkp=
ack<http://www.becta.org.uk/schools/ictmarkpack>



This email and any information transmitted within it may be confidential an=
d may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended only for the recip=
ient(s) named above or the person responsible for delivering the email to t=
he intended recipient. If you are not named above as a recipient, you must =
not read, copy, disclose, forward or otherwise use the information containe=
d in this email. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify t=
he sender (whose contact details are above) immediately by reply e-mail and=
 delete the message and any information transmitted with it without retaini=
ng any copies.  Please note that electronic mail may be monitored in accord=
ance with the Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practices)(Interception o=
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<div>

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0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Mike Briscoe <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 17:07<br>
<b>To:</b> 'advisory-admin@talk.naace.org'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Online Reporting<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Colleagues<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I
have watched the posts and read with interest the range of dialogue around =
this
subject =96 indeed it is DIALOGUE that the online reporting activity is foc=
used
upon, the dialogue between the learner, parent and school. <span
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Many
of you will recognise that the Becta-based advice and guidance for Online
Reporting is focused around <b>Exploiting ICT to improve Parental Engagemen=
t</b>
of which Online Reporting is one element.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>This
advice and guidance is based upon the practice, understanding and experienc=
es
of colleagues in schools, Local Authorities, Industry and the wider communi=
ty
including the wide range of consultants many of whom are Naace members.&nbs=
p;
In 2009, as well as activity at the Naace Strategic Conference, we were
delighted to support the Naace Think Tank on the topic =96 the output from =
which
is worth reading =96 and we will also be at the Strategic Conference in Mar=
ch to
continue to support colleagues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I
will of course commend the <a
href=3D"http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?section=3Doe&amp;catcode=3Dss=
_es_fam_02">Becta
sources of advice and guidance</a> (as did Tony Parkin) and the online
community you can engage with.&nbsp; From there you can access a wide range=
 of
resources, get clarification on the expectations as set out by Ministers, s=
ee materials
from schools, use the frameworks to help schools move forward, find ICT
Register schools who will share their experiences, link to the 20+ LAs
&nbsp;who helped develop the LA support DVD that all LAs and ICT Mark asses=
sors
have and contact the 130+ schools around the country who are advancing thei=
r
practice and are willing &nbsp;to talk with other colleagues and speak at
events.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>At
BETT there are a number of activities that relate to parental engagement an=
d
Online Reporting, Becta staff will be available on the stand (J40) and we a=
re
delighted to have colleagues from schools with us each day to share their
experiences and offer advice to others through face to face discussion and
informal workshops.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>We
look forward to meeting with you and progressing this agenda =96 as I say, =
this
is about the dialogue between the learner, parent and school, aided by
technology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Mike
B<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Mike
Briscoe<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Director
for Institutions, Leadership and Safeguarding<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Schools
and Families Directorate<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>British
Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) </span><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Milburn
Hill Road, Science Park, </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Coventry
CV4 7JJ<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"http://www.becta.org.uk/" title=3D"http://www.becta.org.uk/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.becta.org.uk</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Telephone&nbsp;
024 7679 7156.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Fax
: 02476 411418 <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Email:
mike.briscoe@becta.org.uk&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>=
ICT Mark
schools are more likely to be rated outstanding by Ofsted<br>
To get your starter pack, register now at </span></i><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:
"Verdana","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"http://www.becta.org.uk/schools/ictmarkp=
ack"><i><span
style=3D'text-decoration:none'>www.becta.org.uk/schools/ictmarkpack</span><=
/i></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<br clear=3Dall> This email and any information transmitted within it may b=
e confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended o=
nly for the recipient(s) named above or the person responsible for deliveri=
ng the email to the intended recipient. If you are not named above as a rec=
ipient, you must not read, copy, disclose, forward or otherwise use the inf=
ormation contained in this email. If you have received this e-mail in error=
, please notify the sender (whose contact details are above) immediately by=
 reply e-mail and delete the message and any information transmitted with i=
t without retaining any copies.  Please note that electronic mail may be mo=
nitored in accordance with the Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice=
s)(Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000.
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--_000_EDAB50E5C2DCB947B0B2CFED67DEFDE613DC4B7171cov1xmb1becta_--

From Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com  Wed Jan  6 18:32:54 2010
From: Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com (Fiona Aubrey-Smith)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 18:32:54 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
 <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk>
 <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B11@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>

--_000_BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B11EXMBX01WBHLocal_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide a=
nd the consequent engagement of parents,

What are people's views on the role of learner's (EY upwards) reporting on =
their own learning?

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message.  If y=
ou are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for deli=
very of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this messa=
ge to anyone.  In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us=
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essages of this kind, please advise immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and=
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ndent of this message.

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:04
To: Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Ray

It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" for pe=
ople to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be usele=
ss when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless you hav=
e standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically "personalise=
" without much user input, plus "business intelligence" systems that can th=
en trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learning plan=
s then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of cr=
edible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a fam=
ily, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than update =
the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to please some =
pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their child did at =
school *today*.

The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they have ope=
ned Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, not last=
 week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to suppl=
y it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that what =
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the=
 classroom.)

Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust =
teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't upda=
ted their learning plans and assessments :(

Yep, it genuinely worries me

Neil
2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>>
Allistair,

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45 =
years at the chalkface.

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is=
 about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come fro=
m, where they are now and where they want to get to.

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will =
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual e=
vidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being sud=
denly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the po=
tential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be =
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time) teacher=
s.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure on the=
 teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written late =
at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive compilation of=
 formative feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of=
 collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's=
 all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org> [=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>]=
 On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Hi Crispin et al

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote=
). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appre=
ciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a re=
ally useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comme=
nts on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong deve=
lopment of this also.

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long t=
ime ago on this subject.

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwis=
e :).

The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, b=
ut I still like it)

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum l=
evels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." - =
Pure genius.

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the s=
ame pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of wha=
t goes on where. Job done.

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something w=
ith someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm sayin=
g / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits=
 I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of=
 the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meanin=
g. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and im=
percievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old schoo=
l, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it =
but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or m=
ay not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or th=
e pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care abo=
ut where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in mains=
tream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen squa=
re. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to=
 develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you c=
an do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.=
 I won't be joining you.

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the =
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not=
. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I =
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'=
 that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in=
 that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in tha=
t exam. What about it?

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the les=
son like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't clea=
rly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it=
 out.

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me =
whatsoever. I never look at them.

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupi=
ls on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're =
an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly=
, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and u=
nprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less em=
otion. God help us.

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just =
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like=
 our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according =
to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural a=
dministrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They=
 will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly inval=
idating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, t=
he new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review =
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a =
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this=
 week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades i=
s really not likely to be the source of the problem.

There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.


Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am =
perfectly happy to share them :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Weston<mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: 'advisory'<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Hi all,

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and=
 apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

@Mike. I agree.

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood =
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.=
  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become mo=
re like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, o=
f course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time re=
porting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of=
 the essential prerequisites beforehand.

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled=
 individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that e=
fficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little =
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to th=
eir needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they h=
ave my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) gratef=
ul for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A studen=
t becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant to h=
is needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end being t=
aught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just becau=
se the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that stud=
ent's learning needs are.

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and=
 what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that=
 he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you tha=
t you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is comp=
letely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The systems =
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily primitive.

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment

"the graphs ? I seriously do not
understand where they fit in"

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but t=
hat it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no ben=
efit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of t=
he primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation fo=
r a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teac=
her, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from=
 *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must hav=
e mastered the necessary prerequisites.

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing progre=
ssion, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right student=
 gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer gives =
the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer=
 on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom t=
eacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are driv=
en through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over=
 the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to =
have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This ty=
pe of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so =
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this di=
scussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an=
 important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the d=
ata comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back=
 to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system=
 is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more motiva=
ted if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The whole po=
int of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat people =
as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the system.

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either =
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio :) but rather the dif=
ficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these syste=
ms. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a pre=
-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective in=
ternal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively recent=
 government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requir=
ement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many=
 other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some Secr=
etary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants who=
 are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone an=
y good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work". It=
 is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly an=
d, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a =
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning =
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why interoperabili=
ty ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such =
a disaster that it wasn't.

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that t=
his is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being =
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes =
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the ev=
ening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically (and=
 I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data being=
 collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reportin=
g to parents can become.

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in =
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your a=
nalysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you s=
how to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of=
 data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or p=
rocessed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency w=
hich the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My =
responses inline.

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" t=
hat can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demo=
nstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent partic=
ularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and grad=
es are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever possibl=
e - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher comment=
s are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the=
 big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer =
to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which=
 is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated whe=
rever possible.
While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are su=
bjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjec=
tive buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprisi=
ng degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite well.
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful =
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into=
 your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills th=
at are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern lif=
e.
So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see thi=
s as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertaint=
y.
I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a phil=
osopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large numbe=
r of competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree =
of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency with =
some degree of confidence.
Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. stud=
ent output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative=
 data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be review=
ed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of =
particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an=
 *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak o=
n subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are giv=
en some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. =
If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been=
 done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.=
 Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to =
me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no =
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment, in=
tervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we al=
l know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is =
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are=
 actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within=
 a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered ac=
tivity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advan=
ced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty hum=
drum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate t=
eacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a=
 class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will all=
ow them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher ha=
s to offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligen=
ce with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through =
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be re=
asonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more a=
nd more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes hard=
er and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. Tha=
t of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a =
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us=
) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph =
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate resu=
lts data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as a "=
live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation, discus=
sion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist, =
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is =
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of e=
ducation and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I th=
ink not.
I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The=
 traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origina=
l and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising=
 along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many st=
udents and many types of examination - but I think that a properly reconsti=
tuted examination system should be able to come up with tests which do not =
reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-ass=
essed learning tasks?
I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and teach=
er. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily - others ca=
nnot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I a=
m writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether yo=
u agree with the views or not).
or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pret=
ty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think y=
ou will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the lon=
g delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires =
some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE th=
rone will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the mu=
ch vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is deli=
vered.
I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total =
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, wit=
h the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This i=
s all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarke=
t terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much As=
imov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without notici=
ng that they are using them all the time and that the robots are fantastica=
lly useful.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to=
 learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a=
 data-driven dream.
I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the oth=
er are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documen=
ts (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initiali=
sation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can save stat=
e (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the c=
lass to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the students h=
ave done, if anything?
One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment (=
and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data=
 aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the backg=
round. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't swim.=
 People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because it i=
s not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong=
 sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to s=
ee attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when their=
 child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about t=
he presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.
One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have=
 become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make=
 sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds =
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc fo=
r teacher as required.
In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern busine=
ss and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business.
Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective an=
d nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.=
 Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),=
 use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the pr=
oblem.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers shoul=
d benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the sa=
me time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the serv=
ice that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some s=
ort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniqu=
es does not run.
I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
Crispin.

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk<mailto:crispin.=
weston@alphalearning.co.uk>>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On Behalf Of Colin J R=
evell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [mailto:secondary-<mailto:secondary->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org=
.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk>
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.u=
k>]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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--

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

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Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>In
parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide and =
the
consequent engagement of parents, <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>What
are people&#8217;s views on the role of learner&#8217;s (EY upwards) report=
ing
on their own learning?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the mes=
sage
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In
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 17:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ray<br>
<br>
It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take &quot;forever&qu=
ot;
for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be
useless when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless yo=
u
have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically
&quot;personalise&quot; without much user input, plus &quot;business
intelligence&quot; systems that can then trawl and analyse learning outcome=
s
and progress that such learning plans then derive, the workload agreement w=
ill
just evaporate as any kind of credible means of treating teachers as people=
. I
don't know if you have a family, but many teachers have other things to do =
in
the evenings than update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids =
work
just to please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what
their child did at school *today*.<br>
<br>
The problem is that the politicians have said &quot;real time&quot;, so the=
y
have opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, =
not
last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to
supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that =
what
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the
classroom.)<br>
<br>
Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he
admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust teac=
hers
are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't updated their
learning plans and assessments :(<br>
<br>
Yep, it genuinely worries me<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/6 Ray Tolley &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Allistair,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate w=
here
you are coming from after my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting
&#8216;thing&#8217; is not about grades or graphs it is about progress and
process. &nbsp;In other words where the learner has come from, where they a=
re
now and where they want to get to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previ=
ously
suggest that the parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#82=
17;s
progress through seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made=
?
&nbsp;And for that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217=
;
Meeting?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school som=
e 5-6
years ago and could well see the potential for &#8216;anytime annotation&#8=
217;
of a child&#8217;s progress which could then be accessed as near as anythin=
g at
any point in time by (at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what
&#8216;real-time&#8217; reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teache=
r to
meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in =
a
stupor of tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formativ=
e
feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborat=
ive
self-assessments as and when completed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the=
 brink
of something very exciting.&nbsp; Let&#8217;s all pull together in
(approximately) the same direction!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BW</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span>=
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.efoliointheuk=
.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</spa=
n></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS
'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
"
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-ad=
min@talk.naace.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your ang=
le on
this (see my footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stan=
d on
this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's an=
d
other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is =
a
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful =
advice
I was given a long time ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy =
or not
(lisping or otherwise :).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Not everything that can be counted counts,=
 and
not everything that counts can be counted.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not ent=
irely
share my view here, but I still like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The piece of advice I was given on making sound
assessments of curriculum levels is this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances =
are
you're not that far out.&quot; - Pure genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't te=
ach
the same stuff to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a roug=
h
long-term plan of what goes on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I
start&nbsp;discussing something with someone whether they are interested / =
able
to understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this
judgement based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mu=
tual
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, =
to
accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they=
 are
'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this
constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this alread=
y at
my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle /
perspective on it but that&nbsp;they still appear to be studying alongside
their peers. I may or may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if =
it's
useful to me or the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'=
m
probably at the pub.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I believe I am able to do this because I had a g=
ood
upbringing and care about where other people are coming from. It's an appro=
ach
that works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station=
 and
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues
allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teache=
r
think you can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happ=
y&nbsp;about
it.&nbsp;I won't be joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series=
 of
exams at precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether I =
was
ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably rel=
ated
to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that
that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that
grade in that exam. What about it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wo=
uldn't
have planned the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' =
or
if it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to=
 see
how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll =
soon
work it out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes abso=
lutley
no difference to me whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to make my position even more clear, if you=
 think
that giving all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this
country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can =
see
it quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I am confident that my views here will be seen
by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and unprofessional. And there's your probl=
em
in a nutshell. More graphs, less emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Isn't it about time that people who like graphs =
and
records and stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than making t=
he
rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;N=
EVER
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily relinquish
control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new sys=
tems
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, musi=
c
etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people=
 will
again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet
earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress y=
ou
made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks =
to
their&nbsp;REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Something is wrong and the current level of
availability of online grades is really not likely to be the source of the
problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>There is only one purpose to life: To live.</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Take a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Alistair Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hants</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine,=
 not
Crispin's... but I am perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ack'>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;
background:#E4E4E4;-moz-background-clip: border;-moz-background-origin: pad=
ding;
-moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;background-attachment:scroll;
background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><b><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:
10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin Weston</a> </span><o:p=
></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'=
>
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt'> RE:
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up h=
ere.
Thanks to everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a
correspondingly long essay in response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet &#8=
211;
but I think you may have misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouq=
uet
might metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>*
with Chris Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms=
 of
their business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service
they offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration b=
ut
of the failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites beforeha=
nd.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff=
 about
children being happy, fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am suspicious of =
what
I take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness.
People&#8217;s happiness increases a little when they receive a public serv=
ice
which is efficient and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases w=
hen
I go into Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata i=
n
stock and I am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems
which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receive=
s
teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a
classroom for years on end being taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t
understand or already knows, just because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered
accurately to assess and track what that student&#8217;s learning needs are=
.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy comm=
ent:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feed=
ing
it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing=
 it.
Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I
suspect he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. A=
ny
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what=
 it
is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in education are
generally extraordinarily primitive.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair&#8=
217;s
comment </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>the graphs ? I seriously do not </span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand where they =
fit
in&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact =
that
the data is being collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Noth=
ing
is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of
making pretty graphs. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of coll=
ecting
the data? It seems to me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in =
education
(putting aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching=
. In
my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to lear=
n
something. Apart from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational
aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. </span=
><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficie=
nt
education system is managing progression, differentiation and personalisati=
on
to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of teaching at the righ=
t
time &#8211; just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig=
 or
puts the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in
managerial terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex
managerial task.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily anti=
quated
system in which people are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts=
,
like troops being driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to ge=
t
away from this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students&#8217;
individual capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is=
 so
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange tha=
t we
are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing the same
things in education.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farmin=
g, the
student (unlike the pig) has an important say in what he/she needs &#8211; =
but
this is a question of where the data comes from and does not undermine the =
need
to track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely t=
o be
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs
&#8211; and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence systems i=
s
that they *<b>do</b>* treat people as individuals, even though there are la=
rge
numbers of them in the system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the softwa=
re
systems that are out there (either for tracking student progress or even fo=
r
e-portfolio </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> but rather=
 the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as =
a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively rece=
nt
government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the require=
ment
for business intelligence has been long-standing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I support the objective of real time
reporting. The danger (as with so many other systems) is that it will be
introduced in response to what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the ba=
th,
driven through by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the right
boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people saying
&#8220;real time reporting doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;. It is very important =
to
manage the introduction of these projects properly and, in the case of
real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a sufficient supply =
of
data to the reporting component.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-=
time
reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its =
own
&#8211; which is why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to=
 be
fixed and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. </span><o:p=
></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to &#82=
11; I
completely agree with the point that this is making. The data that the pare=
nt
can see is the data which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the
online assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is
realistically going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the =
more
data is collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that a=
t
the moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimenta=
ry)
the richer the online reporting to parents can become. </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show =
the
right data to the right people in the right way (see comments on drowning i=
n
data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But =
the
fact that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should no=
t be
tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to other peo=
ple,
either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s
performance and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is co=
mpletely
unaware of.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your conc=
erns
but not with your conclusion. My responses inline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ue'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see why not. Has Johnny
handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understanding of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a bit and a bi=
nary
&#8220;bleep&#8221; does not represent particularly high quality data &#821=
1;
but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You will=
 get
teachers to input comments wherever possible &#8211; and make it as easy as
possible for them to do so &#8211; but teacher comments are (a) expensive a=
nd
(b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesse=
s in
using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry
that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original point: data en=
try
is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>While I agree that the definition of =
some
teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisions of m=
any
shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when
analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>That is
the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - much of =
it
has a subjective element that &quot;learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </s=
pan>software
(really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range o=
f
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So, following from above, I agree abo=
ut the
subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the system recogni=
ses
the fact of this uncertainty.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would call any measure of competenc=
y a
&#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as a philosopher might talk about a
&#8220;truth claim&#8221;. If you start to see a large number of competency
claims from different sources showing a significant degree of consistency, =
you
can start to talk about that student&#8217;s competency with some degree of
confidence.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Competency claims will very often be
accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the measurement =
of competency
as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* of the system. A group of
students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction are not failed in thei=
r
end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teaching before the
introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is misjudged in=
 a
few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision to make that
intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some =
kind
of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the intellig=
ence
is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People might say that, i=
n
the current environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement=
 of
the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything
happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs ar=
e
left to fight for it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>And finally, while some &#8220;soft&#=
8221;
competencies are very subjective, others are actually pretty straightforwar=
d.
How good is someone&#8217;s French vocab within a particular domain? Not re=
ally
that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair deg=
ree
of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite=
 a
lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to
ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable resourc=
e)
should not be put in front of a class of students who have not acquired the
basic knowledge which will allow them to access the particular thing that t=
he
skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry&#8217;s appr=
oach
combines business intelligence with flexible grouping and staffing systems.=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>The
Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can =
be
reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it become=
s
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think I agree with what you are say=
ing
here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is =
what
criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyo=
ne
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; thing, which lived through a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good
teachers do anyway.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are going u=
p.
But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next sta=
ge
of education and into work actually more capable (as against
&quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see any problem with te=
aching
to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do no=
t
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for m=
y
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK &#8211; the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of examin=
ation
&#8211; but I think that a properly reconstituted examination system should=
 be
able to come up with tests which do not reward mechanistic teaching or mere=
ly
the regurgitation of rote learning.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>So, are
we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed
learning tasks? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a false dic=
hotomy
here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer
assessed very easily &#8211; others cannot. But in the latter case, the job=
 of
the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate
computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not
dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>or does
the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think in many respects the VLE-empe=
ror as
currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant
imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied by more capable
systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. An=
y
good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. W=
hat
sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of =
the
system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I tend
to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaun=
ted
but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that there will ever b=
e a
magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution &#8211; rather *<b>sufficient=
</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and
that the robots are fantastically useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I
believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to l=
earn
and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that resources-and-too=
ls on
the one hand and data on the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as=
 an
example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by savin=
g
style sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (m=
ore
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, =
when
a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn&#8217;t the teacher expect =
to
see what the students have done, if anything?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the major problems with learni=
ng
resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to address throu=
gh
the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning
content is &#8220;static&#8221; and not data aware &#8211; it does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Much of this data does not cross the
human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in the background. People drown not
because the sea is big but because they can&#8217;t swim. People &#8220;dro=
wn
in data&#8221; not because there is too much data but because it is not
understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong sort =
or
in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attend=
ance
records but they do like to receive a text message when their child
hasn&#8217;t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about th=
e
presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the characteristics of modern
technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Goo=
d
software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>In summary, my position is that data =
is the
life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large, very compl=
ex,
very expensive business. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Some data is very straightforward and
objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run=
 the
right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Ultimately, it doesn&#8217;t seem to =
me to
be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains
offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offering t=
he
same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the wr=
it
of modern business management techniques does not run.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I guess that should be accompanied by
sounds of more stirring!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Crispin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>2010/1/5
Crispin Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>It
has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing=
<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past<b=
r>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org"
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<br>
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<br>
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Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
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Neil Adam<br>
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From ianrlynch@googlemail.com  Wed Jan  6 21:10:44 2010
From: ianrlynch@googlemail.com (Ian Lynch)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:10:44 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
Message-ID: <a9b15bb91001061310i62658375sed53184d3077da31@mail.gmail.com>

One of Chris Gerry's research findings was that children generally see
the purpose of school as to be with their friends. So that is a piece
of management information that tells us something useful about
emotion. I don't see the things as mutually exclusive, the real issue
is when one thing over dominates the other.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Alistair Goodwin <sen.ict@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Hi Crispin et al
>
> Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
> footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and
> I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy
> is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's
> comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong
> development of this also.
>
> I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
> time ago on this subject.
>
> The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise
> :).
>
> The second is Einstein's:
> "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
> can be counted." (again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share
> my view here, but I still like it)
>
> The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
> levels is this;
> "Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." -
> Pure genius.
>
> To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
> same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
> what goes on where. Job done.
>
> The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
> with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
> saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
> traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
> write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the
> sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my
> meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly
> and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old
> school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on
> it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or
> may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
> the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the
> pub.
>
> I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
> about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
> mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen
> square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me
> to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you
> can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about
> it. I won't be joining you.
>
> Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the
> same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not.
> The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
> wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'
> that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in
> that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in that
> exam. What about it?
>
> To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
> lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
> clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good
> my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work
> it out.
>
> Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
> whatsoever. I never look at them.
>
> Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
> pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
> you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite
> clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.
>
> I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
> unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
> emotion. God help us.
>
> Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just
> go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like
> our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to
> category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
> administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They
> will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
> invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
> Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
> Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
> will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
> planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
> progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one
> even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.
>
> Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is
> really not likely to be the source of the problem.
>
> There is only one purpose to life: To live.
> Take a deep breath... and begin.
>
>
> Alistair Goodwin
> Hants
> N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
> perfectly happy to share them :-)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Crispin Weston
> To: 'advisory'
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone’s comments and
> apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.
>
>
>
> @Mike. I agree.
>
>
>
> @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet – but I think you may have misunderstood
> my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.
>  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become more
> like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, of
> course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
> reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some
> of the essential prerequisites beforehand.
>
>
>
> Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled
> individuals – but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that
> efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People’s happiness increases a little
> when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
> their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they
> have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
> grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A
> student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant
> to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
> being taught things that he either doesn’t understand or already knows, just
> because the school hasn’t bothered accurately to assess and track what that
> student’s learning needs are.
>
>
>
> To respond to Jeff’s pithy comment:
>
>
>
> “You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!”
>
>
>
> I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and
> what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that
> he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that
> you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
> completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
> systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
> extraordinarily primitive.
>
>
>
> I have some sympathy with Alistair’s comment
>
>
>
> “the graphs ? I seriously do not
>
> understand where they fit in”
>
>
>
> but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
> that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
> benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.
>
>
>
> So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of
> the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation
> for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
> teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart
> from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must
> have mastered the necessary prerequisites.
>
>
>
> So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
> progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
> student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time – just as a farmer
> gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
> fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
> classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.
>
>
>
> We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
> driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven
> over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have
> to have systems capable of tracking students’ individual capabilities. This
> type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so
> widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
> discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.
>
>
>
> Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an
> important say in what he/she needs – but this is a question of where the
> data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back
> to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system
> is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs – and even more
> motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
> whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat
> people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the
> system.
>
>
>
> @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either
> for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
> difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
> systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a
> pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
> internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
> recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the
> requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.
>
>
>
> I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many
> other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
> Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants
> who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone
> any good and end up with people saying “real time reporting doesn’t work”.
> It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly
> and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a
> sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.
>
>
>
> Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning
> tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own – which is why
> interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it
> has been such a disaster that it wasn’t.
>
>
>
> Re. the Moodle video you link to – I completely agree with the point that
> this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being
> automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes
> to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
> evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
> (and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
> being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
> reporting to parents can become.
>
>
>
> @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in
> the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
> analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you
> show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of
> data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
> processed form. There may be aspects of pupil’s performance and competency
> which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.
>
>
>
> @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My
> responses inline.
>
> All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
> that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
>
> I don’t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
> demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
>
> Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary “bleep” does not represent
> particularly high quality data – but other quantitative data like scores and
> grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
> possible – and make it as easy as possible for them to do so – but teacher
> comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One
> of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
> customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to
> do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
> automated wherever possible.
>
> While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
> subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
> subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
> surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
> well.
>
> That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -
> much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful
> and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into
> your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills that
> are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.
>
> So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this
> as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.
>
> I would call any measure of competency a “competency claim”, just as a
> philosopher might talk about a “truth claim”. If you start to see a large
> number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
> degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student’s competency
> with some degree of confidence.
>
> Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
> student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
> Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
> can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
> tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
>
> Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an
> *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on
> subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given
> some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. If
> that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been
> done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.
> Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to me
> to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no
> interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment,
> intervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher – but we
> all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is
> just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
>
> And finally, while some “soft” competencies are very subjective, others are
> actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone’s French vocab within a
> particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
> activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
> advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty
> humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate
> teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a
> class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow
> them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to
> offer. This is why Chris Gerry’s approach combines business intelligence
> with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
>
> The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
> automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
> reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
> and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
> harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
> That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
>
> I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a
> paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us)
> is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
> differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
> results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as
> a “live” thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation,
> discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
>
> At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
> criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
> that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
> education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
> think not.
>
> I don’t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The
> traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original
> and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that
> I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
> along in classrooms. OK – the academic essay is not appropriate to many
> students and many types of examination – but I think that a properly
> reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests which
> do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
> learning.
>
> So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
> software-assessed learning tasks?
>
> I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
> teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily –
> others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
> very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact
> that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
> (whether you agree with the views or not).
>
> or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
>
> I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
> pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
> think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring
> the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
> requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
> vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
>
> I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
> much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
> delivered.
>
> I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total
> AI solution – rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, with
> the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This is
> all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarket
> terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much
> Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without
> noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robots are
> fantastically useful.
>
> I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
> learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
> data-driven dream.
>
> I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
> other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
> documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more
> data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
> initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
> save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
> asks the class to do something, doesn’t the teacher expect to see what the
> students have done, if anything?
>
> One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
> (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging
> project) is the fact that so much learning content is “static” and not data
> aware – it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
>
> Much of this data does not cross the human’s retina – it works in the
> background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can’t
> swim. People “drown in data” not because there is too much data but because
> it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
> wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want
> to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
> their child hasn’t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point
> about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
> itself.
>
> One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have
> become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make
> sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
> useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for
> teacher as required.
>
> In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
> business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
> business.
>
> Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
> nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.
> Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),
> use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can’t see the
> problem.
>
> Ultimately, it doesn’t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should
> benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same
> time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service
> that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort
> of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniques
> does not run.
>
> I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
>
> Crispin.
>
>
> 2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>>
>> Some thought for comment;
>>
>> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
>> parents
>> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
>> information about
>> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
>> reporting
>> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
>> Ed Balls
>> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>>
>> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
>> whom and
>> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
>> and I am
>> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
>> this
>> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Cc: Ray Tolley
>> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>> Schools
>>
>> Fergus
>>
>> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
>> journey
>> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
>> Becta
>> website.....?
>> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
>> offerings
>> measure up against these requirements?
>>
>> "What is online reporting?
>>
>> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
>> access
>> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
>> behaviour
>> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>>
>> What do I have to do and when?
>>
>> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
>> available
>> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>>     * Progress and attainment
>>     * Special needs
>> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>>
>> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
>> of the
>> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
>> aspirations.
>>
>> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
>> and
>> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>>
>> Tony
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Tony Parkin
>> Head of ICT Development
>> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
>> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
>> 21-24 Millbank
>> London SW1P 4QP
>>
>> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
>> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
>> Mob:+44 07739 436073
>> Skype: parkintony
>> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
>> --------------------------------------------
>> ________________________________________
>> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
>> admin@talk.naace.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
>> Schools
>>
>> Hi, Fergus,
>>
>> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
>> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
>> did a
>> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
>> were all
>> on holiday.
>>
>> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
>> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
>> reporting
>> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
>> next
>> week.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
>> this
>> issue:
>>
>> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
>> through
>> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
>> 'SmartAssess';
>> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
>> date,
>> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
>> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
>> a good
>> e-Portfolio system.
>>
>> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
>> firstly it
>> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>>
>> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
>> degree of
>> 'sales pitch'.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>>
>> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
>> ICT Education Consultant
>> Maximise ICT Ltd
>> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
>> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
>> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
>> admin@talk.naace.org]
>> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
>> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
>> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
>> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
>> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
>> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
>> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
>> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
>> -
>> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
>> appreciated.
>> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
>> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
>> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>>
>> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>>
>> Fergus Reynolds
>> _______________________________________________
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From johnwasteney@strategict.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 22:52:27 2010
From: johnwasteney@strategict.co.uk (John Wasteney)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 22:52:27 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com> <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT> <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <019f01ca8f22$eba50140$c2ef03c0$@co.uk>

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Jon et al,

 

Apologies for having a second bite of this particular cherry but I am
pleased to see the data debate unfolding. Metaphors and analogies are useful
and I for one have used the' weighing pigs' but recognise it only serves to
exaggerate a point.

 

My greatest concern however is that the result of many and various
educational interventions has been the gradual degradation of teacher
professionalism over the last 20 years or so. Meaningful data is the
judgemental performance data witnessed by the teacher in the classroom
minute by minute. It is recorded in the most super of super computers - the
human brain. On occasions there can be data overload or a sensory input
device might miss a student or two grasp (or fail to grasp)  a desired
learning outcome, but well planned lessons by enthusiastic and motivated
teachers usually systematically embrace  inbuilt backup protocols and rerun
system checks regularly. I recall trying to visualise to colleagues in my
science department how  student learning might be portrayed like the
graphical equaliser display on what was then my new Amstrad stereo (early
1970's).  That metaphor encouraged teachers and students to recognise that
any component of their learning might go down as well as up on occasions but
overall and over time we are looking at upward trend (like slowly turning up
the volume)

 

As you can tell, I started teaching way before Data was a character in
Startrek, but we still used regular retrospective analysis from exam results
- identified areas for action, identified groups of students who found core
concepts difficult and identified strategies to support students with hard
(for them) to learn ideas and content. Some data is critical e.g. attendance
data at school and at lesson level. If pupils are not there they are
unlikely to be learning. Knowing that and doing something about is another
thing. Similarly data to monitor progress against national benchmarks is
valuable but good teachers will do that when it is appropriate which in some
subjects/topics/themes  can be at very different time intervals. Data
systems currently appear to rigidly inflexible, either that or all school
data-managers are morons (which I doubt very much!) Therefore systems which
require points scores, national curriculum levels with qualifiers, automatic
target set projections are less than helpful. Tongue in cheek I would argue
that the amount of time most teachers spent on data collection and input, so
called data analysis and target setting has a disproportionately negative
impact on any student progress.

 

Most schools do not differentiate or recognise the progress made by students
in subjects with varying time allocations. For example typically a year 7
student will receive 3 Science lessons per week. By half term that student
will have met with their Science teacher 27 times and experienced
considerable opportunities through lesson and homework to demonstrate a
range of learning facets and a range of different of contexts. By contrast a
1 lesson per week subject such as Music or ICT the same student may well
only have experienced 9 lessons. Teachers of all subjects in the vast
majority of schools (there are a few enlightened ones somewhere I believe)
are being asked to produce performance data with the same frequency and the
same regularity and are expected to demonstrate students are making the same
progress. What do I report - this student is a level 4c in modelling with
Excel projected ICT target by end of Y9 level 6 and a by year 11 a Grade B
equivalent at GCSE. All that information gleaned from a bit of data captured
after just 9 lessons in one topic. 

 

I know Crispin et al are talking of smart data, data that enhances what goes
on in the classroom. I still come back to the fact that real smart data
comes from the interaction between teacher and pupil.Yes supermarket data is
very smart, calculating buyer preferences, identifying stock shortages,
predicting seasonal trends is good business sense but is the system smart
enough to recognise that an aubergine used in a recipe on last weeks "Can't
cook wont cook" will increase aubergine demand this Tuesday by 37%. It is
right and proper for data driven models to be used in situations that are no
longer faced up by humans. My local greengrocer responds to his customers
and although I pay a little more he will always try to oblige his customers.
He listens and whenever possible he responds. If we ask for an aubergine and
it is not in the shop he apologises and says will tomorrow be OK. In the
supermarket the response is usually 'system error'.

I make no apologies when the teacher in me plus the parent and grandparent
believes that education is a about human endeavour. Schooling and learning
require carefully negotiated relationships between teacher, student and
parent/carer. ICT has a huge part to play in supporting all of the things
that teachers now have to do and effective communication with all
stakeholders, also  ICT can make teaching fun, motivational, engaging and
exciting. My view is that data for online reporting has a tiny tiny place in
all of this. Schools are about people and not systems and if systems are
used they should support not determine what goes on in the classroom. 

 

 

regards,

 

John

 

John Wasteney

Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960

Mob:07810 446176 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Williamson, Jon
Sent: 06 January 2010 15:01
To: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Hi all,

 

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the NFER has been
grappling with for a while.  It is obviously true that you do not fatten a
pig by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice that you have
underfed it if you don't.  As has been noted in many recent reports it is
important to understand why you are assessing, or generally generating data.
The Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key purposes for
assessment:

.         to optimise the effectiveness of pupils' learning and teachers'
teaching

.         to hold individual schools accountable for their performance

.         to provide parents with information about their child's progress

.         to provide reliable information about national standards over time

 

All of these are important in their own right, but issues arise when one
assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too much.

 

What we have found in attempting to address the first bullet point by
creating a formative e-assessment system that generates formative
qualitative information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be used
to directly impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info is
at  <http://www.i-nfer.co.uk> www.i-nfer.co.uk] is that a lot of other
summative information falls out along the way - information that could be
used to provide meaningful live data to parents.  However, as has been noted
by others, there is no current structure into which this data could be
inserted - one possible avenue may be the Government's much vaunted "Report
Cards".

 

A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do not understand how to
use data.  That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as
huge tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a
challenge to teachers that they should be making better use of data to
improve classroom teaching. 

 

 

Jon Williamson

Managing Director

 

i-nfer assessment ltd

personalising assessment

 <http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/> www.i-nfer.co.uk

 

See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 January, Stand S33 

 

Tel: 01403 782 461

Mobile 07710 457 645

This e-mail is confidential to the addressee and may contain privileged
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intercept and read e-mails sent or received by our employees.  If you do not
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Registered Office: The Mere, Upton Park, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 2DQ

Company No:  05946075 (England)

VAT No: 900 0616 83

 

 

 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 06 January 2010 08:18
To: 'Neil Adam'
Cc: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Thanks Neil.

 

I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done and that change
is a problem. I don't think that the way to introduce change is by beating
teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in current
circumstances.

 

My recipe for change is:

 

1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I believe to be
critical, in close consultation with industry;

2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer whatever
innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;

3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that make sense to
them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives easier.

 

And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the
current environment.

 

Crispin.

 

 

  _____  

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 23:36
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be
able to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear
they'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and
does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
Mobile 07720 288540
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<body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Jon et al,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Apologies for having a second bite of this =
particular cherry
but I am pleased to see the data debate unfolding. Metaphors and =
analogies are
useful and I for one have used the&#8217; weighing pigs&#8217; but =
recognise it only serves
to exaggerate a point.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>My greatest concern however is that the result of =
many and
various educational interventions has been the gradual degradation of =
teacher
professionalism over the last 20 years or so. Meaningful data is the
judgemental performance data witnessed by the teacher in the classroom =
minute
by minute. It is recorded in the most super of super computers - the =
human
brain. On occasions there can be data overload or a sensory input device =
might
miss a student or two grasp (or fail to grasp)&nbsp; a desired learning =
outcome, but
well planned lessons by enthusiastic and motivated teachers usually
systematically embrace&nbsp; inbuilt backup protocols and rerun system =
checks
regularly. I recall trying to visualise to colleagues in my science =
department
how&nbsp; student learning might be portrayed like the graphical =
equaliser display
on what was then my new Amstrad stereo (early 1970&#8217;s).&nbsp; That =
metaphor
encouraged teachers and students to recognise that any component of =
their
learning might go down as well as up on occasions but overall and over =
time we
are looking at upward trend (like slowly turning up the =
volume)<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>As you can tell, I started teaching way before Data =
was a
character in Startrek, but we still used regular retrospective analysis =
from
exam results &#8211; identified areas for action, identified groups of =
students who
found core concepts difficult and identified strategies to support =
students
with hard (for them) to learn ideas and content. Some data is critical =
e.g.
attendance data at school and at lesson level. If pupils are not there =
they are
unlikely to be learning. Knowing that and doing something about is =
another
thing. Similarly data to monitor progress against national benchmarks is
valuable but good teachers will do that when it is appropriate which in =
some
subjects/topics/themes&nbsp; can be at very different time intervals. =
Data systems
currently appear to rigidly inflexible, either that or all school =
data-managers
are morons (which I doubt very much!) Therefore systems which require =
points
scores, national curriculum levels with qualifiers, automatic target set
projections are less than helpful. Tongue in cheek I would argue that =
the
amount of time most teachers spent on data collection and input, so =
called data
analysis and target setting has a disproportionately negative impact on =
any
student progress.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Most schools do not differentiate or recognise the =
progress
made by students in subjects with varying time allocations. For example
typically a year 7 student will receive 3 Science lessons per week. By =
half
term that student will have met with their Science teacher 27 times and
experienced considerable opportunities through lesson and homework to
demonstrate a range of learning facets and a range of different of =
contexts. By
contrast a 1 lesson per week subject such as Music or ICT the same =
student may
well only have experienced 9 lessons. Teachers of all subjects in the =
vast
majority of schools (there are a few enlightened ones somewhere I =
believe) are
being asked to produce performance data with the same frequency and the =
same
regularity and are expected to demonstrate students are making the same
progress. What do I report &#8211; this student is a level 4c in =
modelling with Excel
projected ICT target by end of Y9 level 6 and a by year 11 a Grade B =
equivalent
at GCSE. All that information gleaned from a bit of data captured after =
just 9
lessons in one topic. <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>I know Crispin et al are talking of smart data, =
data that
enhances what goes on in the classroom. I still come back to the fact =
that real
smart data comes from the interaction between teacher and pupil.Yes =
supermarket
data is very smart, calculating buyer preferences, identifying stock =
shortages,
predicting seasonal trends is good business sense but is the system =
smart
enough to recognise that an aubergine used in a recipe on last weeks =
&#8220;Can&#8217;t
cook wont cook&#8221; will increase aubergine demand this Tuesday by =
37%. It is right
and proper for data driven models to be used in situations that are no =
longer
faced up by humans. My local greengrocer responds to his customers and =
although
I pay a little more he will always try to oblige his customers. He =
listens and
whenever possible he responds. If we ask for an aubergine and it is not =
in the
shop he apologises and says will tomorrow be OK. In the supermarket the
response is usually &#8216;system error&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>I make no apologies when the teacher in me plus the =
parent
and grandparent&nbsp; believes that education is a about human =
endeavour. Schooling
and learning require carefully negotiated relationships between teacher,
student and parent/carer. ICT has a huge part to play in supporting all =
of the
things that teachers now have to do and effective communication with all
stakeholders, also&nbsp; ICT can make teaching fun, motivational, =
engaging and
exciting. My view is that data for online reporting has a tiny tiny =
place in
all of this. Schools are about people and not systems and if systems are =
used they
should support not determine what goes on in the classroom. =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>John Wasteney<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Managing Director<br>
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd<br>
<br>
Tel: 01455 290960<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mob:07810 446176 <br>
<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Williamson, Jon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 15:01<br>
<b>To:</b> 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the =
NFER has
been grappling with for a while.&nbsp; It is obviously true that you do =
not
fatten a pig by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice =
that you
have underfed it if you don&#8217;t.&nbsp; As has been noted in many =
recent reports
it is important to understand why you are assessing, or generally =
generating
data.&nbsp; The Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key
purposes for assessment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to optimise the effectiveness of pupils&#8217; learning =
and teachers&#8217;
teaching<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to hold individual schools accountable for their =
performance<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide parents with information about their =
child&#8217;s progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide reliable information about national standards =
over
time<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>All of these are important in their own right, but issues =
arise
when one assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to =
do too
much.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What we have found in attempting to address the first =
bullet
point by creating a formative e-assessment system that generates =
formative
qualitative information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be =
used to
directly impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info =
is at </span><a
href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk"><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.=
co.uk</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>] is
that a lot of other summative information falls out along the way =
&#8211; information
that could be used to provide meaningful live data to parents.&nbsp; =
However,
as has been noted by others, there is no current structure into which =
this data
could be inserted &#8211; one possible avenue may be the =
Government&#8217;s much vaunted
&#8220;Report Cards&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do =
not
understand how to use data.&nbsp; That is often the fault of data =
providers for
providing it as huge tables of data and graphs with limited =
interpretation, but
also a challenge to teachers that they should be making better use of =
data to
improve classroom teaching. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jon Williamson<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Managing Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>i-nfer assessment =
ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>personalising =
assessment<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.=
co.uk</span></a><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 =
January, Stand
S33 <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Tel: 01403 782 461<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mobile 07710 457 645<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin =
Weston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 08:18<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Thanks Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done =
and
that change is a problem. I don&#8217;t think that the way to introduce =
change is by
beating teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in
current circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>My recipe for change is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I =
believe
to be critical, in close consultation with =
industry;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements =
to offer
whatever innovative learning technology solutions they can dream =
up;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions =
that make
sense to them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives =
easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on =
what works
in the current environment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 23:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><span
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Great response Crispin<br>
<br>
Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be =
able
to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear =
they'll
stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and =
does add
some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(<br>
<br>
Neil<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for =
those
in the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let =
me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward =
the
material to anyone else.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01CA8F22.EBA50140--


From Roger@BroadieAssociates.co.uk  Wed Jan  6 23:08:07 2010
From: Roger@BroadieAssociates.co.uk (Roger Broadie)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:08:07 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322> <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk> <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03854CB9-B6A2-4430-B93F-22D0961DEB99@BroadieAssociates.co.uk>

--Apple-Mail-222-1044246257
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=WINDOWS-1252;
	format=flowed;
	delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


This is all a people issue.

People (teachers or pupils or parents) will commit to databases things =20=

that are urgent (behaviour, attendance , significant changes in =20
performance etc) and things that are important (summative assessments =20=

etc) - provided they can do so within the time constraints of their =20
job (i.e. that it is easier to commit this data online than on paper/=20
by word of mouth).

They will also commit to computer systems things that they want to, =20
because of the reward involved. (e.g. children podcasting about their =20=

work, or posting pictures to galleries).


But as there is increasing use of digital environments, it becomes =20
possible to see a picture of learning activity happening digitally, =20
which of course needs to be correlated with what happens face-to-face, =20=

but which is an important element of learning.

In an E.E.P. meeting some years ago, James Blomfield of Intuitive =20
Media told of some analysis carried out on GridClub forums. They had =20
tracked who had contributed when, on what thread of the discussion, =20
and how the threads developed. There were some children who =20
contributed little - but when they did, there was a high possibility =20
that their post caused the current discussion thread to split, =20
generating two or more threads that others were stimulated to =20
contribute to. The interesting question is who these lurkers were, and =20=

what degree of analysis and understanding they (silently) brought to =20
the discussion, that could trigger their colleagues into new levels of =20=

thought and stimulation. And whether they would have done this, had =20
the discussion been face-to-face in class.

And what value should be assigned to this by their teachers, in their =20=

assessor role.

I have once seen a school report that said "???? contributes rarely in =20=

discussion but when he does his comments are of value" - a rare but =20
important noticing of quiet personal learning.


How easy is it to trap this kind of thing in the push and shove of =20
class dynamics, and how much of this could we see in the data that is =20=

accruing on pupils' learning activity, as use of learning platforms =20
grows? If you have ever taken pupils out of school for a week of =20
country-side activities you will know how your understanding of  them =20=

changes - as they show what they can do on their own terms. This is =20
the kind of data I wish teachers could see.

Roger.





On 6 Jan 2010, at 17:04, Neil Adam wrote:

> Ray
>
> It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" =20=

> for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they =20=

> will be useless when it comes to working with young people in their =20=

> care. Unless you have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow =20=

> automatically "personalise" without much user input, plus "business =20=

> intelligence" systems that can then trawl and analyse learning =20
> outcomes and progress that such learning plans then derive, the =20
> workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of credible means =20=

> of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a family, =20
> but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than =20
> update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just =20
> to please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly =20
> what their child did at school *today*.
>
> The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they =20
> have opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about =20=

> today, not last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not =20
> going to be able to supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, =20
> they will fudge it such that what parents are told will only bear a =20=

> vague resemblance to what happened in the classroom.)
>
> Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, =20=

> but as he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who =20=

> don't trust teachers are going to be getting down their necks =20
> because they haven't updated their learning plans and assessments :(
>
> Yep, it genuinely worries me
>
> Neil
>
> 2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>
> Allistair,
>
>
> I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my =20=

> own 45 years at the chalkface.
>
>
> However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about grades or =20
> graphs it is about progress and process.  In other words where the =20
> learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get =20=

> to.
>
>
> Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/=20
> carer will have a better insight of their child=92s progress through =20=

> seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made?  And for =20=

> that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?
>
>
> I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see =20=

> the potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s progress =
which =20
> could then be accessed as near as anything at any point in time by =20
> (at that time) teachers.  This, to me is what =91real-time=92 =
reporting =20
> is about.  No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines =20=

> of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of =20
> tiredness.  But rather a progressive compilation of formative =20
> feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of =20
> collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.
>
>
> As others have said, we are at the brink of something very =20
> exciting.  Let=92s all pull together in (approximately) the same =20
> direction!
>
>
> BW
>
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org =
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=20
> ] On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
> Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
> To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
>
>
> Hi Crispin et al
>
>
> Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my =20
> footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on =20
> this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The =20
> supermarket analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing =20=

> this and John's and other's comments on what is useful / probably =20
> most desirable to parents is a strong development of this also.
>
>
> I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a =20=

> long time ago on this subject.
>
>
> The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or =20
> otherwise :).
>
>
> The second is Einstein's:
>
> "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that =20=

> counts can be counted."
>
> (again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view =20=

> here, but I still like it)
>
>
> The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of =20
> curriculum levels is this;
>
> "Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far =20
> out." - Pure genius.
>
>
> To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff =20
> to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-=20
> term plan of what goes on where. Job done.
>
>
> The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing =20
> something with someone whether they are interested / able to =20
> understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this =20=

> judgement based on human traits I and they have and through a =20
> process of mutual respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what =20=

> I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the person in =20
> front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can =20=

> still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and =20
> impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my =20=

> old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / =20
> perspective on it but that they still appear to be studying =20
> alongside their peers. I may or may not write this down. Depends if =20=

> I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. I =20
> certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pub.
>
>
> I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and =20
> care about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that =20=

> works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington =20
> Station and Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, =20
> friends and colleagues allowed me to develop into somebody who knows =20=

> who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do this better on-line, =20=

> then great. I accept that and am happy about it. I won't be joining =20=

> you.
>
>
> Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at =20
> precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether I =20
> was ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and =20
> presumably related to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm =20=

> unclear on how much more 'personalised' that grade could have got. =20
> However, I'm also very clear that that grade in that exam relates to =20=

> little other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What =20
> about it?
>
>
> To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned =20=

> the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if =20=

> it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You =20
> want to see how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for =20=

> 10 seconds. You'll soon work it out.
>
>
> Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference =20=

> to me whatsoever. I never look at them.
>
>
> Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving =20
> all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this =20
> country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. =20=

> I can see it quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this =20
> damn laptop.
>
>
> I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of =20
> line and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. =20
> More graphs, less emotion. God help us.
>
>
> Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and =20
> stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than making the =20
> rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not =20
> spellchecked and coloured according to category? Who put them in =20
> charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural administrators are =20
> never going to happily relinquish control and power. They will =20
> simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly =20
> invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc =20=

> Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary =20=

> Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because =20=

> people will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more =20=

> to life on planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung =20=

> up on how much progress you made this week compared to your =20
> 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their REAL neighbours =20=

> anymore. Wake up.
>
>
> Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online =20
> grades is really not likely to be the source of the problem.
>
>
> There is only one purpose to life: To live.
>
> Take a deep breath... and begin.
>
>
>
> Alistair Goodwin
>
> Hants
>
> N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... =20
> but I am perfectly happy to share them :-)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Crispin Weston
>
> To: 'advisory'
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
>
> Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s =20
> comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay =20
> in response.
>
>
> @Mike. I agree.
>
>
> @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have =20
> misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might =20
> metamorphose into a brickbat.  My point is that I *agree* with Chris =20=

> Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of =20=

> their business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the =20=

> service they offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of =20
> the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of the =20
> essential prerequisites beforehand.
>
>
> Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, =20
> fulfilled individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a =20=

> suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s =20
> happiness increases a little when they receive a public service =20
> which is efficient and appropriate to their needs. My happiness =20
> increases when I go into Tesco and find that they have my favourite =20=

> type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) grateful for the =20=

> computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A student =20
> becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant =20=

> to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on =20=

> end being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already =
=20
> knows, just because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess =20=

> and track what that student=92s learning needs are.
>
>
> To respond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:
>
>
> =93You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!=94
>
>
> I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how =20
> much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a =20=

> pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect =20=

> he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. =20
> Any efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and =20
> analysis of what it is doing. The systems that we have in place for =20=

> doing this in education are generally extraordinarily primitive.
>
>
> I have some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment
>
>
> =93the graphs ? I seriously do not
>
> understand where they fit in=94
>
>
> but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being =20
> collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is =20
> joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake =20=

> of making pretty graphs.
>
>
> So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that =20
> one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting =20
> aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. =20=

> In my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is =20
> ready to learn something. Apart from *wanting* to learn it (again, a =20=

> motivational aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary =20
> prerequisites.
>
>
> So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing =20=

> progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the =20=

> right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 =20
> just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or =20
> puts the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And =20=

> in managerial terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely =20=

> complex managerial task.
>
>
> We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people =20
> are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops =20
> being driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get =20
> away from this, we have to have systems capable of tracking =20
> students=92 individual capabilities. This type of tracking of business =
=20
> effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that =20=

> I find it very strange that we are even having this discussion as to =20=

> whether we should be doing the same things in education.
>
>
> Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) =20=

> has an important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question =20=

> of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to =20
> track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more =20
> likely to be motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) =20=

> my individual needs =96 and even more motivated if it is tracking (and =
=20
> responding to) my individual wants. The whole point of modern =20
> business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat people as =20
> individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the =20
> system.
>
>
> @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there =20
> (either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but =20=

> rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and =20
> quantity into these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the =20=

> involvement of parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on =20=

> benefit from implementing effective internal systems. So the fact =20
> that real-time reporting is a relatively recent government target =20
> does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requirement for =20
> business intelligence has been long-standing.
>
>
> I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with =20=

> so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to =20=

> what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through =20=

> by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, =20
> fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people saying =20
> =93real time reporting doesn=92t work=94. It is very important to =
manage =20
> the introduction of these projects properly and, in the case of real-=20=

> time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a sufficient =20
> supply of data to the reporting component.
>
>
> Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, =20
> learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is =20=

> why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed =20=

> and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn=92t.
>
>
> Re. the Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with the point =
=20
> that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data =20
> which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online =20
> assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is =20
> realistically going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. =20=

> So the more data is collected automatically (and I think most people =20=

> would agree that at the moment, the type of data being collected by =20=

> Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reporting to =20
> parents can become.
>
>
> @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right =20
> people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I =20=

> agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact =20=

> that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should =20=

> not be tracking other types of data as well, which may be of =20
> interest to other people, either in raw or processed form. There may =20=

> be aspects of pupil=92s performance and competency which the over-=20
> pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.
>
>
> @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your =20
> conclusion. My responses inline.
>
>
> All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not =20
> "articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
>
> I don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of =20=

> work demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
>
> Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary =93bleep=94 does not =
represent =20
> particularly high quality data =96 but other quantitative data like =20=

> scores and grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input =20
> comments wherever possible =96 and make it as easy as possible for =20
> them to do so =96 but teacher comments are (a) expensive and (b) are =20=

> not always uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesses =20=

> in using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of the =20=

> data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my =20
> original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated =20
> wherever possible.
>
> While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes =20=

> are subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But =20
> complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when =20
> analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths =20
> models probability really quite well.
>
> That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency =20=

> data - much of it has a subjective element that "learning software =20
> (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot =20
> automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then =20
> there's a whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to =20
> assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.
>
> So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not =20=

> see this as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of =20
> this uncertainty.
>
> I would call any measure of competency a =93competency claim=94, just =
as =20
> a philosopher might talk about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to =
see =20
> a large number of competency claims from different sources showing a =20=

> significant degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that =20=

> student=92s competency with some degree of confidence.
>
> Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence =20
> (e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the =20
> claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the =20
> subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions =20
> moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can =20
> also be tracked and compensated for.
>
> Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and =20=

> not an *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived =20=

> to be weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course =20
> exams; but they are given some extra teaching before the =20
> introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is =20
> misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the =20
> decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making =20=

> interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to =20
> me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to =20
> making no interventions at all. People might say that, in the =20
> current environment, intervention is left to the professional =20
> judgement of the teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, =20=

> hardly anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the =20=

> trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
>
> And finally, while some =93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, =20=

> others are actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone=92s =20=

> French vocab within a particular domain? Not really that difficult =20
> for a computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair degree of =20
> accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is =20
> quite a lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive =20
> efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who =20=

> represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a =20
> class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which =20
> will allow them to access the particular thing that the skilled =20
> graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry=92s approach =20=

> combines business intelligence with flexible grouping and staffing =20
> systems.
>
> The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload =20
> through automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask =20=

> "what can be reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist =20
> approach is creating more and more problems with SATs (let alone =20
> workload involved) as it becomes harder and harder to align the =20
> capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs the =20=

> whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
>
> I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought =20=

> that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion =20
> referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone =20=

> understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments =20
> the opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I =20=

> would see a competency definition as a =93live=94 thing, which lived =20=

> through a continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. =20=

> Which what good teachers do anyway.
>
> At the moment people are (because the current system is more =20
> reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" =20=

> are going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do =20
> they get to the next stage of education and into work actually more =20=

> capable (as against "competent")? I think not.
>
> I don=92t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good =20=

> test. The traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real =20=

> test of original and creative thought and I do not think that I am =20
> alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for my major =20
> exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK =96 the =20
> academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of =20=

> examination =96 but I think that a properly reconstituted examination =20=

> system should be able to come up with tests which do not reward =20
> mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.
>
> So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce =20
> software-assessed learning tasks?
>
> I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer =20
> and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very =20
> easily =96 others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the =20
> teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by =20
> appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the =20=

> computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with =20
> the views or not).
>
> or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
>
> I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is =20=

> a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne =20
> which I think you will see being occupied by more capable systems =20
> which will bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any =20=

> good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-content =20
> set up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the =20
> infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
>
> I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until =20=

> the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial =20
> intelligence is delivered.
>
> I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) =20=

> total AI solution =96 rather *sufficient* intelligence for any =20
> particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always coming back =20
> to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replacing, =20
> the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the =20
> store manager. People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get =20
> very worked up about dehumanising robots without noticing that they =20=

> are using them all the time and that the robots are fantastically =20
> useful.
>
> I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to =20
> learners to learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so =20=

> hung up chasing a data-driven dream.
>
> I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on =20=

> the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it =20
> produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving =20
> style sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my =20
> preferences (more data) from an initialisation file. When I am half =20=

> way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). And =20
> in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do =20
> something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what the students have =20=

> done, if anything?
>
> One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the =20
> moment (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB =20
> Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning content =20=

> is =93static=94 and not data aware =96 it does not contextualise, =20
> personalise, adapt and report.
>
> Much of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it works in =20=

> the background. People drown not because the sea is big but because =20=

> they can=92t swim. People =93drown in data=94 not because there is too =
=20
> much data but because it is not understandable or because it is not =20=

> useful or they are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John =20
> Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attendance records but =20=

> they do like to receive a text message when their child hasn=92t =20
> turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about the =20
> presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in =20
> itself.
>
> One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user =20
> interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Good software will =20=

> collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the teacher =20=

> only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head =20
> teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.
>
> In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern =20=

> business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive =20=

> business.
>
> Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more =20
> subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse =20=

> on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because =20
> codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance =20=

> and interpretation. I can=92t see the problem.
>
> Ultimately, it doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that =20
> teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other =20
> services and at the same time, when it comes to offering the same =20
> level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for =20
> providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where =20=

> the writ of modern business management techniques does not run.
>
> I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
>
> Crispin.
>
>
>
> 2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a =20
> massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =20=

> on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =20=

> that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =20
> purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still =20
> in a sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have =20
> very little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =20=

> and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the =20
> supermarkets lay in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =20=

> student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =20=

> also of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted =20
> out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering =20
> up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =20
> promised by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> >     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> >     * Progress and attainment
> >     * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
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> --=20
>
> Neil Adam
> Beacon ICT
> Twitter: @NeilAdam
> www.beaconict.co.uk
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
> Mobile 07720 288540
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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>
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> --=20
>
> Neil Adam
> Beacon ICT
> Twitter: @NeilAdam
> www.beaconict.co.uk
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
> Mobile 07720 288540
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for =20
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--Apple-Mail-222-1044246257
Content-Type: text/html;
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>This is all =
a people issue.</div><div><br></div><div>People (teachers or pupils or =
parents) will commit to databases things that are urgent (behaviour, =
attendance , significant changes in performance etc) and things that are =
important (summative assessments etc) - provided they can do so within =
the time constraints of their job (i.e. that it is easier to commit this =
data online than on paper/by word of =
mouth).</div><div><br></div><div>They will also commit to computer =
systems things that they want to, because of the reward involved. (e.g. =
children podcasting about their work, or posting pictures to =
galleries).</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But as there is =
increasing use of digital environments, it becomes possible to see a =
picture of learning activity happening digitally, which of course needs =
to be correlated with what happens face-to-face, but which is an =
important element of learning.</div><div><br></div><div>In an E.E.P. =
meeting some years ago, James Blomfield of Intuitive Media told of some =
analysis carried out on GridClub forums. They had tracked who had =
contributed when, on what thread of the discussion, and how the threads =
developed. There were some children who contributed little - but when =
they did, there was a high possibility that their post caused the =
current discussion thread to split, generating two or more threads that =
others were stimulated to contribute to. The interesting question is who =
these lurkers were, and what degree of analysis and understanding they =
(silently) brought to the discussion, that could trigger their =
colleagues into new levels of thought and stimulation. And whether they =
would have done this, had the discussion been face-to-face in =
class.</div><div><br></div><div>And what value should be assigned to =
this by their teachers, in their assessor =
role.</div><div><br></div><div>I have once seen a school report that =
said "???? contributes rarely in discussion but when he does his =
comments are of value" - a rare but important noticing of quiet personal =
learning.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>How easy is it to trap =
this kind of thing in the push and shove of class dynamics, and how much =
of this could we see in the data that is accruing on pupils' learning =
activity, as use of learning platforms grows? If you have ever taken =
pupils out of school for a week of country-side activities you will know =
how your understanding of &nbsp;them changes - as they show what they =
can do on their own terms.&nbsp;This is the kind of data I wish teachers =
could =
see.</div><div><br></div><div>Roger.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On 6 Jan 2010, at 17:04, Neil =
Adam wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ray<br><br>It worries me that the level of detail you =
imply will take "forever" for people to put into systems. Teachers need =
to get lives, or they will be useless when it comes to working with =
young people in their care. Unless you have standardised lesson plans =
that you can somehow automatically "personalise" without much user =
input, plus "business intelligence" systems that can then trawl and =
analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learning plans then =
derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of =
credible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have =
a family, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than =
update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to =
please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what =
their child did at school *today*.<br> <br>The problem is that the =
politicians have said "real time", so they have opened Pandora's box. =
People will expect up-to-date info about today, not last week, let alone =
last month. And teachers are not going to be able to supply it. (Or asa =
someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that what parents are =
told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the =
classroom.)<br> <br>Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may =
be able to do so, but as he admits, they are quite some way off. =
Meanwhile parents who don't trust teachers are going to be getting down =
their necks because they haven't updated their learning plans and =
assessments :(<br> <br>Yep, it genuinely worries =
me<br><br>Neil<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/6 Ray Tolley =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;</spa=
n><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid =
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div =
bgcolor=3D"white" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-GB"> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Allistair,</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I like your style =
and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45 years at the =
chalkface.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about grades =
or graphs it is about progress and process. &nbsp;In other words where =
the learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get =
to.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the =
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child=92s progress =
through seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? =
&nbsp;And for that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 =
Meeting?</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well =
see the potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s progress =
which could then be accessed as near as anything at any point in time by =
(at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what =91real-time=92 =
reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive =
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of =
tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formative =
feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of =
collaborative self-assessments as and when =
completed.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">As others have said, we are at the brink of something very =
exciting.&nbsp; Let=92s all pull together in (approximately) the same =
direction!</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">BW</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"font-size: =
8pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);"><br> ICT Education Consultant<br> Maximise ICT Ltd<br> P:&nbsp; =
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">B:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);"><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br> W:&nbsp; =
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br> </span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of the IMS =
'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p> </div><div><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> <div> <div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) =
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium =
medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Alistair Goodwin<br> <b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br> =
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br> <b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] =
Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</span></p> </div> =
</div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hi Crispin et =
al</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Apologies for =
appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your =
recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate =
that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a =
really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's =
comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a =
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I have 2 =
favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long time =
ago on this subject.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The first quote is =
obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise :).</span></p> =
</div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> =
</div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The =
second is Einstein's:</span></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">"Not everything that can be counted counts, =
and not everything that counts can be counted."</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">(again, apologies =
to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I still like =
it)</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The piece of advice =
I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum levels is =
this;</span></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances =
are you're not that far out." - Pure genius.</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To me, =
teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the same =
pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what =
goes on where. Job done.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The rest is down to =
me 'teaching'. I know if I start&nbsp;discussing something with someone =
whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm saying / =
listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits =
I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write =
it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the =
sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are =
'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do =
this constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done =
this already at my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a =
different angle / perspective on it but that&nbsp;they still appear to =
be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this down. =
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. =
I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pub.</span></p> =
</div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> =
</div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I =
believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care =
about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in =
mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and =
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and =
colleagues allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If =
you as a teacher think you can do this better on-line, then great. I =
accept that and am happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I won't be joining =
you.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Furthermore, when I =
was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time as =
everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The =
grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I =
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more =
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear =
that that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to =
get that grade in that exam. What about it?</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To me, =
assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the lesson =
like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't =
clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how =
good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll =
soon work it out.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Draw a graph / =
don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me whatsoever. =
I never look at them.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Just to make my =
position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils on free =
school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're an =
idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite =
clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span></p> =
</div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> =
</div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I am =
confident that my views here will be seen by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of =
line and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More =
graphs, less emotion. God help us.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Isn't it about time =
that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go back to =
administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our =
lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;NEVER going to work. =
Natural administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and =
power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems =
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, =
music etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the =
Primary Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture =
because people will again get a chance to see that there is potentially =
more to life on planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung =
up on how much progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical =
neighbour'. No one even talks to their&nbsp;REAL neighbours anymore. =
Wake up. </span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Something is wrong =
and the current level of availability of online grades is really not =
likely to be the source of the problem.</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">There is =
only one purpose to life: To live.</span></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Take a deep =
breath... and begin.</span></p> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Alistair =
Goodwin</span></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hants</span></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">N.B. The views =
expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am =
perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div> =
<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: =
-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; =
border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;"> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">----- Original Message ----- </span></p> =
</div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, =
228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; =
-moz-background-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: =
continuous;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a =
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" =
title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">Crispin =
Weston</a> </span></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">'advisory'</a> =
</span></p> </div> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sent:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;"> Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM</span></p> </div> <div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Subject:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> RE: =
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span></p> </div> =
<div><div>&nbsp;<br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div> </div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hi =
all,</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I seem =
to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s comments and =
apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in =
response.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Mike. =
I agree.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have =
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose =
into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with Chris =
Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of =
their business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the =
service they offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the =
aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of the essential =
prerequisites beforehand.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of =
course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled =
individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion =
that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness =
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient =
and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into =
Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock =
and I am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems =
which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he =
receives teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not required to =
sit in a classroom for years on end being taught things that he either =
doesn=92t understand or already knows, just because the school hasn=92t =
bothered accurately to assess and track what that student=92s learning =
needs are.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">To =
respond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:</span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">You =
can't fatten a pig by weighing it!=94</span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I agree that you fatten a pig by =
feeding it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it =
by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to =
weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that you know nothing =
about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is completely dependent =
on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The systems that we have =
in place for doing this in education are generally extraordinarily =
primitive.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I have =
some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment </span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;">the =
graphs ? I seriously do not </span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;">understand where they fit in=94</span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">but the problem here is not the =
fact that the data is being collected but that it is not being used =
efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting =
data just for the sake of making pretty graphs. </span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So what *<b>is</b>* the point of =
collecting the data? It seems to me that one of the primary criteria of =
efficiency in education (putting aside motivation for a moment) is the =
correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teacher, there is a =
time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from =
*<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student =
must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. </span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So the key requirement for an =
efficient education system is managing progression, differentiation and =
personalisation to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of =
teaching at the right time =96 just as a farmer gives the right sort of =
food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer on the right =
bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom teacher, =
that is an extremely complex managerial task.</span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">We start from an extraordinarily =
antiquated system in which people are driven through the syllabus in =
age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over the top at the Somme in =
neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to have systems capable =
of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. This type of tracking =
of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so widely =
accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this =
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in =
education.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of =
course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an =
important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question of where =
the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This =
links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated =
if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 =
and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my =
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence =
systems is that they *<b>do</b>* treat people as individuals, even =
though there are large numbers of them in the =
system.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Ray: =
I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either for =
tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio </span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: =
navy;">J</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> but rather =
the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into =
these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of =
parents as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from =
implementing effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time =
reporting is a relatively recent government target does not undermine =
the fact that, internally, the requirement for business intelligence has =
been long-standing.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I =
support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so =
many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably =
to do anyone any good and end up with people saying =93real time =
reporting doesn=92t work=94. It is very important to manage the =
introduction of these projects properly and, in the case of real-time =
reporting, this means ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data =
to the reporting component.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hardly any of these components =
(real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really =
viable on its own =96 which is why interoperability ought to have been =
the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such a disaster that it =
wasn=92t. </span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Re. =
the Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with the point that =
this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is =
being automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When =
it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit =
down in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected =
automatically (and I think most people would agree that at the moment, =
the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the =
richer the online reporting to parents can become. </span></p><div><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@John. I agree that you need to =
show the right data to the right people in the right way (see comments =
on drowning in data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents =
probably want. But the fact that this is what you show to parents does =
not mean that you should not be tracking other types of data as well, =
which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or processed =
form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and competency which =
the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware =
of.</span></p><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Neil: =
I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My =
responses inline.</span></p> <div style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color =
-moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; =
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><br> All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are =
not "articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <span =
style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">I don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece =
of work demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! =
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of course I exaggerate a bit and =
a binary =93bleep=94 does not represent particularly high quality data =96=
 but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You =
will get teachers to input comments wherever possible =96 and make it as =
easy as possible for them to do so =96 but teacher comments are (a) =
expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big =
gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to =
do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which =
is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated =
wherever possible.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and =
outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. =
But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when =
analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models =
probability really quite well.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">That is the problem with software and =
(even) performance/competency data - much of it has a subjective element =
that "learning<span style=3D"color: navy;"> </span>software (really =
useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and =
post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of =
"softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but which =
are vital to modern life.<span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So, following from above, I =
agree about the subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as =
the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I would call any measure of =
competency a =93competency claim=94, just as a philosopher might talk =
about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to see a large number of =
competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree of =
consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s competency =
with some degree of confidence.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence =
(e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. =
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective =
element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The =
subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and =
compensated for.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Also, I am =
proposing the measurement of competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an =
*<b>output</b>* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to =
be weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but =
they are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on =
long division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very =
great harm has been done and the decision to make that intervention can =
be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of =
business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the =
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional judgement of the teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of =
the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled =
into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">And finally, while some =93soft=94=
 competencies are very subjective, others are actually pretty =
straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab within a =
particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered =
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of =
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is =
pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the =
skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not =
be put in front of a class of students who have not acquired the basic =
knowledge which will allow them to access the particular thing that the =
skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry=92s =
approach combines business intelligence with flexible grouping and =
staffing systems.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:=
 12pt;">The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher =
workload through automation, but there comes a point at which we have to =
ask "what can be reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist =
approach is creating more and more problems with SATs (let alone =
workload involved) as it becomes harder and harder to align the =
capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of course begs the =
whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <span style=3D"color: =
navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I think I agree =
with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a paragraph of =
bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us) is =
sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph =
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate =
results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition =
as a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a continuous process of =
moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do =
anyway.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;">At the moment people are (because the current system is more =
reductionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are =
going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to =
the next stage of education and into work actually more capable (as =
against "competent")? I think not.<span style=3D"color: =
navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I don=92t see any =
problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The traditional =
academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original and =
creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that =
I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising =
along in classrooms. OK =96 the academic essay is not appropriate to =
many students and many types of examination =96 but I think that a =
properly reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with =
tests which do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the =
regurgitation of rote learning.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">So, are we chasing our tails by thinking =
we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? <span =
style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer =
and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =
=96 others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be =
made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. =
The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my =
thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">or does the =
VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? <span style=3D"color: =
navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I think in many =
respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty skimpy =
dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will =
see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the long =
delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires =
some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE =
throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system. =
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I tend =
to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the much =
vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is =
delivered.<span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather =
spooky) total AI solution =96 rather *<b>sufficient</b>* intelligence =
for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always coming =
back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replacing, =
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store =
manager. People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked =
up about dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them =
all the time and that the robots are fantastically useful.</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I believe we should =
be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to =
teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a =
data-driven dream.<span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I do not think that =
resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are separable. =
To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents (i.e. data). =
It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every time it =
launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation =
file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can save state =
(data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the =
class to do something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what the =
students have done, if anything?</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at =
the moment (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB =
Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning content is =
=93static=94 and not data aware =96 it does not contextualise, =
personalise, adapt and report.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">Much of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it =
works in the background. People drown not because the sea is big but =
because they can=92t swim. People =93drown in data=94 not because there =
is too much data but because it is not understandable or because it is =
not useful or they are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John =
Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attendance records but =
they do like to receive a text message when their child hasn=92t turned =
up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about the presentation of =
data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.</span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">One of the characteristics of =
modern technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler =
to use. Good software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and =
present to the teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute =
parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as =
required.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">In summary, my =
position is that data is the life-blood of any modern business and =
education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business. =
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Some data is very =
straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So =
create systems which run the right horse on the right course. Codify and =
measure where you can (because codification allows automation), use free =
text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can=92t see the =
problem.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Ultimately, it =
doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should benefit =
from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same =
time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the =
service that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit =
some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management =
techniques does not run.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more =
stirring!</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: =
navy;">Crispin.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
12pt;"><br> <br> </p> <div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">2010/1/5 Crispin =
Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;</p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">It has always struck me that the real-time reporting =
agenda has a massive<br> missing piece: where is the data that you are =
meant to be reporting on?<br> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head =
Teacher from Kent) made an<br> excellent presentation at the NAACE =
autumn conference, pointing out that<br> while Tesco analyses data on =
virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing<br> preferences, schools =
are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort<br> of =
Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br> useful performance or competency data in their systems. =
There's a big<br> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about =
the only useful<br> real-time data that schools have.<br> The feet of =
clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br> manual =
input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay =
in<br> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) =
can report student<br> performance and competence straight into central =
systems, which must also of<br> course be able to make sense of that =
data.<br> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is =
sorted out, most<br> of the energy in real time reporting programme will =
go on covering up the<br> fact that schools will simply be unable to =
deliver what has been promised by<br> the government.<br> Crispin.<br> =
<br> <br> &gt; -----Original Message-----<br> &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br> &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On Behalf Of Colin J =
Revell<br> &gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br> &gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br> &gt; Subject: =
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Some thought =
for comment;<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling =
out secure online access to<br> &gt; parents<br> &gt; I find it =
interesting that there is very little "official"<br> &gt; information =
about<br> &gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for =
real time<br> &gt; reporting<br> &gt; to parents or similar, you mainly =
get references to the letter that<br> &gt; Ed Balls<br> &gt; released at =
BETT in Jan 2008.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Where is the official guidance of =
exactly what has to be done, by<br> &gt; whom and<br> &gt; by when - as =
far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br> &gt; and I =
am<br> &gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the =
momentum for<br> &gt; this<br> &gt; change is coming from the MIS =
providers?<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Colin<br> &gt;<br> &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<br> &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br> &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br> &gt; On Behalf Of Tony =
Parkin<br> &gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br> &gt; To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br> &gt; Cc: Ray =
Tolley<br> &gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting =
in Primary<br> &gt; Schools<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Fergus<br> &gt;<br> &gt; =
... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br> &gt; journey<br> &gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as =
currently delineated on the<br> &gt; Becta<br> &gt; website.....?<br> =
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br> =
&gt; offerings<br> &gt; measure up against these requirements?<br> =
&gt;<br> &gt; "What is online reporting?<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Online =
reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<br> &gt; =
access<br> &gt; information about their children's work, progress, =
attendance and<br> &gt; behaviour<br> &gt; when and where they want, =
using secure, online access.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; What do I have to do and =
when?<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the =
following information<br> &gt; available<br> &gt; to parents through =
secure online access by September 2010:<br> &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * =
Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br> &gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br> &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special =
needs<br> &gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by =
September 2012."<br> &gt;<br> &gt; It is worth noting that not all these =
aspects are addressed in some<br> &gt; of the<br> &gt; solutions being =
promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br> &gt; =
aspirations.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', =
though clearly invaluable<br> &gt; and<br> &gt; undoubtedly welcomed by =
parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Tony<br> =
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br> &gt; Tony =
Parkin<br> &gt; Head of ICT Development<br> &gt; Specialist Schools =
&amp; Academies Trust<br> &gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br> &gt; 21-24 =
Millbank<br> &gt; London SW1P 4QP<br> &gt;<br> &gt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br> &gt; Tel: =
+44 20 7802 2306<br> &gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br> &gt; Skype: =
parkintony<br> &gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br> &gt; =
--------------------------------------------<br> &gt; =
________________________________________<br> &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [secondary-<br> =
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On<br> &gt; Behalf Of Ray =
Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br> &gt; Sent: 31 December =
2009 12:41<br> &gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br> &gt; Subject: =
[Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br> &gt; =
Schools<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Hi, Fergus,<br> &gt;<br> &gt; I agree with =
Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past<br> &gt; =
experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
&nbsp;I<br> &gt; did a<br> &gt; quick phone-round of some of the =
suppliers but unfortunately they<br> &gt; were all<br> &gt; on =
holiday.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of =
on-line reporting and will<br> &gt; 'interrogate' leading known =
suppliers as to how they see on-line<br> &gt; reporting<br> &gt; moving =
in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br> &gt; =
next<br> &gt; week.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that =
there are three different aspects to<br> &gt; this<br> &gt; issue:<br> =
&gt;<br> &gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br> &gt; through<br> &gt; activities completed using some form =
of assessment software like<br> &gt; 'SmartAssess';<br> &gt; 2. =
&nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br> &gt; date,<br> &gt; such as provided by =
SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br> &gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly =
informal reporting available through<br> &gt; a good<br> &gt; =
e-Portfolio system.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; I'm sure that there are several =
other competitive products - but<br> &gt; firstly it<br> &gt; will =
depend on your present VLE provider.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT =
will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<br> &gt; degree =
of<br> &gt; 'sales pitch'.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Best Wishes,<br> &gt;<br> =
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br> &gt; ICT =
Education Consultant<br> &gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br> &gt; P: &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br> &gt; =
B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br> &gt; W: =
&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br> =
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br> &gt;<br> =
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br> &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" =
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[Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br> &gt;<br> &gt; =
Colleagues,<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or =
tips on developing online<br> &gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am =
interested in examples of good<br> &gt; practice and any suggestions =
colleagues may have to help avoid<br> &gt; pitfalls in getting going. I =
am also interested in any schools that<br> &gt; colleagues could =
recommend as examples of good practice in this area<br> &gt; -<br> &gt; =
especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br> =
&gt; appreciated.<br> &gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if =
colleagues prefer that. I<br> &gt; would be happy to collate responses =
if anyone would be interested in<br> &gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks =
in anticipation.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br> =
&gt;<br> &gt; Fergus Reynolds<br> &gt; =
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From mike@new-media-learning.org  Thu Jan  7 10:18:22 2010
From: mike@new-media-learning.org (Mike Bostock)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:18:22 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <019f01ca8f22$eba50140$c2ef03c0$@co.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001051536o3ab0751ci850cdc1c20f1e7ec@mail.gmail.com> <39530DFE95024A6BA9AB8D32B5FD268C@DEVELOPMENT> <78B938CFCF75D2438C6560EB28F6D4E51E83CFA5@winxbeuk02.exchange.xchg> <019f01ca8f22$eba50140$c2ef03c0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <001801ca8f82$bf4a52c0$3ddef840$@org>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dear All,

What encourages me greatly about this discussion is that this community
clearly has so much to contribute to the subject of the use of electronic
data in education.  Naace has already run a couple of events that have
served to clarify our collective views on this subject.  I do hope that it
will continue to use the expertise of members in this way in order that we
can better advise schools.

The fascinating part of this discussion is that it forces us to examine the
human/machine interface

 and the relationship between the information that resides in the brain of
the teacher and the complement of data that is handled by a school
Management Information System.  The many reasons for needing the latter
include the need to join a teacher's collective thoughts about how well
their pupils are doing with the systems that enable  a school to perform its
functions, including communicating to parents.  

I don't think that there can be any doubt that we will see advances in this
area.  Education isn't such a mystical, indefinable process that the
teaching profession can't make the sorts of advances in the use of data that
other professions have. It just needs a continued professional debate to
ensure that developments in this area are sensible. Naace is in the right
place to take a lead on this.

The parallel is in the development of 'business intelligence tools'. The
difficulty of applying these ideas directly to education lies in the
arguments that have been presented by contributors to this discussion.  
The development of young people isn't a commodity, yet the provision of
educational opportunity is something that costs money, and accountability
will need be informed by evidence of process and outcomes. The public needs
to know how well the nation's pupils are being educated.

The design problem with making greater use of ICT to manage learning is to
harmonise the complexity of a professional judgment about a pupil's learning
progress with the need to formalise and quantise that judgment so that it
can be communicated.  Assessment has highly simplistic origins, yes/no, 7/10
etc. which has the acute advantage of brevity. This is fitting for a summary
but unhelpful for diagnostic purposes.  The level of refinement of the
information needed will depend on the purpose. In order to make progress on
this it will be necessary to define what constitutes a 'professional
judgment' in each case.  That judgment will be built from a mix of criteria
informed by experience; but it should always be possible to define the
criteria in each case (even if they may be great in number).  There are
parallels here with the debate on whether computers can mark essays.

A big problem area is data capture. How do you transcribe professional
judgment into machine-readable form?  Rightly we don't want to see teachers
spending any more time than is necessary in recording data manually.
Further development is needed in this area. The live capture of data as a
pupil works with a Learning Platform is a promising companion area of
development.  A popular trend towards using data 'dashboards' has parallels
with the doctor's stethoscope. Making more sophisticated use of the data
already available to us from a combination of sources is another promising
avenue - and SALTIS is right here to criticise the sluggish progress being
made on interconnectivity by those who represent us.

As a group, we can comment on retrograde steps into this territory.  If data
systems are being far too simplistic in how they present information we can
point this out. If the methods they use are statistically dubious then we
can say so.  If the consequences to teacher workload are detrimental we can
indicate our opposition. If developments are being held back by
anti-competitiveness or bureaucracy  we can shout about it.

But we can also get stuck in and acknowledge that the use of electronic data
is a major area of professional interest for many of us, and seek to
influence and accelerate developments in this area that will promote this
other critical use of ICT in education.

Mike Bostock







 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 06 January 2010 22:52
To: 'Williamson, Jon'; 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Jon et al,

 

Apologies for having a second bite of this particular cherry but I am
pleased to see the data debate unfolding. Metaphors and analogies are useful
and I for one have used the' weighing pigs' but recognise it only serves to
exaggerate a point.

 

My greatest concern however is that the result of many and various
educational interventions has been the gradual degradation of teacher
professionalism over the last 20 years or so. Meaningful data is the
judgemental performance data witnessed by the teacher in the classroom
minute by minute. It is recorded in the most super of super computers - the
human brain. On occasions there can be data overload or a sensory input
device might miss a student or two grasp (or fail to grasp)  a desired
learning outcome, but well planned lessons by enthusiastic and motivated
teachers usually systematically embrace  inbuilt backup protocols and rerun
system checks regularly. I recall trying to visualise to colleagues in my
science department how  student learning might be portrayed like the
graphical equaliser display on what was then my new Amstrad stereo (early
1970's).  That metaphor encouraged teachers and students to recognise that
any component of their learning might go down as well as up on occasions but
overall and over time we are looking at upward trend (like slowly turning up
the volume)

 

As you can tell, I started teaching way before Data was a character in
Startrek, but we still used regular retrospective analysis from exam results
- identified areas for action, identified groups of students who found core
concepts difficult and identified strategies to support students with hard
(for them) to learn ideas and content. Some data is critical e.g. attendance
data at school and at lesson level. If pupils are not there they are
unlikely to be learning. Knowing that and doing something about is another
thing. Similarly data to monitor progress against national benchmarks is
valuable but good teachers will do that when it is appropriate which in some
subjects/topics/themes  can be at very different time intervals. Data
systems currently appear to rigidly inflexible, either that or all school
data-managers are morons (which I doubt very much!) Therefore systems which
require points scores, national curriculum levels with qualifiers, automatic
target set projections are less than helpful. Tongue in cheek I would argue
that the amount of time most teachers spent on data collection and input, so
called data analysis and target setting has a disproportionately negative
impact on any student progress.

 

Most schools do not differentiate or recognise the progress made by students
in subjects with varying time allocations. For example typically a year 7
student will receive 3 Science lessons per week. By half term that student
will have met with their Science teacher 27 times and experienced
considerable opportunities through lesson and homework to demonstrate a
range of learning facets and a range of different of contexts. By contrast a
1 lesson per week subject such as Music or ICT the same student may well
only have experienced 9 lessons. Teachers of all subjects in the vast
majority of schools (there are a few enlightened ones somewhere I believe)
are being asked to produce performance data with the same frequency and the
same regularity and are expected to demonstrate students are making the same
progress. What do I report - this student is a level 4c in modelling with
Excel projected ICT target by end of Y9 level 6 and a by year 11 a Grade B
equivalent at GCSE. All that information gleaned from a bit of data captured
after just 9 lessons in one topic. 

 

I know Crispin et al are talking of smart data, data that enhances what goes
on in the classroom. I still come back to the fact that real smart data
comes from the interaction between teacher and pupil.Yes supermarket data is
very smart, calculating buyer preferences, identifying stock shortages,
predicting seasonal trends is good business sense but is the system smart
enough to recognise that an aubergine used in a recipe on last weeks "Can't
cook wont cook" will increase aubergine demand this Tuesday by 37%. It is
right and proper for data driven models to be used in situations that are no
longer faced up by humans. My local greengrocer responds to his customers
and although I pay a little more he will always try to oblige his customers.
He listens and whenever possible he responds. If we ask for an aubergine and
it is not in the shop he apologises and says will tomorrow be OK. In the
supermarket the response is usually 'system error'.

I make no apologies when the teacher in me plus the parent and grandparent
believes that education is a about human endeavour. Schooling and learning
require carefully negotiated relationships between teacher, student and
parent/carer. ICT has a huge part to play in supporting all of the things
that teachers now have to do and effective communication with all
stakeholders, also  ICT can make teaching fun, motivational, engaging and
exciting. My view is that data for online reporting has a tiny tiny place in
all of this. Schools are about people and not systems and if systems are
used they should support not determine what goes on in the classroom. 

 

 

regards,

 

John

 

John Wasteney

Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960

Mob:07810 446176 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Williamson, Jon
Sent: 06 January 2010 15:01
To: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Hi all,

 

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the NFER has been
grappling with for a while.  It is obviously true that you do not fatten a
pig by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice that you have
underfed it if you don't.  As has been noted in many recent reports it is
important to understand why you are assessing, or generally generating data.
The Expert Group report on assessment last year had four key purposes for
assessment:

.         to optimise the effectiveness of pupils' learning and teachers'
teaching

.         to hold individual schools accountable for their performance

.         to provide parents with information about their child's progress

.         to provide reliable information about national standards over time

 

All of these are important in their own right, but issues arise when one
assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to do too much.

 

What we have found in attempting to address the first bullet point by
creating a formative e-assessment system that generates formative
qualitative information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be used
to directly impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info is
at  <http://www.i-nfer.co.uk> www.i-nfer.co.uk] is that a lot of other
summative information falls out along the way - information that could be
used to provide meaningful live data to parents.  However, as has been noted
by others, there is no current structure into which this data could be
inserted - one possible avenue may be the Government's much vaunted "Report
Cards".

 

A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do not understand how to
use data.  That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as
huge tables of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a
challenge to teachers that they should be making better use of data to
improve classroom teaching. 

 

 

Jon Williamson

Managing Director

 

i-nfer assessment ltd

personalising assessment

 <http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/> www.i-nfer.co.uk

 

See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 January, Stand S33 

 

Tel: 01403 782 461

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From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 06 January 2010 08:18
To: 'Neil Adam'
Cc: 'advisory'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Thanks Neil.

 

I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done and that change
is a problem. I don't think that the way to introduce change is by beating
teachers round the head to do what may well be the impossible in current
circumstances.

 

My recipe for change is:

 

1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I believe to be
critical, in close consultation with industry;

2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements to offer whatever
innovative learning technology solutions they can dream up;

3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions that make sense to
them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives easier.

 

And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on what works in the
current environment.

 

Crispin.

 

 

  _____  

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 23:36
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Great response Crispin

Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be
able to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear
they'll stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and
does add some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(

Neil


-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#17365D'>Dear All,<br>
<br>
What encourages me greatly about this discussion is that this community =
clearly
has so much to contribute to the subject of the use of electronic data =
in education.
&nbsp;Naace has already run a couple of events that have served to =
clarify our
collective views on this subject. &nbsp;I do hope that it will continue =
to use
the expertise of members in this way in order that we can better advise =
schools.<br>
<br>
The fascinating part of this discussion is that it forces us to examine =
the
human/machine interface<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#17365D'>&nbsp;and the relationship between the information that =
resides
in the brain of the teacher and the complement of data that is handled =
by a
school Management Information System. &nbsp;The many reasons for needing =
the
latter include the need to join a teacher&#8217;s collective thoughts =
about how
well their pupils are doing with the systems that enable &nbsp;a school =
to
perform its functions, including communicating to parents. &nbsp;<br>
<br>
I don&#8217;t think that there can be any doubt that we will see =
advances in
this area. &nbsp;Education isn&#8217;t such a mystical, indefinable =
process that
the teaching profession can&#8217;t make the sorts of advances in the =
use of
data that other professions have. It just needs a continued professional =
debate
to ensure that developments in this area are sensible. Naace is in the =
right
place to take a lead on this.<br>
<br>
The parallel is in the development of &#8216;business intelligence =
tools&#8217;.
The difficulty of applying these ideas directly to education lies in the
arguments that have been presented by contributors to this discussion. =
&nbsp;<br>
The development of young people isn&#8217;t a commodity, yet the =
provision of
educational opportunity is something that costs money, and =
accountability will
need be informed by evidence of process and outcomes. The public needs =
to know
how well the nation&#8217;s pupils are being educated.<br>
<br>
The design problem with making greater use of ICT to manage learning is =
to
harmonise the complexity of a professional judgment about a =
pupil&#8217;s learning
progress with the need to formalise and quantise that judgment so that =
it can
be communicated. &nbsp;Assessment has highly simplistic origins, yes/no, =
7/10
etc. which has the acute advantage of brevity. This is fitting for a =
summary
but unhelpful for diagnostic purposes. &nbsp;The level of refinement of =
the
information needed will depend on the purpose. In order to make progress =
on
this it will be necessary to define what constitutes a =
&#8216;professional
judgment&#8217; in each case. &nbsp;That judgment will be built from a =
mix of
criteria informed by experience; but it should always be possible to =
define the
criteria in each case (even if they may be great in number).&nbsp; There =
are
parallels here with the debate on whether computers can mark essays.<br>
<br>
A big problem area is data capture. How do you transcribe professional =
judgment
into machine-readable form? &nbsp;Rightly we don&#8217;t want to see =
teachers
spending any more time than is necessary in recording data =
manually.&nbsp; Further
development is needed in this area. The live capture of data as a pupil =
works
with a Learning Platform is a promising companion area of development. =
&nbsp;A
popular trend towards using data &#8216;dashboards&#8217; has parallels =
with
the doctor&#8217;s stethoscope. Making more sophisticated use of the =
data
already available to us from a combination of sources is another =
promising
avenue - and SALTIS is right here to criticise the sluggish progress =
being made
on interconnectivity by those who represent us.<br>
<br>
As a group, we can comment on retrograde steps into this territory. =
&nbsp;If data
systems are being far too simplistic in how they present information we =
can point
this out. If the methods they use are statistically dubious then we can =
say so.&nbsp;
If the consequences to teacher workload are detrimental we can indicate =
our opposition.
If developments are being held back by anti-competitiveness or =
bureaucracy &nbsp;we
can shout about it.<br>
<br>
But we can also get stuck in and acknowledge that the use of electronic =
data is
a major area of professional interest for many of us, and seek to =
influence and
accelerate developments in this area that will promote this other =
critical use
of ICT in education.<br>
<br>
Mike Bostock<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#17365D'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John =
Wasteney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 22:52<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Williamson, Jon'; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Jon et al,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Apologies for having a second bite of this =
particular cherry
but I am pleased to see the data debate unfolding. Metaphors and =
analogies are
useful and I for one have used the&#8217; weighing pigs&#8217; but =
recognise it
only serves to exaggerate a point.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>My greatest concern however is that the result of =
many and
various educational interventions has been the gradual degradation of =
teacher
professionalism over the last 20 years or so. Meaningful data is the
judgemental performance data witnessed by the teacher in the classroom =
minute
by minute. It is recorded in the most super of super computers - the =
human
brain. On occasions there can be data overload or a sensory input device =
might
miss a student or two grasp (or fail to grasp)&nbsp; a desired learning
outcome, but well planned lessons by enthusiastic and motivated teachers
usually systematically embrace&nbsp; inbuilt backup protocols and rerun =
system
checks regularly. I recall trying to visualise to colleagues in my =
science
department how&nbsp; student learning might be portrayed like the =
graphical
equaliser display on what was then my new Amstrad stereo (early
1970&#8217;s).&nbsp; That metaphor encouraged teachers and students to
recognise that any component of their learning might go down as well as =
up on
occasions but overall and over time we are looking at upward trend (like =
slowly
turning up the volume)<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>As you can tell, I started teaching way before Data =
was a
character in Startrek, but we still used regular retrospective analysis =
from
exam results &#8211; identified areas for action, identified groups of =
students
who found core concepts difficult and identified strategies to support =
students
with hard (for them) to learn ideas and content. Some data is critical =
e.g.
attendance data at school and at lesson level. If pupils are not there =
they are
unlikely to be learning. Knowing that and doing something about is =
another
thing. Similarly data to monitor progress against national benchmarks is
valuable but good teachers will do that when it is appropriate which in =
some
subjects/topics/themes&nbsp; can be at very different time intervals. =
Data
systems currently appear to rigidly inflexible, either that or all =
school
data-managers are morons (which I doubt very much!) Therefore systems =
which
require points scores, national curriculum levels with qualifiers, =
automatic target
set projections are less than helpful. Tongue in cheek I would argue =
that the
amount of time most teachers spent on data collection and input, so =
called data
analysis and target setting has a disproportionately negative impact on =
any
student progress.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Most schools do not differentiate or recognise the =
progress
made by students in subjects with varying time allocations. For example
typically a year 7 student will receive 3 Science lessons per week. By =
half
term that student will have met with their Science teacher 27 times and
experienced considerable opportunities through lesson and homework to
demonstrate a range of learning facets and a range of different of =
contexts. By
contrast a 1 lesson per week subject such as Music or ICT the same =
student may
well only have experienced 9 lessons. Teachers of all subjects in the =
vast
majority of schools (there are a few enlightened ones somewhere I =
believe) are
being asked to produce performance data with the same frequency and the =
same
regularity and are expected to demonstrate students are making the same
progress. What do I report &#8211; this student is a level 4c in =
modelling with
Excel projected ICT target by end of Y9 level 6 and a by year 11 a Grade =
B
equivalent at GCSE. All that information gleaned from a bit of data =
captured
after just 9 lessons in one topic. <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>I know Crispin et al are talking of smart data, =
data that
enhances what goes on in the classroom. I still come back to the fact =
that real
smart data comes from the interaction between teacher and pupil.Yes =
supermarket
data is very smart, calculating buyer preferences, identifying stock =
shortages,
predicting seasonal trends is good business sense but is the system =
smart
enough to recognise that an aubergine used in a recipe on last weeks =
&#8220;Can&#8217;t
cook wont cook&#8221; will increase aubergine demand this Tuesday by =
37%. It is
right and proper for data driven models to be used in situations that =
are no
longer faced up by humans. My local greengrocer responds to his =
customers and
although I pay a little more he will always try to oblige his customers. =
He
listens and whenever possible he responds. If we ask for an aubergine =
and it is
not in the shop he apologises and says will tomorrow be OK. In the =
supermarket
the response is usually &#8216;system error&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>I make no apologies when the teacher in me plus the =
parent
and grandparent&nbsp; believes that education is a about human =
endeavour.
Schooling and learning require carefully negotiated relationships =
between
teacher, student and parent/carer. ICT has a huge part to play in =
supporting
all of the things that teachers now have to do and effective =
communication with
all stakeholders, also&nbsp; ICT can make teaching fun, motivational, =
engaging
and exciting. My view is that data for online reporting has a tiny tiny =
place
in all of this. Schools are about people and not systems and if systems =
are
used they should support not determine what goes on in the classroom. =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>John Wasteney<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Managing Director<br>
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd<br>
<br>
Tel: 01455 290960<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mob:07810 446176 <br>
<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Williamson, Jon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 15:01<br>
<b>To:</b> 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is a very interesting discussion, and one that the =
NFER has
been grappling with for a while.&nbsp; It is obviously true that you do =
not
fatten a pig by weighing it; but by the same token, you may not notice =
that you
have underfed it if you don&#8217;t.&nbsp; As has been noted in many =
recent
reports it is important to understand why you are assessing, or =
generally
generating data.&nbsp; The Expert Group report on assessment last year =
had four
key purposes for assessment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to optimise the effectiveness of pupils&#8217; learning =
and
teachers&#8217; teaching<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to hold individual schools accountable for their =
performance<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide parents with information about their =
child&#8217;s
progress<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&middot;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>to provide reliable information about national standards =
over
time<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>All of these are important in their own right, but issues =
arise
when one assessment system (e.g. National Curriculum tests) is asked to =
do too
much.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What we have found in attempting to address the first =
bullet
point by creating a formative e-assessment system that generates =
formative
qualitative information to teachers (not graphs and tables) that can be =
used to
directly impact teaching [declare a commercial interest, but more info =
is at </span><a
href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk"><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.=
co.uk</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>] is
that a lot of other summative information falls out along the way =
&#8211;
information that could be used to provide meaningful live data to
parents.&nbsp; However, as has been noted by others, there is no current
structure into which this data could be inserted &#8211; one possible =
avenue
may be the Government&#8217;s much vaunted &#8220;Report =
Cards&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A big issues in schools today is that many teachers do =
not
understand how to use data.&nbsp; That is often the fault of data =
providers for
providing it as huge tables of data and graphs with limited =
interpretation, but
also a challenge to teachers that they should be making better use of =
data to
improve classroom teaching. <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jon Williamson<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Managing Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>i-nfer assessment =
ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>personalising =
assessment<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a href=3D"http://www.i-nfer.co.uk/"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.i-nfer.=
co.uk</span></a><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>See us at BETT 2010; 13-16 =
January, Stand
S33 <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Tel: 01403 782 461<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Mobile 07710 457 645<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
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and read e-mails sent or received by our employees.&nbsp; If you do not =
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i-nfer and no liability will be accepted.&nbsp; Any legally binding =
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resulting from its content must be made separately in a printed =
medium.</span><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Registered Office: The Mere, Upton Park, Slough, =
Berkshire, SL1
2DQ<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Company No:&nbsp; 05946075 =
(England)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>VAT No: 900 0616 83<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin =
Weston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 08:18<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Thanks Neil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I am sure you are right that it is all easier said than done =
and
that change is a problem. I don&#8217;t think that the way to introduce =
change
is by beating teachers round the head to do what may well be the =
impossible in
current circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>My recipe for change is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>1. Put in place the key interoperability standards which I =
believe
to be critical, in close consultation with =
industry;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>2. Free the industry from restrictive central procurements =
to offer
whatever innovative learning technology solutions they can dream =
up;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>3. Free teachers and school leaders to buy the solutions =
that make
sense to them, deliver better learning to children and make their lives =
easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>And in the meantime, I am sure you are right to focus on =
what works
in the current environment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 23:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><span
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Great response Crispin<br>
<br>
Still not sure that people are able to see the big enough picture nto be =
able
to use data-driven system responsibly in the way you describe. I fear =
they'll
stick with the easy tick-box stuff that can be readily processed and =
does add
some value but largely brings systems in to disrepute :(<br>
<br>
Neil<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for =
those
in the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let =
me
know, delete the message and any attachments, and please do not forward =
the
material to anyone else.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CA8F82.BF4A52C0--


From csmith@csmith.info  Thu Jan  7 12:15:20 2010
From: csmith@csmith.info (Chris Smith)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:15:20 +0700
Subject: [Advisory] REPLY: Online Reporting (Schools) ... a topic for GWave?
In-Reply-To: <20100106182801.17849.40607.Mailman@mx4.rmplc.co.uk>
References: <20100106182801.17849.40607.Mailman@mx4.rmplc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <370D761E8B5B4AEDBF1EE0FA455CF60C@SHAMBLESSONY3>

Over the last week or so I've watched the Naace listserv emails on "Online
Reporting" fly around ... some have been too long to read and some I
completely lost the thread of discussion.

But I have this feeling that there is (was) some useful stuff there that
would be of interest.

This is where I'm sad that the Naace listserv does not have threaded
archiving  (I wonder if someone is going to write to me and say "it does"
...)

I suspect that this would be the sort of topic that would have benefitted
from using Google's Wave.

I'd have been tempted to set it up ... but one of my own learning
experiences is that public WAVES have a half-life of less than a month ...
before the public really does arrive and completely ruins the wave.

Any thoughts ... anyone.?

Best wishes to all Naacers for Twenty Ten .... 

Chris

Google Wave
shambles.guru@googlewave.com
 
Second Life: Shamblesguru Voom
Twitter: shamblesguru   Skype: cthsmith
ePortfolio www.shambles.net/csmith
w-shops www.shambles.net/csmith/workshops
-----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Smith  :  email: csmith@csmith.info
Personal Learning Network: www.shambles.net/csmith/pln
YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/shamblesguru
Based in Thailand, working across S.E.Asia
The Education Project Asia www.shambles.net   
Support for ICT across the Curriculum (consultancy)
'It's out there somewhere, the trick is finding it'
-----------------------------------------------------------
International Schools Island in Second Life
Indexing S.L. for Educators in S.L. itself
SLURL http://tinyurl.com/2o44dw
-----------------------------------------------------------


From allison.allen@outstream.co.uk  Thu Jan  7 14:59:08 2010
From: allison.allen@outstream.co.uk (Allison Allen)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:59:08 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B11@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
 <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk>
 <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
 <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B11@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>
Message-ID: <05B61107ADE5754D95CFDABCB010BD9438A1128938@MAIL3.lgflmail.org>

--_000_05B61107ADE5754D95CFDABCB010BD9438A1128938MAIL3lgflmail_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think it is essential Fiona!  What else is personalised learning about?

Best Wishes

Allison Allen

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org=
] On Behalf Of Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Sent: 06 January 2010 18:33
To: 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious=
 rant

In parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide a=
nd the consequent engagement of parents,

What are people's views on the role of learner's (EY upwards) reporting on =
their own learning?

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

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From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:04
To: Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Ray

It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" for pe=
ople to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be usele=
ss when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless you hav=
e standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically "personalise=
" without much user input, plus "business intelligence" systems that can th=
en trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learning plan=
s then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of cr=
edible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a fam=
ily, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than update =
the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to please some =
pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their child did at =
school *today*.

The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they have ope=
ned Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, not last=
 week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to suppl=
y it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that what =
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the=
 classroom.)

Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust =
teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't upda=
ted their learning plans and assessments :(

Yep, it genuinely worries me

Neil
2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>>
Allistair,

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45 =
years at the chalkface.

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is=
 about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come fro=
m, where they are now and where they want to get to.

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will =
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual e=
vidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being sud=
denly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the po=
tential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be =
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time) teacher=
s.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure on the=
 teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written late =
at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive compilation of=
 formative feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of=
 collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's=
 all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org> [=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>]=
 On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Hi Crispin et al

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote=
). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appre=
ciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a re=
ally useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comme=
nts on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong deve=
lopment of this also.

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long t=
ime ago on this subject.

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwis=
e :).

The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, b=
ut I still like it)

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum l=
evels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." - =
Pure genius.

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the s=
ame pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of wha=
t goes on where. Job done.

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something w=
ith someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm sayin=
g / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits=
 I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of=
 the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meanin=
g. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and im=
percievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old schoo=
l, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it =
but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or m=
ay not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or th=
e pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care abo=
ut where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in mains=
tream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen squa=
re. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to=
 develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you c=
an do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.=
 I won't be joining you.

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the =
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not=
. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I =
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'=
 that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in=
 that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in tha=
t exam. What about it?

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the les=
son like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't clea=
rly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it=
 out.

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me =
whatsoever. I never look at them.

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupi=
ls on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're =
an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly=
, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and u=
nprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less em=
otion. God help us.

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just =
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like=
 our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according =
to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural a=
dministrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They=
 will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly inval=
idating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, t=
he new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review =
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a =
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this=
 week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades i=
s really not likely to be the source of the problem.

There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.


Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am =
perfectly happy to share them :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Weston<mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: 'advisory'<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Hi all,

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and=
 apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

@Mike. I agree.

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood =
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.=
  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become mo=
re like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, o=
f course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time re=
porting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of=
 the essential prerequisites beforehand.

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled=
 individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that e=
fficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little =
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to th=
eir needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they h=
ave my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) gratef=
ul for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A studen=
t becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant to h=
is needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end being t=
aught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just becau=
se the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that stud=
ent's learning needs are.

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and=
 what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that=
 he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you tha=
t you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is comp=
letely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The systems =
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily primitive.

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment

"the graphs ? I seriously do not
understand where they fit in"

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but t=
hat it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no ben=
efit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of t=
he primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation fo=
r a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teac=
her, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from=
 *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must hav=
e mastered the necessary prerequisites.

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing progre=
ssion, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right student=
 gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer gives =
the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer=
 on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom t=
eacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are driv=
en through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over=
 the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to =
have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This ty=
pe of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so =
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this di=
scussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an=
 important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the d=
ata comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back=
 to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system=
 is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more motiva=
ted if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The whole po=
int of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat people =
as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the system.

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either =
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio :) but rather the dif=
ficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these syste=
ms. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a pre=
-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective in=
ternal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively recent=
 government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requir=
ement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many=
 other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some Secr=
etary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants who=
 are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone an=
y good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work". It=
 is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly an=
d, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a =
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning =
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why interoperabili=
ty ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such =
a disaster that it wasn't.

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that t=
his is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being =
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes =
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the ev=
ening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically (and=
 I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data being=
 collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reportin=
g to parents can become.

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in =
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your a=
nalysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you s=
how to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of=
 data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or p=
rocessed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency w=
hich the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My =
responses inline.

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" t=
hat can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demo=
nstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent partic=
ularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and grad=
es are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever possibl=
e - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher comment=
s are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the=
 big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer =
to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which=
 is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated whe=
rever possible.
While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are su=
bjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjec=
tive buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprisi=
ng degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite well.
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful =
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into=
 your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills th=
at are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern lif=
e.
So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see thi=
s as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertaint=
y.
I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a phil=
osopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large numbe=
r of competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree =
of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency with =
some degree of confidence.
Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. stud=
ent output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative=
 data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be review=
ed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of =
particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an=
 *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak o=
n subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are giv=
en some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. =
If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been=
 done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.=
 Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to =
me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no =
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment, in=
tervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we al=
l know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is =
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are=
 actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within=
 a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered ac=
tivity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advan=
ced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty hum=
drum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate t=
eacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a=
 class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will all=
ow them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher ha=
s to offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligen=
ce with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through =
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be re=
asonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more a=
nd more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes hard=
er and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. Tha=
t of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a =
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us=
) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph =
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate resu=
lts data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as a "=
live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation, discus=
sion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist, =
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is =
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of e=
ducation and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I th=
ink not.
I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The=
 traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origina=
l and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising=
 along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many st=
udents and many types of examination - but I think that a properly reconsti=
tuted examination system should be able to come up with tests which do not =
reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-ass=
essed learning tasks?
I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and teach=
er. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily - others ca=
nnot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I a=
m writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether yo=
u agree with the views or not).
or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pret=
ty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think y=
ou will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the lon=
g delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires =
some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE th=
rone will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the mu=
ch vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is deli=
vered.
I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total =
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, wit=
h the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This i=
s all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarke=
t terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much As=
imov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without notici=
ng that they are using them all the time and that the robots are fantastica=
lly useful.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to=
 learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a=
 data-driven dream.
I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the oth=
er are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documen=
ts (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initiali=
sation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can save stat=
e (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the c=
lass to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the students h=
ave done, if anything?
One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment (=
and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data=
 aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the backg=
round. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't swim.=
 People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because it i=
s not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong=
 sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to s=
ee attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when their=
 child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about t=
he presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.
One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have=
 become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make=
 sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds =
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc fo=
r teacher as required.
In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern busine=
ss and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business.
Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective an=
d nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.=
 Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),=
 use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the pr=
oblem.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers shoul=
d benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the sa=
me time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the serv=
ice that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some s=
ort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniqu=
es does not run.
I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
Crispin.

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk<mailto:crispin.=
weston@alphalearning.co.uk>>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On Behalf Of Colin J R=
evell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [mailto:secondary-<mailto:secondary->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org=
.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk>
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.u=
k>]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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--

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in=
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--

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<div class=3DSection1>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>I
think it is essential Fiona!&nbsp; What else is personalised learning about=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:navy'>Best
Wishes</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00206=
0'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Allison Allen</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-fam=
ily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fiona Aubrey-Sm=
ith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 18:33<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>In
parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide and =
the
consequent engagement of parents, <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>What
are people&#8217;s views on the role of learner&#8217;s (EY upwards) report=
ing on their own
learning?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the mes=
sage
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.&nbsp; =
In
such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us immediately.&nbsp=
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you or your employer does not consent to internet email messages of this ki=
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serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:a=
dvisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 17:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ray<br>
<br>
It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take &quot;forever&qu=
ot;
for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be
useless when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless yo=
u
have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically &quot;per=
sonalise&quot;
without much user input, plus &quot;business intelligence&quot; systems tha=
t
can then trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learnin=
g
plans then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind o=
f
credible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a
family, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than upda=
te
the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to please some
pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their child did at
school *today*.<br>
<br>
The problem is that the politicians have said &quot;real time&quot;, so the=
y
have opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, =
not
last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to
supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that =
what
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the
classroom.)<br>
<br>
Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he
admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust teac=
hers
are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't updated their
learning plans and assessments :(<br>
<br>
Yep, it genuinely worries me<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/6 Ray Tolley &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Allistair,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate w=
here
you are coming from after my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting &#=
8216;thing&#8217;
is not about grades or graphs it is about progress and process. &nbsp;In ot=
her
words where the learner has come from, where they are now and where they wa=
nt
to get to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previ=
ously
suggest that the parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#82=
17;s
progress through seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made=
?
&nbsp;And for that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217=
; Meeting?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school som=
e 5-6
years ago and could well see the potential for &#8216;anytime annotation&#8=
217; of a
child&#8217;s progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at =
any point
in time by (at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what &#8216;real-t=
ime&#8217;
reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of
tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback
along with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborative
self-assessments as and when completed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the=
 brink
of something very exciting.&nbsp; Let&#8217;s all pull together in (approxi=
mately)
the same direction!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BW</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span>=
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.efoliointheuk=
.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</spa=
n></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS
'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
"
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-ad=
min@talk.naace.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your ang=
le on
this (see my footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stan=
d on
this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's an=
d
other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is =
a
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful =
advice
I was given a long time ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy =
or not
(lisping or otherwise :).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Not everything that can be counted counts,=
 and
not everything that counts can be counted.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not ent=
irely
share my view here, but I still like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The piece of advice I was given on making sound =
assessments
of curriculum levels is this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances =
are
you're not that far out.&quot; - Pure genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't te=
ach
the same stuff to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a roug=
h
long-term plan of what goes on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I
start&nbsp;discussing something with someone whether they are interested / =
able
to understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this jud=
gement
based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respe=
ct.
I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomo=
date
the sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'takin=
g'
my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constant=
ly
and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old
school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective o=
n it
but that&nbsp;they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may=
 or
may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or t=
he
pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pu=
b.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I believe I am able to do this because I had a g=
ood
upbringing and care about where other people are coming from. It's an appro=
ach
that works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station=
 and
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues
allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teache=
r
think you can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am
happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I won't be joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series=
 of
exams at precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether I =
was
ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably rel=
ated
to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that
that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that
grade in that exam. What about it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wo=
uldn't
have planned the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' =
or if
it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to se=
e
how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll =
soon
work it out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes abso=
lutley
no difference to me whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to make my position even more clear, if you=
 think
that giving all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this
country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can =
see it
quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I am confident that my views here will be seen
by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and unprofessional. And there's your probl=
em
in a nutshell. More graphs, less emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Isn't it about time that people who like graphs =
and
records and stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than making t=
he
rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;N=
EVER
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily relinquish
control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new sys=
tems
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, musi=
c
etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on pl=
anet
earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress y=
ou
made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks =
to
their&nbsp;REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Something is wrong and the current level of
availability of online grades is really not likely to be the source of the
problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>There is only one purpose to life: To live.</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Take a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Alistair Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hants</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine,=
 not
Crispin's... but I am perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ack'>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;
background:#E4E4E4;-moz-background-clip: border;-moz-background-origin: pad=
ding;
-moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;background-position-x:0%;backgrou=
nd-position-y:0%;
background-attachment:scroll'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</sp=
an></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.=
co.uk"
target=3D"_blank" title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin West=
on</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'=
>
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt'> RE:
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up h=
ere.
Thanks to everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a correspo=
ndingly
long essay in response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet &#8=
211; but I
think you may have misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet mi=
ght
metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with
Chris Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of t=
heir
business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service they
offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of=
 the
failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff=
 about
children being happy, fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am suspicious of =
what I
take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People&#=
8217;s
happiness increases a little when they receive a public service which is
efficient and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go =
into
Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock an=
d I
am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensur=
e
that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching wh=
ich
is relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for year=
s on
end being taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t understand or already =
knows,
just because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered accurately to assess and trac=
k what
that student&#8217;s learning needs are.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy comm=
ent:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feed=
ing
it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing=
 it.
Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I
suspect he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. A=
ny
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what=
 it
is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in education are
generally extraordinarily primitive.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair&#8=
217;s
comment </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>the graphs ? I seriously do not </span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand where they =
fit
in&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact =
that
the data is being collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Noth=
ing
is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of
making pretty graphs. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of coll=
ecting
the data? It seems to me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in
education (putting aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching o=
f
teaching. In my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is
ready to learn something. Apart from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a
motivational aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary
prerequisites. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficie=
nt
education system is managing progression, differentiation and personalisati=
on
to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of teaching at the righ=
t
time &#8211; just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig=
 or puts
the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in manageria=
l
terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial ta=
sk.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily anti=
quated
system in which people are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts=
,
like troops being driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to ge=
t
away from this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students&#8217;
individual capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is=
 so
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange tha=
t we
are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing the same
things in education.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farmin=
g, the
student (unlike the pig) has an important say in what he/she needs &#8211; =
but this
is a question of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need =
to
track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to b=
e
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs=
 &#8211;
and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual
wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they=
 *<b>do</b>*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in=
 the
system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the softwa=
re systems
that are out there (either for tracking student progress or even for
e-portfolio </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> but rather=
 the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as =
a pre-requisite
but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective internal syst=
ems.
So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively recent government targ=
et
does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requirement for business
intelligence has been long-standing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I support the objective of real time
reporting. The danger (as with so many other systems) is that it will be
introduced in response to what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the ba=
th,
driven through by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the right
boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people saying &=
#8220;real
time reporting doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;. It is very important to manage th=
e introduction
of these projects properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this me=
ans
ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting compone=
nt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-=
time
reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its =
own
&#8211; which is why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to=
 be fixed
and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. </span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to &#82=
11; I
completely agree with the point that this is making. The data that the pare=
nt
can see is the data which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the
online assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is
realistically going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the =
more
data is collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that a=
t
the moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimenta=
ry)
the richer the online reporting to parents can become. </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show =
the
right data to the right people in the right way (see comments on drowning i=
n
data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But =
the
fact that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should no=
t be
tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to other peo=
ple,
either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s perf=
ormance
and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely una=
ware
of.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your conc=
erns
but not with your conclusion. My responses inline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ue'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see why not. Has Johnny=
 handed in a
satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Ye=
s?
Bleep! </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a bit and a bi=
nary
&#8220;bleep&#8221; does not represent particularly high quality data &#821=
1; but other
quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You will get teach=
ers
to input comments wherever possible &#8211; and make it as easy as possible=
 for them to
do so &#8211; but teacher comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always
uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesses in using the inte=
rnet
is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staf=
f
used to have to do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer an=
d
should be automated wherever possible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>While I agree that the definition of =
some
teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisions of m=
any
shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when
analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>That is
the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - much of =
it
has a subjective element that &quot;learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </s=
pan>software
(really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range o=
f
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So, following from above, I agree abo=
ut the
subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the system recogni=
ses
the fact of this uncertainty.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would call any measure of competenc=
y a
&#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as a philosopher might talk about a &#=
8220;truth claim&#8221;. If
you start to see a large number of competency claims from different sources
showing a significant degree of consistency, you can start to talk about th=
at
student&#8217;s competency with some degree of confidence.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Competency claims will very often be
accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the measurement =
of
competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* of the system. A
group of students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction are not faile=
d in
their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teaching before th=
e
introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is misjudged in=
 a
few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision to make that
intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some =
kind
of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the intellig=
ence
is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People might say that, i=
n
the current environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement=
 of
the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything =
happens at
all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to f=
ight
for it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>And finally, while some &#8220;soft&#=
8221; competencies
are very subjective, others are actually pretty straightforward. How good i=
s
someone&#8217;s French vocab within a particular domain? Not really that di=
fficult
for a computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy=
.
For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of
learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure
that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable resource) shou=
ld
not be put in front of a class of students who have not acquired the basic
knowledge which will allow them to access the particular thing that the ski=
lled
graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry&#8217;s approach com=
bines
business intelligence with flexible grouping and staffing systems.</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>The
Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can =
be
reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it become=
s
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think I agree with what you are say=
ing
here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is =
what
criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyo=
ne
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; thing, which lived through a =
continuous
process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do
anyway.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist, criteri=
on-based)
teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are going up. But is that
actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of educat=
ion
and into work actually more capable (as against &quot;competent&quot;)? I t=
hink
not.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see any problem with te=
aching to
the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, well examine=
d,
provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do not think th=
at I
am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for my major exams=
 than
in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK &#8211; the academic essay is =
not
appropriate to many students and many types of examination &#8211; but I th=
ink that a
properly reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with te=
sts
which do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rot=
e
learning.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>So, are
we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed
learning tasks? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a false dic=
hotomy
here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer
assessed very easily &#8211; others cannot. But in the latter case, the job=
 of the
teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate compu=
ter
systems. The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumaniz=
e my
thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>or does
the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think in many respects the VLE-empe=
ror as
currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant
imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied by more capable
systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. An=
y
good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. W=
hat
sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of =
the
system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I tend
to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaun=
ted
but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that there will ever b=
e a
magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution &#8211; rather *<b>sufficient=
</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and
that the robots are fantastically useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I
believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to l=
earn
and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that resources-and-too=
ls on
the one hand and data on the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as=
 an
example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by savin=
g
style sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (m=
ore
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, =
when
a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn&#8217;t the teacher expect =
to see
what the students have done, if anything?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the major problems with learni=
ng resources
and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to address through the
BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning cont=
ent
is &#8220;static&#8221; and not data aware &#8211; it does not contextualis=
e, personalise, adapt
and report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Much of this data does not cross the
human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in the background. People drown not b=
ecause the sea
is big but because they can&#8217;t swim. People &#8220;drown in data&#8221=
; not because there is
too much data but because it is not understandable or because it is not use=
ful
or they are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says tha=
t
parents do not want to see attendance records but they do like to receive a
text message when their child hasn&#8217;t turned up to school. Quite agree=
. But that
is a point about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good
thing in itself.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the characteristics of modern
technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Goo=
d
software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>In summary, my position is that data =
is the
life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large, very compl=
ex,
very expensive business. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Some data is very straightforward and
objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run=
 the
right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Ultimately, it doesn&#8217;t seem to =
me to be
very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains offe=
red
by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offering the same
level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for providing,
claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of moder=
n
business management techniques does not run.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I guess that should be accompanied by
sounds of more stirring!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Crispin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>2010/1/5
Crispin Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>It
has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing=
<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past<b=
r>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org"
target=3D"_blank">Advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&gt;
received this e-mail in error<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&gt;
then please accept our apologies. In such circumstances any use,<br>
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From Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com  Thu Jan  7 15:07:41 2010
From: Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com (Fiona Aubrey-Smith)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:07:41 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
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I'm glad you said that Allison; the conspicuous absence of comment made me =
wonder if learners were being relegated to bottom of the priority list in t=
his conversation lagging behind managers, teachers & parents!!!

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message.  If y=
ou are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for deli=
very of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this messa=
ge to anyone.  In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us=
 immediately.  If you or your employer does not consent to internet email m=
essages of this kind, please advise immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and=
 other information expressed in this message are not given by my company or=
 employer unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative indepe=
ndent of this message.

From: Allison Allen [mailto:allison.allen@outstream.co.uk]
Sent: 07 January 2010 14:59
To: Fiona Aubrey-Smith; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

I think it is essential Fiona!  What else is personalised learning about?

Best Wishes

Allison Allen

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org=
] On Behalf Of Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Sent: 06 January 2010 18:33
To: 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious=
 rant

In parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide a=
nd the consequent engagement of parents,

What are people's views on the role of learner's (EY upwards) reporting on =
their own learning?

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message.  If y=
ou are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for deli=
very of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this messa=
ge to anyone.  In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us=
 immediately.  If you or your employer does not consent to internet email m=
essages of this kind, please advise immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and=
 other information expressed in this message are not given by my company or=
 employer unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative indepe=
ndent of this message.

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:04
To: Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Ray

It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" for pe=
ople to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be usele=
ss when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless you hav=
e standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically "personalise=
" without much user input, plus "business intelligence" systems that can th=
en trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learning plan=
s then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of cr=
edible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a fam=
ily, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than update =
the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to please some =
pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their child did at =
school *today*.

The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they have ope=
ned Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, not last=
 week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to suppl=
y it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that what =
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the=
 classroom.)

Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust =
teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't upda=
ted their learning plans and assessments :(

Yep, it genuinely worries me

Neil
2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>>
Allistair,

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45 =
years at the chalkface.

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is=
 about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come fro=
m, where they are now and where they want to get to.

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will =
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual e=
vidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being sud=
denly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the po=
tential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be =
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time) teacher=
s.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure on the=
 teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written late =
at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive compilation of=
 formative feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of=
 collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's=
 all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org> [=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>]=
 On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Hi Crispin et al

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote=
). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appre=
ciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a re=
ally useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comme=
nts on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong deve=
lopment of this also.

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long t=
ime ago on this subject.

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwis=
e :).

The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, b=
ut I still like it)

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum l=
evels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." - =
Pure genius.

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the s=
ame pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of wha=
t goes on where. Job done.

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something w=
ith someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm sayin=
g / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits=
 I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of=
 the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meanin=
g. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and im=
percievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old schoo=
l, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it =
but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or m=
ay not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or th=
e pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care abo=
ut where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in mains=
tream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen squa=
re. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to=
 develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you c=
an do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.=
 I won't be joining you.

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the =
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not=
. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I =
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'=
 that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in=
 that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in tha=
t exam. What about it?

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the les=
son like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't clea=
rly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it=
 out.

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me =
whatsoever. I never look at them.

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupi=
ls on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're =
an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly=
, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and u=
nprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less em=
otion. God help us.

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just =
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like=
 our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according =
to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural a=
dministrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They=
 will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly inval=
idating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, t=
he new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review =
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a =
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this=
 week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades i=
s really not likely to be the source of the problem.

There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.


Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am =
perfectly happy to share them :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Weston<mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: 'advisory'<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Hi all,

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and=
 apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

@Mike. I agree.

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood =
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.=
  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become mo=
re like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, o=
f course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time re=
porting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of=
 the essential prerequisites beforehand.

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled=
 individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that e=
fficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little =
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to th=
eir needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they h=
ave my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) gratef=
ul for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A studen=
t becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant to h=
is needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end being t=
aught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just becau=
se the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that stud=
ent's learning needs are.

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and=
 what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that=
 he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you tha=
t you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is comp=
letely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The systems =
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily primitive.

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment

"the graphs ? I seriously do not
understand where they fit in"

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but t=
hat it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no ben=
efit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of t=
he primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation fo=
r a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teac=
her, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from=
 *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must hav=
e mastered the necessary prerequisites.

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing progre=
ssion, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right student=
 gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer gives =
the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer=
 on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom t=
eacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are driv=
en through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over=
 the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to =
have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This ty=
pe of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so =
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this di=
scussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an=
 important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the d=
ata comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back=
 to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system=
 is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more motiva=
ted if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The whole po=
int of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat people =
as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the system.

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either =
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio :) but rather the dif=
ficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these syste=
ms. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a pre=
-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective in=
ternal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively recent=
 government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requir=
ement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many=
 other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some Secr=
etary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants who=
 are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone an=
y good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work". It=
 is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly an=
d, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a =
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning =
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why interoperabili=
ty ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such =
a disaster that it wasn't.

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that t=
his is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being =
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes =
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the ev=
ening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically (and=
 I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data being=
 collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reportin=
g to parents can become.

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in =
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your a=
nalysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you s=
how to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of=
 data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or p=
rocessed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency w=
hich the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My =
responses inline.

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" t=
hat can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demo=
nstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent partic=
ularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and grad=
es are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever possibl=
e - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher comment=
s are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the=
 big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer =
to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which=
 is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated whe=
rever possible.
While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are su=
bjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjec=
tive buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprisi=
ng degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite well.
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful =
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into=
 your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills th=
at are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern lif=
e.
So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see thi=
s as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertaint=
y.
I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a phil=
osopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large numbe=
r of competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree =
of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency with =
some degree of confidence.
Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. stud=
ent output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative=
 data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be review=
ed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of =
particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an=
 *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak o=
n subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are giv=
en some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. =
If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been=
 done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.=
 Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to =
me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no =
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment, in=
tervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we al=
l know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is =
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are=
 actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within=
 a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered ac=
tivity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advan=
ced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty hum=
drum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate t=
eacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a=
 class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will all=
ow them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher ha=
s to offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligen=
ce with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through =
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be re=
asonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more a=
nd more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes hard=
er and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. Tha=
t of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a =
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us=
) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph =
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate resu=
lts data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as a "=
live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation, discus=
sion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist, =
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is =
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of e=
ducation and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I th=
ink not.
I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The=
 traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origina=
l and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising=
 along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many st=
udents and many types of examination - but I think that a properly reconsti=
tuted examination system should be able to come up with tests which do not =
reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-ass=
essed learning tasks?
I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and teach=
er. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily - others ca=
nnot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I a=
m writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether yo=
u agree with the views or not).
or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pret=
ty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think y=
ou will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the lon=
g delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires =
some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE th=
rone will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the mu=
ch vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is deli=
vered.
I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total =
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, wit=
h the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This i=
s all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarke=
t terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much As=
imov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without notici=
ng that they are using them all the time and that the robots are fantastica=
lly useful.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to=
 learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a=
 data-driven dream.
I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the oth=
er are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documen=
ts (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initiali=
sation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can save stat=
e (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the c=
lass to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the students h=
ave done, if anything?
One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment (=
and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data=
 aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the backg=
round. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't swim.=
 People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because it i=
s not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong=
 sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to s=
ee attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when their=
 child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about t=
he presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.
One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have=
 become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make=
 sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds =
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc fo=
r teacher as required.
In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern busine=
ss and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business.
Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective an=
d nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.=
 Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),=
 use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the pr=
oblem.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers shoul=
d benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the sa=
me time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the serv=
ice that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some s=
ort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniqu=
es does not run.
I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
Crispin.

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk<mailto:crispin.=
weston@alphalearning.co.uk>>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On Behalf Of Colin J R=
evell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [mailto:secondary-<mailto:secondary->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org=
.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk>
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.u=
k>]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.=
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Neil Adam
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Please note:  This email and any attachments are intended only for those in=
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Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I&#8217;m
glad you said that Allison; the conspicuous absence of comment made me wond=
er
if learners were being relegated to bottom of the priority list in this
conversation lagging behind managers, teachers &amp; parents!!!<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the mes=
sage
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.&nbsp; =
In such
case, you should destroy this message, and notify us immediately.&nbsp; If =
you
or your employer does not consent to internet email messages of this kind,
please advise immediately.&nbsp; Opinions, conclusions and other informatio=
n
expressed in this message are not given by my company or employer unless
otherwise indicated by an authorised representative independent of this
message.</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Allison Allen
[mailto:allison.allen@outstream.co.uk] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 January 2010 14:59<br>
<b>To:</b> Fiona Aubrey-Smith; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>I
think it is essential Fiona!&nbsp; What else is personalised learning about=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:navy'>Best
Wishes</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00206=
0'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Allison Allen</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-fam=
ily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fiona Aubrey-Sm=
ith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 18:33<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>In
parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide and =
the
consequent engagement of parents, <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>What
are people&#8217;s views on the role of learner&#8217;s (EY upwards) report=
ing
on their own learning?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the mes=
sage
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.&nbsp; =
In
such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us immediately.&nbsp=
; If
you or your employer does not consent to internet email messages of this ki=
nd,
please advise immediately.&nbsp; Opinions, conclusions and other informatio=
n
expressed in this message are not given by my company or employer unless ot=
herwise
indicated by an authorised representative independent of this message.</spa=
n><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 17:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ray<br>
<br>
It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take &quot;forever&qu=
ot;
for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be
useless when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless yo=
u
have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically
&quot;personalise&quot; without much user input, plus &quot;business
intelligence&quot; systems that can then trawl and analyse learning outcome=
s
and progress that such learning plans then derive, the workload agreement w=
ill
just evaporate as any kind of credible means of treating teachers as people=
. I
don't know if you have a family, but many teachers have other things to do =
in
the evenings than update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids =
work
just to please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what
their child did at school *today*.<br>
<br>
The problem is that the politicians have said &quot;real time&quot;, so the=
y
have opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, =
not
last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to
supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that =
what
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the
classroom.)<br>
<br>
Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he
admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust teac=
hers
are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't updated their
learning plans and assessments :(<br>
<br>
Yep, it genuinely worries me<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/6 Ray Tolley &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Allistair,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate w=
here
you are coming from after my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting
&#8216;thing&#8217; is not about grades or graphs it is about progress and
process. &nbsp;In other words where the learner has come from, where they a=
re
now and where they want to get to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previ=
ously
suggest that the parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#82=
17;s
progress through seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made=
?
&nbsp;And for that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217=
;
Meeting?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school som=
e 5-6
years ago and could well see the potential for &#8216;anytime annotation&#8=
217;
of a child&#8217;s progress which could then be accessed as near as anythin=
g at
any point in time by (at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what &#8=
216;real-time&#8217;
reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of
tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback
along with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborative
self-assessments as and when completed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the=
 brink
of something very exciting.&nbsp; Let&#8217;s all pull together in
(approximately) the same direction!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BW</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span>=
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.efoliointheuk=
.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</spa=
n></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS
'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
"
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-ad=
min@talk.naace.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your ang=
le on
this (see my footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stan=
d on
this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's an=
d
other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is =
a
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful =
advice
I was given a long time ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy =
or not
(lisping or otherwise :).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Not everything that can be counted counts,=
 and
not everything that counts can be counted.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not ent=
irely
share my view here, but I still like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The piece of advice I was given on making sound
assessments of curriculum levels is this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances =
are
you're not that far out.&quot; - Pure genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't te=
ach
the same stuff to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a roug=
h
long-term plan of what goes on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I
start&nbsp;discussing something with someone whether they are interested / =
able
to understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this
judgement based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mu=
tual
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, =
to
accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they=
 are
'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this
constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this alread=
y at
my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle /
perspective on it but that&nbsp;they still appear to be studying alongside
their peers. I may or may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if =
it's
useful to me or the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'=
m
probably at the pub.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I believe I am able to do this because I had a g=
ood
upbringing and care about where other people are coming from. It's an appro=
ach
that works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station=
 and
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues
allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teache=
r
think you can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happ=
y&nbsp;about
it.&nbsp;I won't be joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series=
 of
exams at precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether I =
was
ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably rel=
ated
to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that
that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that
grade in that exam. What about it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wo=
uldn't
have planned the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' =
or
if it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to=
 see
how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll =
soon
work it out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes abso=
lutley
no difference to me whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to make my position even more clear, if you=
 think
that giving all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this
country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can =
see
it quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I am confident that my views here will be seen
by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and unprofessional. And there's your probl=
em
in a nutshell. More graphs, less emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Isn't it about time that people who like graphs =
and
records and stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than making t=
he
rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;N=
EVER
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily relinquish
control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new sys=
tems
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, musi=
c
etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people=
 will
again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet
earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress y=
ou
made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks =
to
their&nbsp;REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Something is wrong and the current level of
availability of online grades is really not likely to be the source of the
problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>There is only one purpose to life: To live.</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Take a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Alistair Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hants</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine,=
 not
Crispin's... but I am perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ack'>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;
background:#E4E4E4;-moz-background-clip: border;-moz-background-origin: pad=
ding;
-moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;background-position-x:0%;backgrou=
nd-position-y:0%;
background-attachment:scroll'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</sp=
an></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.=
co.uk"
target=3D"_blank" title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin West=
on</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'=
>
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt'> RE:
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up h=
ere.
Thanks to everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a
correspondingly long essay in response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet &#8=
211;
but I think you may have misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouq=
uet
might metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>*
with Chris Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms=
 of
their business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service
they offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration b=
ut
of the failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites beforeha=
nd.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff=
 about
children being happy, fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am suspicious of =
what
I take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness.
People&#8217;s happiness increases a little when they receive a public serv=
ice
which is efficient and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases w=
hen
I go into Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata i=
n
stock and I am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems
which ensure that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receive=
s
teaching which is relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a
classroom for years on end being taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t
understand or already knows, just because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered
accurately to assess and track what that student&#8217;s learning needs are=
.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy comm=
ent:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feed=
ing
it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing=
 it.
Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I
suspect he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. A=
ny
efficient business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what=
 it
is doing. The systems that we have in place for doing this in education are
generally extraordinarily primitive.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair&#8=
217;s
comment </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>the graphs ? I seriously do not </span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand where they =
fit
in&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact =
that
the data is being collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Noth=
ing
is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of
making pretty graphs. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of coll=
ecting
the data? It seems to me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in
education (putting aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching o=
f
teaching. In my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is
ready to learn something. Apart from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a
motivational aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary
prerequisites. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficie=
nt
education system is managing progression, differentiation and personalisati=
on
to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of teaching at the righ=
t
time &#8211; just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig=
 or
puts the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in
managerial terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex
managerial task.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily anti=
quated
system in which people are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts=
,
like troops being driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to ge=
t
away from this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students&#8217;
individual capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is=
 so
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange tha=
t we
are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing the same
things in education.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farmin=
g, the
student (unlike the pig) has an important say in what he/she needs &#8211; =
but
this is a question of where the data comes from and does not undermine the =
need
to track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely t=
o be
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs
&#8211; and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my
individual wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence systems i=
s
that they *<b>do</b>* treat people as individuals, even though there are la=
rge
numbers of them in the system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the softwa=
re
systems that are out there (either for tracking student progress or even fo=
r
e-portfolio </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> but rather=
 the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as =
a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively rece=
nt
government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the require=
ment
for business intelligence has been long-standing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I support the objective of real time
reporting. The danger (as with so many other systems) is that it will be
introduced in response to what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the ba=
th,
driven through by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the right
boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people saying
&#8220;real time reporting doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;. It is very important =
to
manage the introduction of these projects properly and, in the case of
real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a sufficient supply =
of
data to the reporting component.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-=
time
reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its =
own
&#8211; which is why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to=
 be
fixed and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. </span><o:p=
></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to &#82=
11; I completely
agree with the point that this is making. The data that the parent can see =
is
the data which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online
assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically
going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is
collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that at the
moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) =
the
richer the online reporting to parents can become. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show =
the
right data to the right people in the right way (see comments on drowning i=
n
data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But =
the
fact that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should no=
t be
tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to other peo=
ple,
either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s
performance and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is co=
mpletely
unaware of.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your conc=
erns
but not with your conclusion. My responses inline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ue'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see why not. Has Johnny
handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understanding of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a bit and a bi=
nary
&#8220;bleep&#8221; does not represent particularly high quality data &#821=
1;
but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You will=
 get
teachers to input comments wherever possible &#8211; and make it as easy as
possible for them to do so &#8211; but teacher comments are (a) expensive a=
nd
(b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesse=
s in
using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry
that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original point: data en=
try
is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>While I agree that the definition of =
some
teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisions of m=
any
shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when
analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>That is
the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - much of =
it
has a subjective element that &quot;learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </s=
pan>software
(really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range o=
f
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So, following from above, I agree abo=
ut the
subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the system recogni=
ses
the fact of this uncertainty.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would call any measure of competenc=
y a
&#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as a philosopher might talk about a
&#8220;truth claim&#8221;. If you start to see a large number of competency
claims from different sources showing a significant degree of consistency, =
you
can start to talk about that student&#8217;s competency with some degree of
confidence.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Competency claims will very often be
accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the measurement =
of
competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* of the system. A
group of students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction are not faile=
d in
their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teaching before th=
e
introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is misjudged in=
 a
few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision to make that
intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some =
kind
of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the intellig=
ence
is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People might say that, i=
n
the current environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement=
 of
the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything
happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs ar=
e
left to fight for it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>And finally, while some &#8220;soft&#=
8221;
competencies are very subjective, others are actually pretty straightforwar=
d.
How good is someone&#8217;s French vocab within a particular domain? Not re=
ally
that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair deg=
ree
of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite=
 a
lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to
ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable resourc=
e)
should not be put in front of a class of students who have not acquired the
basic knowledge which will allow them to access the particular thing that t=
he
skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry&#8217;s appr=
oach
combines business intelligence with flexible grouping and staffing systems.=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>The
Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can =
be
reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it become=
s
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think I agree with what you are say=
ing
here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is =
what
criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyo=
ne
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; thing, which lived through a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good =
teachers
do anyway.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are going u=
p.
But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next sta=
ge
of education and into work actually more capable (as against
&quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see any problem with te=
aching
to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do no=
t
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for m=
y
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK &#8211; the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of
examination &#8211; but I think that a properly reconstituted examination
system should be able to come up with tests which do not reward mechanistic
teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>So, are
we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed
learning tasks? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a false dic=
hotomy
here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer
assessed very easily &#8211; others cannot. But in the latter case, the job=
 of
the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate
computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not
dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>or does
the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think in many respects the VLE-empe=
ror as
currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant
imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied by more capable
systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. An=
y
good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. W=
hat
sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of =
the
system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I tend
to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaun=
ted
but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that there will ever b=
e a
magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution &#8211; rather *<b>sufficient=
</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and
that the robots are fantastically useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I
believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to l=
earn
and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that resources-and-too=
ls on
the one hand and data on the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as=
 an
example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by savin=
g
style sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (m=
ore
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, =
when
a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn&#8217;t the teacher expect =
to
see what the students have done, if anything?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the major problems with learni=
ng
resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to address throu=
gh
the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning
content is &#8220;static&#8221; and not data aware &#8211; it does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Much of this data does not cross the
human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in the background. People drown not
because the sea is big but because they can&#8217;t swim. People &#8220;dro=
wn
in data&#8221; not because there is too much data but because it is not
understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong sort =
or
in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attend=
ance
records but they do like to receive a text message when their child
hasn&#8217;t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about th=
e
presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the characteristics of modern
technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Goo=
d
software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>In summary, my position is that data =
is the
life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large, very compl=
ex,
very expensive business. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Some data is very straightforward and
objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run=
 the
right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Ultimately, it doesn&#8217;t seem to =
me to
be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains
offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offering t=
he
same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the wr=
it
of modern business management techniques does not run.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I guess that should be accompanied by
sounds of more stirring!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Crispin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>2010/1/5
Crispin Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>It
has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing=
<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past<b=
r>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org"
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<br>
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Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<br>
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Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
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Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for tho=
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--_000_BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B55EXMBX01WBHLocal_--

From allison.allen@outstream.co.uk  Thu Jan  7 15:11:40 2010
From: allison.allen@outstream.co.uk (Allison Allen)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:11:40 +0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B55@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com>
 <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT>
 <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322>
 <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk>
 <31510a51001060904u67e49249l24ebf8bf817cfed4@mail.gmail.com>
 <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B11@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>
 <05B61107ADE5754D95CFDABCB010BD9438A1128938@MAIL3.lgflmail.org>
 <BF02D86C6444174AAE233885DD487D9106B38B55@EXMBX01.WBH.Local>
Message-ID: <05B61107ADE5754D95CFDABCB010BD9438A1128947@MAIL3.lgflmail.org>

--_000_05B61107ADE5754D95CFDABCB010BD9438A1128947MAIL3lgflmail_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I got tired of formative assessment, summative assessment but never informa=
tive assessment where you explain your thoughts to the learner and shared/p=
ersonal/negotiated assessment is as rare as hen's teeth!

Best Wishes

Allison Allen


From: Fiona Aubrey-Smith [mailto:Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com]
Sent: 07 January 2010 15:08
To: Allison Allen; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary; 'primary@talk.naace.org'
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

I'm glad you said that Allison; the conspicuous absence of comment made me =
wonder if learners were being relegated to bottom of the priority list in t=
his conversation lagging behind managers, teachers & parents!!!

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message.  If y=
ou are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for deli=
very of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this messa=
ge to anyone.  In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us=
 immediately.  If you or your employer does not consent to internet email m=
essages of this kind, please advise immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and=
 other information expressed in this message are not given by my company or=
 employer unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative indepe=
ndent of this message.

From: Allison Allen [mailto:allison.allen@outstream.co.uk]
Sent: 07 January 2010 14:59
To: Fiona Aubrey-Smith; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

I think it is essential Fiona!  What else is personalised learning about?

Best Wishes

Allison Allen

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org=
] On Behalf Of Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Sent: 06 January 2010 18:33
To: 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious=
 rant

In parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide a=
nd the consequent engagement of parents,

What are people's views on the role of learner's (EY upwards) reporting on =
their own learning?

Best wishes, Fiona

Fiona Aubrey-Smith
Head of Educational Development
UniServity

Telephone: +44 7825 940 827
Address: Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG
Web: www.uniservity.com<http://www.uniservity.com/> http://twitter.com/Fion=
aAS

Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?

Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message.  If y=
ou are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for deli=
very of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this messa=
ge to anyone.  In such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us=
 immediately.  If you or your employer does not consent to internet email m=
essages of this kind, please advise immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and=
 other information expressed in this message are not given by my company or=
 employer unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative indepe=
ndent of this message.

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] =
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:04
To: Ray Tolley
Cc: advisory; secondary
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Ray

It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take "forever" for pe=
ople to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be usele=
ss when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless you hav=
e standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically "personalise=
" without much user input, plus "business intelligence" systems that can th=
en trawl and analyse learning outcomes and progress that such learning plan=
s then derive, the workload agreement will just evaporate as any kind of cr=
edible means of treating teachers as people. I don't know if you have a fam=
ily, but many teachers have other things to do in the evenings than update =
the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids work just to please some =
pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what their child did at =
school *today*.

The problem is that the politicians have said "real time", so they have ope=
ned Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, not last=
 week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to suppl=
y it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that what =
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the=
 classroom.)

Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust =
teachers are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't upda=
ted their learning plans and assessments :(

Yep, it genuinely worries me

Neil
2010/1/6 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>>
Allistair,

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45 =
years at the chalkface.

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is=
 about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come fro=
m, where they are now and where they want to get to.

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will =
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual e=
vidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being sud=
denly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the po=
tential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be =
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time) teacher=
s.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure on the=
 teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written late =
at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive compilation of=
 formative feedback along with the automated and monitored documentation of=
 collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's=
 all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org> [=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>]=
 On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

Hi Crispin et al

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote=
). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appre=
ciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a re=
ally useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comme=
nts on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong deve=
lopment of this also.

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long t=
ime ago on this subject.

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwis=
e :).

The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, b=
ut I still like it)

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum l=
evels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." - =
Pure genius.

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the s=
ame pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of wha=
t goes on where. Job done.

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something w=
ith someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm sayin=
g / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits=
 I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of=
 the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meanin=
g. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and im=
percievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old schoo=
l, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it =
but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or m=
ay not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or th=
e pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care abo=
ut where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in mains=
tream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen squa=
re. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to=
 develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you c=
an do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.=
 I won't be joining you.

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the =
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not=
. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I =
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'=
 that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in=
 that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in tha=
t exam. What about it?

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the les=
son like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't clea=
rly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it=
 out.

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me =
whatsoever. I never look at them.

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupi=
ls on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're =
an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly=
, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and u=
nprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less em=
otion. God help us.

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just =
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like=
 our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according =
to category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural a=
dministrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They=
 will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly inval=
idating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hopefully, t=
he new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review =
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a =
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this=
 week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to their =
REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades i=
s really not likely to be the source of the problem.

There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.


Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am =
perfectly happy to share them :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Weston<mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: 'advisory'<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Hi all,

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and=
 apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

@Mike. I agree.

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood =
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.=
  My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become mo=
re like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, o=
f course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time re=
porting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some of=
 the essential prerequisites beforehand.

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled=
 individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that e=
fficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little =
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to th=
eir needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they h=
ave my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately) gratef=
ul for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A studen=
t becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant to h=
is needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end being t=
aught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just becau=
se the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that stud=
ent's learning needs are.

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and=
 what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that=
 he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you tha=
t you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is comp=
letely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The systems =
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily primitive.

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment

"the graphs ? I seriously do not
understand where they fit in"

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but t=
hat it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no ben=
efit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of t=
he primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation fo=
r a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a teac=
her, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart from=
 *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must hav=
e mastered the necessary prerequisites.

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing progre=
ssion, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right student=
 gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer gives =
the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of fertilizer=
 on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the classroom t=
eacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are driv=
en through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven over=
 the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have to =
have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This ty=
pe of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so =
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this di=
scussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an=
 important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the d=
ata comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back=
 to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system=
 is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more motiva=
ted if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The whole po=
int of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat people =
as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the system.

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either =
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio :) but rather the dif=
ficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these syste=
ms. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a pre=
-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective in=
ternal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively recent=
 government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the requir=
ement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many=
 other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some Secr=
etary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants who=
 are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone an=
y good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work". It=
 is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly an=
d, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a =
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning =
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why interoperabili=
ty ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it has been such =
a disaster that it wasn't.

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that t=
his is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being =
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes =
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the ev=
ening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically (and=
 I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data being=
 collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reportin=
g to parents can become.

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in =
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your a=
nalysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you s=
how to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of=
 data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or p=
rocessed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency w=
hich the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My =
responses inline.

All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles" t=
hat can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demo=
nstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent partic=
ularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and grad=
es are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever possibl=
e - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher comment=
s are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the=
 big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer =
to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which=
 is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be automated whe=
rever possible.
While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are su=
bjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex, subjec=
tive buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate surprisi=
ng degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite well.
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful =
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into=
 your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills th=
at are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern lif=
e.
So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see thi=
s as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertaint=
y.
I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a phil=
osopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large numbe=
r of competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree =
of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency with =
some degree of confidence.
Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. stud=
ent output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim. Quantitative=
 data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element can be review=
ed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective tendencies of =
particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an=
 *output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak o=
n subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are giv=
en some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. =
If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been=
 done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.=
 Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to =
me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no =
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment, in=
tervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we al=
l know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is =
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are=
 actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within=
 a particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered ac=
tivity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advan=
ced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty hum=
drum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate t=
eacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a=
 class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will all=
ow them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher ha=
s to offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligen=
ce with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through =
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be re=
asonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more a=
nd more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes hard=
er and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. Tha=
t of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a =
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us=
) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph =
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate resu=
lts data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as a "=
live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation, discus=
sion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist, =
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is =
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of e=
ducation and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I th=
ink not.
I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The=
 traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origina=
l and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising=
 along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many st=
udents and many types of examination - but I think that a properly reconsti=
tuted examination system should be able to come up with tests which do not =
reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-ass=
essed learning tasks?
I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and teach=
er. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily - others ca=
nnot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made very much =
easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact that I a=
m writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether yo=
u agree with the views or not).
or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pret=
ty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think y=
ou will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring the lon=
g delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system requires =
some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the vacated VLE th=
rone will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the mu=
ch vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is deli=
vered.
I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total =
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, wit=
h the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This i=
s all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarke=
t terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much As=
imov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without notici=
ng that they are using them all the time and that the robots are fantastica=
lly useful.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to=
 learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a=
 data-driven dream.
I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the oth=
er are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documen=
ts (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). =
Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an initiali=
sation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can save stat=
e (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher asks the c=
lass to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the students h=
ave done, if anything?
One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment (=
and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging =
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data=
 aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the backg=
round. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't swim.=
 People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because it i=
s not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong=
 sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to s=
ee attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when their=
 child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about t=
he presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.
One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have=
 become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make=
 sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds =
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc fo=
r teacher as required.
In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern busine=
ss and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive business.
Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective an=
d nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.=
 Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),=
 use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the pr=
oblem.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers shoul=
d benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the sa=
me time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the serv=
ice that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some s=
ort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniqu=
es does not run.
I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
Crispin.

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk<mailto:crispin.=
weston@alphalearning.co.uk>>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On Behalf Of Colin J R=
evell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [mailto:secondary-<mailto:secondary->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org=
.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk>
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.or=
g> [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk<mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.u=
k>]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>; secondary@ta=
lk.naace.org<mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org>=
 [mailto:advisory-<mailto:advisory->
> admin@talk.naace.org<mailto:admin@talk.naace.org>]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org<mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
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Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk<http://www.beaconict.co.uk>

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<body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>I
got tired of formative assessment, summative assessment but never informati=
ve
assessment where you explain your thoughts to the learner and
shared/personal/negotiated assessment is as rare as hen&#8217;s teeth!<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:navy'>Best
Wishes</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00206=
0'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Allison Allen</span></b><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";
color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#002060'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fiona Aubrey-Smith
[mailto:Fiona.AubreySmith@uniservity.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 January 2010 15:08<br>
<b>To:</b> Allison Allen; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary; 'primary@talk.naace.org'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I&#8217;m
glad you said that Allison; the conspicuous absence of comment made me wond=
er
if learners were being relegated to bottom of the priority list in this
conversation lagging behind managers, teachers &amp; parents!!!<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the mes=
sage
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.&nbsp; =
In
such case, you should destroy this message, and notify us immediately.&nbsp=
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you or your employer does not consent to internet email messages of this ki=
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</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Allison Allen [mailto:allison.allen@out=
stream.co.uk]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 January 2010 14:59<br>
<b>To:</b> Fiona Aubrey-Smith; 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>I
think it is essential Fiona!&nbsp; What else is personalised learning about=
?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:navy'>Best
Wishes</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00206=
0'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#002060'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Allison Allen</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-fam=
ily:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fiona Aubrey-Sm=
ith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 18:33<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'; Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>In
parallel to the conversation about the reporting that teachers provide and =
the
consequent engagement of parents, <o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>What
are people&#8217;s views on the role of learner&#8217;s (EY upwards) report=
ing on their own
learning?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
wishes, Fiona<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Fiona
Aubrey-Smith<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Head
of Educational Development<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>UniServity<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Telephone:
+44 7825 940 827<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Address:
Soane Point, 6-8 Market Place, Reading, RG1 2EG<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Web:
<span style=3D'color:#0070C0'><a href=3D"http://www.uniservity.com/"><span
style=3D'color:#0070C0'>www.uniservity.com</span></a> <a
href=3D"http://twitter.com/FionaAS"><span style=3D'color:#0070C0'>http://tw=
itter.com/FionaAS</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#0070C0'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
,"sans-serif";
color:green'>Save Paper - Do you really need to print this e-mail?</span></=
b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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ly:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Privileged/Confidential
information may be contained in this message.&nbsp; If you are not the addr=
essee
indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to su=
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person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.&nbsp; In such
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or your employer does not consent to internet email messages of this kind,
please advise immediately.&nbsp; Opinions, conclusions and other informatio=
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expressed in this message are not given by my company or employer unless
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 17:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory; secondary<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ray<br>
<br>
It worries me that the level of detail you imply will take &quot;forever&qu=
ot;
for people to put into systems. Teachers need to get lives, or they will be
useless when it comes to working with young people in their care. Unless yo=
u
have standardised lesson plans that you can somehow automatically
&quot;personalise&quot; without much user input, plus &quot;business
intelligence&quot; systems that can then trawl and analyse learning outcome=
s
and progress that such learning plans then derive, the workload agreement w=
ill
just evaporate as any kind of credible means of treating teachers as people=
. I
don't know if you have a family, but many teachers have other things to do =
in
the evenings than update the minutiae of plans and annotate all their kids =
work
just to please some pushy parents who want to be able to see instantly what
their child did at school *today*.<br>
<br>
The problem is that the politicians have said &quot;real time&quot;, so the=
y
have opened Pandora's box. People will expect up-to-date info about today, =
not
last week, let alone last month. And teachers are not going to be able to
supply it. (Or asa someone said about levels, they will fudge it such that =
what
parents are told will only bear a vague resemblance to what happened in the
classroom.)<br>
<br>
Now the systems Crispin has been talking about may be able to do so, but as=
 he
admits, they are quite some way off. Meanwhile parents who don't trust teac=
hers
are going to be getting down their necks because they haven't updated their
learning plans and assessments :(<br>
<br>
Yep, it genuinely worries me<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/6 Ray Tolley &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Allistair,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate w=
here
you are coming from after my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting &#=
8216;thing&#8217;
is not about grades or graphs it is about progress and process. &nbsp;In ot=
her
words where the learner has come from, where they are now and where they wa=
nt
to get to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previ=
ously
suggest that the parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#82=
17;s
progress through seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made=
?
&nbsp;And for that matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217=
; Meeting?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school som=
e 5-6
years ago and could well see the potential for &#8216;anytime annotation&#8=
217; of a
child&#8217;s progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at =
any point
in time by (at that time) teachers.&nbsp; This, to me is what &#8216;real-t=
ime&#8217;
reporting is about.&nbsp; No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of
tiredness.&nbsp; But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback
along with the automated and monitored documentation of collaborative
self-assessments as and when completed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the=
 brink
of something very exciting.&nbsp; Let&#8217;s all pull together in (approxi=
mately)
the same direction!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BW</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</=
span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span>=
</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.efoliointheuk=
.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</spa=
n></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS
'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org=
"
target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-ad=
min@talk.naace.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your ang=
le on
this (see my footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stan=
d on
this and I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket
analogy is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's an=
d
other's comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is =
a
strong development of&nbsp;this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful =
advice
I was given a long time ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy =
or not
(lisping or otherwise :).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Not everything that can be counted counts,=
 and
not everything that counts can be counted.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not ent=
irely share
my view here, but I still like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The piece of advice I was given on making sound
assessments of curriculum levels is this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances =
are
you're not that far out.&quot; - Pure genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't te=
ach
the same stuff to the same pupil as anyone else because I would have a roug=
h
long-term plan of what goes on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I
start&nbsp;discussing something with someone whether they are interested / =
able
to understand what I'm saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this
judgement based on human traits I and they have and through a process of mu=
tual
respect. I don't write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, =
to
accomodate the sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they=
 are
'taking' my meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this
constantly and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this alread=
y at
my old school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle /
perspective on it but that&nbsp;they still appear to be studying alongside
their peers. I may or may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if =
it's
useful to me or the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'=
m
probably at the pub.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I believe I am able to do this because I had a g=
ood
upbringing and care about where other people are coming from. It's an appro=
ach
that works in mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station=
 and
Tiananmen square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues
allowed me to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teache=
r
think you can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am
happy&nbsp;about it.&nbsp;I won't be joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series=
 of
exams at precisely the same time as everyone else in the country whether I =
was
ready for it or not. The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably rel=
ated
to whatever I wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more
'personalised' that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that
that grade in that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that
grade in that exam. What about it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wo=
uldn't
have planned the lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' =
or
if it wasn't clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to=
 see
how good my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll =
soon
work it out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes abso=
lutley
no difference to me whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to make my position even more clear, if you=
 think
that giving all pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this
country out, you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can =
see
it quite clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I am confident that my views here will be seen
by&nbsp;some as&nbsp;out of line and unprofessional. And there's your probl=
em
in a nutshell. More graphs, less emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Isn't it about time that people who like graphs =
and
records and stuff just go back to administrative roles rather than making t=
he
rest of us feel like our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and
coloured according to category? Who put them in charge&nbsp;? That's&nbsp;N=
EVER
going to work. Natural administrators are never going to happily relinquish
control and power. They will simply introduce new systems on top of new sys=
tems
increasingly invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, musi=
c
etc Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on pl=
anet
earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress y=
ou
made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks =
to
their&nbsp;REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Something is wrong and the current level of
availability of online grades is really not likely to be the source of the
problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>There is only one purpose to life: To live.</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Take a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Alistair Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hants</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine,=
 not
Crispin's... but I am perfectly&nbsp;happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ack'>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;
background:#E4E4E4;-moz-background-clip: border;-moz-background-origin: pad=
ding;
-moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;background-position-x:0%;backgrou=
nd-position-y:0%;
background-attachment:scroll'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</sp=
an></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> <a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.=
co.uk"
target=3D"_blank" title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin West=
on</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> =
<a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'=
>
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt'> RE:
[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up h=
ere.
Thanks to everyone&#8217;s comments and apologies in advance for a correspo=
ndingly
long essay in response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet &#8=
211; but I
think you may have misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet mi=
ght
metamorphose into a brickbat. &nbsp;My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with
Chris Gerry that schools should become more like supermarkets in terms of t=
heir
business intelligence (though not, of course, in terms of the service they
offer). My criticism of real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of=
 the
failure to put in place some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff=
 about
children being happy, fulfilled individuals &#8211; but I am suspicious of =
what I
take to be a suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People&#=
8217;s
happiness increases a little when they receive a public service which is
efficient and appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go =
into
Tesco and find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock an=
d I
am (moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensur=
e
that it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching wh=
ich
is relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for year=
s on
end being taught things that he either doesn&#8217;t understand or already =
knows,
just because the school hasn&#8217;t bothered accurately to assess and trac=
k what
that student&#8217;s learning needs are.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>To respond to Jeff&#8217;s pithy comm=
ent:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!&#8221;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feed=
ing
it. But you establish how much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing=
 it.
Try telling a pig farmer that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I =
suspect
he would tell you that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any effic=
ient
business is completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doi=
ng.
The systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
extraordinarily primitive.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair&#8=
217;s
comment </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&#8220;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>the graphs ? I seriously do not </span><o:p></o:=
p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand where they =
fit
in&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact =
that
the data is being collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Noth=
ing
is joined up. There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of
making pretty graphs. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of coll=
ecting
the data? It seems to me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in
education (putting aside motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching o=
f
teaching. In my experience as a teacher, there is a time when a student is
ready to learn something. Apart from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a
motivational aspect), the student must have mastered the necessary
prerequisites. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficie=
nt
education system is managing progression, differentiation and personalisati=
on
to ensure that the right student gets the right bit of teaching at the righ=
t
time &#8211; just as a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig=
 or puts
the right bit of fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in manageria=
l
terms for the classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial ta=
sk.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily anti=
quated
system in which people are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts=
,
like troops being driven over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to ge=
t
away from this, we have to have systems capable of tracking students&#8217;
individual capabilities. This type of tracking of business effectiveness is=
 so
ubiquitous and its value so widely accepted that I find it very strange tha=
t we
are even having this discussion as to whether we should be doing the same
things in education.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farmin=
g, the
student (unlike the pig) has an important say in what he/she needs &#8211; =
but this
is a question of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need =
to
track it. This links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to b=
e
motivated if the system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs=
 &#8211;
and even more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual
wants. The whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they=
 *<b>do</b>*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in=
 the
system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the softwa=
re
systems that are out there (either for tracking student progress or even fo=
r
e-portfolio </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:navy'>J</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> but rather=
 the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as =
a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively rece=
nt
government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the require=
ment
for business intelligence has been long-standing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I support the objective of real time
reporting. The danger (as with so many other systems) is that it will be
introduced in response to what some Secretary of State dreamed up in the ba=
th,
driven through by civil servants who are only concerned to tick the right
boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any good and end up with people saying &=
#8220;real
time reporting doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;. It is very important to manage th=
e introduction
of these projects properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this me=
ans
ensuring that you have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting compone=
nt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-=
time
reporting, e-portfolio, learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its =
own
&#8211; which is why interoperability ought to have been the first thing to=
 be fixed
and why it has been such a disaster that it wasn&#8217;t. </span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to &#82=
11; I
completely agree with the point that this is making. The data that the pare=
nt
can see is the data which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the
online assignments. When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is
realistically going to sit down in the evening and key in the data. So the =
more
data is collected automatically (and I think most people would agree that a=
t
the moment, the type of data being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimenta=
ry)
the richer the online reporting to parents can become. </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show =
the
right data to the right people in the right way (see comments on drowning i=
n
data below). I agree with your analysis of what parents probably want. But =
the
fact that this is what you show to parents does not mean that you should no=
t be
tracking other types of data as well, which may be of interest to other peo=
ple,
either in raw or processed form. There may be aspects of pupil&#8217;s perf=
ormance
and competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely una=
ware
of.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your conc=
erns
but not with your conclusion. My responses inline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color bl=
ue'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
&quot;articles&quot; that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see why not. Has Johnny=
 handed in a
satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Ye=
s?
Bleep! </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a bit and a bi=
nary
&#8220;bleep&#8221; does not represent particularly high quality data &#821=
1; but other
quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You will get teach=
ers
to input comments wherever possible &#8211; and make it as easy as possible=
 for them
to do so &#8211; but teacher comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not alw=
ays
uber-reliable either. One of the big gains for businesses in using the inte=
rnet
is in getting the customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staf=
f
used to have to do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer an=
d
should be automated wherever possible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>While I agree that the definition of =
some
teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisions of m=
any
shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when
analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>That is
the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - much of =
it
has a subjective element that &quot;learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </s=
pan>software
(really useful and compelling in its own right)&quot; cannot automatically
assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range o=
f
&quot;softer&quot; skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So, following from above, I agree abo=
ut the
subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the system recogni=
ses
the fact of this uncertainty.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would call any measure of competenc=
y a
&#8220;competency claim&#8221;, just as a philosopher might talk about a &#=
8220;truth claim&#8221;. If
you start to see a large number of competency claims from different sources
showing a significant degree of consistency, you can start to talk about th=
at
student&#8217;s competency with some degree of confidence.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Competency claims will very often be
accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the measurement =
of
competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* of the system. A
group of students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction are not faile=
d in
their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teaching before th=
e
introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is misjudged in=
 a
few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision to make that
intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions based on some =
kind
of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if the intellig=
ence
is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People might say that, i=
n
the current environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement=
 of
the teacher &#8211; but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything =
happens at
all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to f=
ight
for it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>And finally, while some &#8220;soft&#=
8221; competencies
are very subjective, others are actually pretty straightforward. How good i=
s
someone&#8217;s French vocab within a particular domain? Not really that di=
fficult
for a computer-delivered activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy=
.
For all the talk of advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of
learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure
that the skilled graduate teacher (who represents a valuable resource) shou=
ld
not be put in front of a class of students who have not acquired the basic
knowledge which will allow them to access the particular thing that the ski=
lled
graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris Gerry&#8217;s approach com=
bines
business intelligence with flexible grouping and staffing systems.</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>The
Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask &quot;what can =
be
reasonably&quot; automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it become=
s
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think I agree with what you are say=
ing
here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is =
what
criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency. Everyo=
ne
understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a &#8220;live&#8221; thing, which lived through a =
continuous
process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do=
 anyway.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and &quot;standards&quot; are going u=
p.
But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next sta=
ge
of education and into work actually more capable (as against
&quot;competent&quot;)? I think not.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t see any problem with te=
aching to
the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, well examine=
d,
provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do not think th=
at I
am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for my major exams
than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK &#8211; the academic essa=
y is not
appropriate to many students and many types of examination &#8211; but I th=
ink that a
properly reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with te=
sts
which do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rot=
e
learning.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>So, are
we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software-assessed
learning tasks? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a false dic=
hotomy
here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer
assessed very easily &#8211; others cannot. But in the latter case, the job=
 of the
teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by appropriate compu=
ter
systems. The fact that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumaniz=
e my
thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>or does
the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I think in many respects the VLE-empe=
ror as
currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant
imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied by more capable
systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution to schools. An=
y
good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. W=
hat
sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of =
the
system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I tend
to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the much vaun=
ted
but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that there will ever b=
e a
magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution &#8211; rather *<b>sufficient=
</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and that
the robots are fantastically useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
>I
believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to l=
earn
and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I do not think that resources-and-too=
ls on
the one hand and data on the other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as=
 an
example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by savin=
g
style sheets (more data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (m=
ore
data) from an initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a
document, I can save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, =
when
a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn&#8217;t the teacher expect =
to see
what the students have done, if anything?</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the major problems with learni=
ng
resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to address throu=
gh
the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much learning
content is &#8220;static&#8221; and not data aware &#8211; it does not cont=
extualise, personalise,
adapt and report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Much of this data does not cross the
human&#8217;s retina &#8211; it works in the background. People drown not b=
ecause the sea
is big but because they can&#8217;t swim. People &#8220;drown in data&#8221=
; not because there is
too much data but because it is not understandable or because it is not use=
ful
or they are show the wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says tha=
t
parents do not want to see attendance records but they do like to receive a
text message when their child hasn&#8217;t turned up to school. Quite agree=
. But that
is a point about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good
thing in itself.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>One of the characteristics of modern
technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to use. Goo=
d
software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>In summary, my position is that data =
is the
life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large, very compl=
ex,
very expensive business. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Some data is very straightforward and
objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which run=
 the
right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can&#8217;t see the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Ultimately, it doesn&#8217;t seem to =
me to be
very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficiency gains offe=
red
by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offering the same
level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for providing,
claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of moder=
n
business management techniques does not run.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I guess that should be accompanied by
sounds of more stirring!</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Crispin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>2010/1/5
Crispin Weston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'>It
has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing=
<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Some thought for comment;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
&gt; parents<br>
&gt; I find it interesting that there is very little &quot;official&quot;<b=
r>
&gt; information about<br>
&gt; this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
&gt; Ed Balls<br>
&gt; released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
&gt; whom and<br>
&gt; by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
&gt; and I am<br>
&gt; wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colin<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ... and &nbsp;it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring th=
is<br>
&gt; journey<br>
&gt; of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the<br>
&gt; Becta<br>
&gt; website.....?<br>
&gt; Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
&gt; offerings<br>
&gt; measure up against these requirements?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;What is online reporting?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
&gt; access<br>
&gt; information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<br>
&gt; behaviour<br>
&gt; when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What do I have to do and when?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
&gt; available<br>
&gt; to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challengin=
g)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Progress and attainment<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Special needs<br>
&gt; All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
&gt; of the<br>
&gt; solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
&gt; aspirations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable<br>
&gt; and<br>
&gt; undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; Tony Parkin<br>
&gt; Head of ICT Development<br>
&gt; Specialist Schools &amp; Academies Trust<br>
&gt; 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
&gt; 21-24 Millbank<br>
&gt; London SW1P 4QP<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
&gt; Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
&gt; Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
&gt; Skype: parkintony<br>
&gt; MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; ________________________________________<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]
On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
target=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@tal=
k.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
&gt; Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi, Fergus,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past<b=
r>
&gt; experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. &nbsp;I=
<br>
&gt; did a<br>
&gt; quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
&gt; were all<br>
&gt; on holiday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
&gt; 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line<br>
&gt; reporting<br>
&gt; moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
&gt; next<br>
&gt; week.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
&gt; this<br>
&gt; issue:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1. &nbsp;The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
&gt; through<br>
&gt; activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
&gt; 'SmartAssess';<br>
&gt; 2. &nbsp;The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-=
to-<br>
&gt; date,<br>
&gt; such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
&gt; 3. &nbsp;The formative and possibly informal reporting available throu=
gh<br>
&gt; a good<br>
&gt; e-Portfolio system.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<br>
&gt; firstly it<br>
&gt; will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PS: &nbsp;BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by som=
e<br>
&gt; degree of<br>
&gt; 'sales pitch'.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best Wishes,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ray Tolley &nbsp;FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
&gt; ICT Education Consultant<br>
&gt; Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
&gt; P: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
&gt; B: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
&gt; W: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
&gt; Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
&gt; reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
&gt; practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
&gt; pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
&gt; colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
&gt; -<br>
&gt; especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
&gt; appreciated.<br>
&gt; I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
&gt; would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
&gt; receiving that. &nbsp;Thanks in anticipation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fergus Reynolds<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Advisory mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:Advisory@talk.naace.org"
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<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">www.beaconict.co.u=
k</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
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Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
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Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for tho=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ<br>
Mobile 07720 288540<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
Please note: &nbsp;This email and any attachments are intended only for tho=
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in the address list above. If it has come to you by mistake, please let me
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From andyp@edujam.org  Thu Jan  7 16:22:44 2010
From: andyp@edujam.org (Andy Preston)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:22:44 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <6097DEF80E7E4515A40C0B52D53C3510@PC312912324322>
Message-ID: <HOEKIMAIEIGAEPEHECMFMEFFEBAA.andyp@edujam.org>

Happy New Year,
Really hoping that Alistair can became education minister, this would be a
good tipping point.
Andy Preston
Programme Director - edujam cic
Email  - andyp@edujam.org
Mob    - 07733264984
Creative producers - Engaged learners
Visit our Website at www.edujam.org
 Stamp down on CO2. Please print only if required.
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incidental or consequential damages of any nature whatsoever resulting from
receipt or use of this communication.




-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 17:06
To: Stanley, Neil; advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


Absolutely Neil. Rather than being told what I should be better at (which
concindentally always seems to be exactly what the person telling me is
actually really into themselves), why not find out what I do and supply me
with something that actually helps... or indeed leave me alone because I'm
already doing it. In fact, now I come to think of it, did I actually ask for
any help ? :-)

Alistair


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley, Neil" <N.R.Stanley@ljmu.ac.uk>
To: "advisory" <advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools


> Maybe it's because it is data and not *information* - context isn't
> apparently relevant to or promptly derivable by the individual teacher;
> no ownership.
>
> Paper maps (well Google maps printed out) are relevant to the way I
> operate so are owned by me - wouldn't want a sat-nav so I don't own one.
> Same data on both.
>
> Teachers need to own the information - if they've never collected their
> own in any diligent manner (and experiences in mentoring trainees on
> placement indicates that this has been a problem) then they won't want
> someone else's format. If the system aids the collection, storage and
> analysis and they previously did this then they may accept it.
>
> Neil
>
>
> Neil Stanley MA(Ed) BSc AUS PGCE FHEA MBCS
> w: www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/edcnstan & www.stanleyweb.co.uk
>
> All we need is the perception of choice - real choice just confuses us.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
> [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
> Sent: 06 January 2010 15:51
> To: 'Williamson, Jon'; 'advisory'
> Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> <<That is often the fault of data providers for providing it as huge
> tables
> of data and graphs with limited interpretation, but also a challenge to
> teachers that they should be making better use of data to improve
> classroom
> teaching. >>
> I suspect that teachers are often made to feel inadequate because they
> cannot use huge chunks of data when in fact the failure is one of user
> interface.
> I reckon the challenge is to software providers to present codified data
> to
> teachers in timely, digestible and easily understandable chunks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with the
> body text:
>
> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
>
> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
>
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
> http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/advisory
> To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with the
> body text:
>
> unsubscribe Advisory YourEmailAddress
>
> or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
> with the body text:
>
> unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
>


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To unsubscribe send a message to Advisory-admin@talk.naace.org with the body
text:

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or: send a message to Advisory-request@talk.naace.org
with the body text:

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From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Thu Jan  7 20:38:08 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:38:08 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] FW: Low Cost, Reliable, Full Coverage Wi-Fi at Your School
Message-ID: <005201ca8fd9$52492140$f6db63c0$@co.uk>

Calling all Techies!  Would like to hear any feedback from this Webinar

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: Campus Technology Webinars [mailto:CT@1105Info.com] 
Sent: 07 January 2010 15:36
To: Ray Tolley
Subject: Low Cost, Reliable, Full Coverage Wi-Fi at Your School

FREE 60-Minute Webinar: Getting Smart About Wi-Fi at School

Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Time: 11 AM (PST), 2 PM (EST)

Yes! I would like to view this free webinar:
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Join us to hear David Monachi, network engineer at Douglas County School
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at a much lower cost. 

Built for educational organizations, the benefits of these smart systems are
numerous: 
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Learning objectives of the webinar will cover:
- 802.11n performance improvements
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- Dealing with interference 
- Adaptive wireless meshing and 
- Supporting streaming multimedia applications

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Register now to view this free webinar:
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T.H.E Journal and Campus Technology

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From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Fri Jan  8 12:47:12 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:47:12 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] I need my teachers to learn
Message-ID: <000501ca9060$b30fd5a0$192f80e0$@co.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Revised Version:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJUQtoe0TU

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Revised Version:<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU">http://www.youtube.=
com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU</a><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>BW<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><a =
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA9060.B30FD5A0--


From onside@blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jan  8 13:23:43 2010
From: onside@blueyonder.co.uk (Jeff Wickham)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:23:43 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
References: <000501ca9060$b30fd5a0$192f80e0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <84349BF843DF4CB78BD4EBB7C658067A@user08ad8a2935>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CA9065.CCEA8A60
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ray

The line about blocking content certainly struck a chord.

I was in a school recently where some Yr 10 Construction students were =
working on a H&S module. They had been struggling for some time with =
dull paperwork, so I thought a quick web search for video clips and =
images of dangerous working practices might lighten things up.=20

Yep, you've guessed it, access was denied.
Quite why anyone should block such material is beyond me.


Regards

Jeff Wickham  =20
Lotus Laser Education Consultant


07881 923542

Onside Consultants Ltd
www.onsideconsultants.co.uk
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ray Tolley=20
  To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org=20
  Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 12:47 PM
  Subject: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn


  Revised Version:

  =20

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU

  =20

  BW

  =20

  Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
  ICT Education Consultant
  Maximise ICT Ltd
  P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

  B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
  W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
  Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

  =20



-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20
  Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: =
01/07/10 19:35:00

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<BODY lang=3DEN-GB vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ray</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The&nbsp;line about blocking content =
certainly=20
struck a chord.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was in a school recently where some =
Yr 10=20
Construction students were working on a H&amp;S module. They had been =
struggling=20
for some time with dull paperwork, so I thought a&nbsp;quick web =
search&nbsp;for=20
video clips and images&nbsp;of dangerous working practices might lighten =
things=20
up. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yep, you've guessed it, access was=20
denied.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quite why anyone should block such =
material is=20
beyond me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jeff Wickham&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>Lotus Laser Education Consultant</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>07881 923542</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Onside Consultants Ltd<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.onsideconsultants.co.uk">www.onsideconsultants.co.uk</=
A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drjt@maximise-ict.co.uk =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">Ray=20
  Tolley</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dadvisory@talk.naace.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</A> ; =
<A=20
  title=3Dsecondary@talk.naace.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 08, 2010 =
12:47=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Secondary] I need my =
teachers=20
  to learn</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Revised Version:<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU">http://www.youtube.=
com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU</A><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>BW<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">Ray=20
  Tolley&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">FEIDCT,=20
  NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>ICT=20
  Education Consultant<BR>Maximise ICT Ltd<BR>P:&nbsp; </SPAN><A=20
  href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</SPAN></A=
><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">B:&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><A href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</SPAN></A><S=
PAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>W:&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><A href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</SPAN><=
/A><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #c00000; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">Winner=20
  of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG =
- <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A> <BR>Version: 8.5.432 / =
Virus=20
  Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10=20
19:35:00<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CA9065.CCEA8A60--



From dfee@btinternet.com  Fri Jan  8 14:41:04 2010
From: dfee@btinternet.com (Leon Cych)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:41:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
In-Reply-To: <84349BF843DF4CB78BD4EBB7C658067A@user08ad8a2935>
Message-ID: <369871.19726.qm@web86603.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

--0-465061155-1262961664=:19726
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think we're just going to retread old ground here endlessly about blockin=
g and upskilling. Does anyone have some concrete, practical, scoped solutio=
ns now to all this? Because, if not, then Naace should step in and work out=
 some perhaps without endless circular arguments.

Can anyone point to specific strategies "classroom up" and "RBC down" to co=
pe with lack of access as only one part of the jigsaw?=20

I think the problem only comes into high relief when someone notices it in =
an institution when someone needs to use certain resources - when I first s=
tarted writing resources for the net 15 years ago it was obvious then and i=
t still seems to have got no better in many cases.=20

But it's not really a case of "access" per se or digital natives or old vs =
young because I am beginning to think that really is the wrong end of the t=
elescope - what is needed is a co-ordinated questioning of the infrastructu=
re in the context of step change. Over the next few months I am going to be=
 asking these questions on video with people involved in the process up and=
 down the country - academics, teachers, commercial providers, quangos, pun=
dits, pupils, parents, policy advisors/ makers and other communities and I =
think it's time to make the debate far wider in scope.

So I am launching this :

http://www.l4l.co.uk/drupal/

Anyone who is interested in a brief video interview just sign up and I can =
start to get footage and flesh out how to effect change over and beyond jus=
t LAs or schools but a general mindset about what we want education for. Ov=
er the next few years it might be a much tougher time for education in gene=
ral in this country and around the world - if we retreat into solutions tha=
t mean we withdraw from engaging with social media technologies or cut back=
 on resources or not implement them in the first place then perhaps we shou=
ld regard why this is the case and what people want out of an education sys=
tem and how that will evolve.

I know that there are excellent projects like Futurelab's:

http://www.beyondcurrenthorizons.org.uk/scenarios

but in the nonce I am interested in garnering people's opinions about where=
 we are now and what changes they want.

So sign up on the Drupal site and there will be more to come in the followi=
ng months - it's a year long project and intended to take a digital litmus =
to the state of education in this country, why it needs to change and some =
of the changes that might be happening.

I guess I am lucky in that I get to enter into several different arenas whe=
re a lot of interesting activity is going on. My personal view it is to do =
with focusing on learning communites and how they are evolving using social=
 media, what, for want of a better phrase, "Digital Literacy" is and how th=
at will impact on our identity and the way we function as citizens nd how w=
e learn in the 21st Century.

The fact that we can't get access in so and so a place will be increasingly=
 irrelevant and as is increasingly shown in all sorts of institution, breed=
s irrelevancy of practice brought on by lack of resourcing (human or otheri=
wse) thus reducing practice to stale outmoded and quite boring ways of doin=
g things which serves no-one well- what I think is lacking in many cases is=
 good channels of info, involvement of community and vision for the communi=
ty as a whole but who knows - so I will be talking to people involved in se=
veral arenas and wanting answers or frameworks - I'd like to screen the res=
ults in the UK and start a debate around it - but I'll start small.=20

Cheers,

Leon Cych

--- On Fri, 8/1/10, Jeff Wickham <onside@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

From: Jeff Wickham <onside@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
To: "Ray Tolley" <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>, advisory@talk.naace.org, seconda=
ry@talk.naace.org
Date: Friday, 8 January, 2010, 13:23

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ards=0A=A0=0AJeff Wickham=A0=A0=20
Lotus Laser Education Consultant=0A=A0=0A
07881 923542=0A=A0=0AOnside Consultants Ltd
www.onsideconsultants.co.uk=0A=0A  ----- Original Message ----- =0A  From: =
=0A  Ray =0A  Tolley =0A  To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naac=
e.org =0A  Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 12:47 =0A  PM=0A  Subject: [Secon=
dary] I need my teachers =0A  to learn=0A =20
=0A  =0A  Revised Version: =0A   =A0 =0A  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D=
mxJUQtoe0TU =0A   =A0 =0A  BW =0A   =A0 =0A  Ray =0A  Tolley=A0 FEIDCT, =0A=
  NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT =0A  Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:=A0 http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/ =0A  B:=A0 =0A  http://www.=
efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:=A0 =0A  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner =0A  of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009' =0A   =A0 =0A  =0A =
 =0A=0A =20
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus =0A  Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/=
07/10 =0A19:35:00

--0-465061155-1262961664=:19726
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">I think we're just going to retread old groun=
d here endlessly about blocking and upskilling. Does anyone have some concr=
ete, practical, scoped solutions now to all this? Because, if not, then Naa=
ce should step in and work out some perhaps without endless circular argume=
nts.<br><br>Can anyone point to specific strategies "classroom up" and "RBC=
 down" to cope with lack of access as only one part of the jigsaw? <br><br>=
I think the problem only comes into high relief when someone notices it in =
an institution when someone needs to use certain resources - when I first s=
tarted writing resources for the net 15 years ago it was obvious then and i=
t still seems to have got no better in many cases. <br><br>But it's not rea=
lly a case of "access" per se or digital natives or old vs young because I =
am beginning to think that really is the wrong end of the telescope - what =
is
 needed is a co-ordinated questioning of the infrastructure in the context =
of step change. Over the next few months I am going to be asking these ques=
tions on video with people involved in the process up and down the country =
- academics, teachers, commercial providers, quangos, pundits, pupils, pare=
nts, policy advisors/ makers and other communities and I think it's time to=
 make the debate far wider in scope.<br><br>So I am launching this :<br><br=
>http://www.l4l.co.uk/drupal/<br><br>Anyone who is interested in a brief vi=
deo interview just sign up and I can start to get footage and flesh out how=
 to effect change over and beyond just LAs or schools but a general mindset=
 about what we want education for. Over the next few years it might be a mu=
ch tougher time for education in general in this country and around the wor=
ld - if we retreat into solutions that mean we withdraw from engaging with =
social media technologies or cut back on resources or not implement
 them in the first place then perhaps we should regard why this is the case=
 and what people want out of an education system and how that will evolve.<=
br><br>I know that there are excellent projects like Futurelab's:<br><br>ht=
tp://www.beyondcurrenthorizons.org.uk/scenarios<br><br>but in the nonce I a=
m interested in garnering people's opinions about where we are now and what=
 changes they want.<br><br>So sign up on the Drupal site and there will be =
more to come in the following months - it's a year long project and intende=
d to take a digital litmus to the state of education in this country, why i=
t needs to change and some of the changes that might be happening.<br><br>I=
 guess I am lucky in that I get to enter into several different arenas wher=
e a lot of interesting activity is going on. My personal view it is to do w=
ith focusing on learning communites and how they are evolving using social =
media, what, for want of a better phrase, "Digital Literacy" is and
 how that will impact on our identity and the way we function as citizens n=
d how we learn in the 21st Century.<br><br>The fact that we can't get acces=
s in so and so a place will be increasingly irrelevant and as is increasing=
ly shown in all sorts of institution, breeds irrelevancy of practice brough=
t on by lack of resourcing (human or otheriwse) thus reducing practice to s=
tale outmoded and quite boring ways of doing things which serves no-one wel=
l- what I think is lacking in many cases is good channels of info, involvem=
ent of community and vision for the community as a whole but who knows - so=
 I will be talking to people involved in several arenas and wanting answers=
 or frameworks - I'd like to screen the results in the UK and start a debat=
e around it - but I'll start small. <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Leon Cych<br><br=
>--- On <b>Fri, 8/1/10, Jeff Wickham <i>&lt;onside@blueyonder.co.uk&gt;</i>=
</b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Jeff Wickham &lt;ons=
ide@blueyonder.co.uk&gt;<br>Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my t=
eachers to learn<br>To: "Ray Tolley" &lt;rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk&gt;, adviso=
ry@talk.naace.org, secondary@talk.naace.org<br>Date: Friday, 8 January, 201=
0, 13:23<br><br><div id=3D"yiv277934807">=0A=0A =0A =0A<style> _filtered #y=
iv277934807 {=0Afont-family:Calibri;}=0A _filtered #yiv277934807 {margin:72=
.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}=0A#yiv277934807 P.MsoNormal {=0AFONT-SIZE:11pt;=
MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv277934807 LI=
.MsoNormal {=0AFONT-SIZE:11pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sa=
ns-serif";}=0A#yiv277934807 DIV.MsoNormal {=0AFONT-SIZE:11pt;MARGIN:0cm 0cm=
 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv277934807 A:link {=0ACOLOR=
:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv277934807 SPAN.MsoHyperlink {=0ACOL=
OR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv277934807 A:visited {=0ACOLOR:pur=
ple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv277934807 SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {=
=0ACOLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}=0A#yiv277934807 SPAN.EmailStyle=
17 {=0ACOLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv2779348=
07 .MsoChpDefault {=0A}=0A#yiv277934807 DIV.Section1 {=0A}=0A</style>=0A<di=
v><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Ray</font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">T=
he&nbsp;line about blocking content certainly =0Astruck a chord.</font></di=
v>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><font =
size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">I was in a school recently where some Yr 10 =0ACo=
nstruction students were working on a H&amp;S module. They had been struggl=
ing =0Afor some time with dull paperwork, so I thought a&nbsp;quick web sea=
rch&nbsp;for =0Avideo clips and images&nbsp;of dangerous working practices =
might lighten things =0Aup. </font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font><=
/div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><fo=
nt size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Yep, you've guessed it, access was =0Adenied.<=
/font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Quite why anyone should=
 block such material is =0Abeyond me.</font></div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><=
/font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Regards</div>=0A<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Ari=
al"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Jeff Wickham&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>Lotus Laser Edu=
cation Consultant</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div><br>07881 923542</div>=
=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Onside Consultants Ltd<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.onsideconsultants.co.uk">www.onsidecons=
ultants.co.uk</a></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0=
, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-ri=
ght: 0px;">=0A  <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-=
variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;=
 font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">-----=
 Original Message ----- </div>=0A  <div style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, =
228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-backgroun=
d-origin: padding; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous; font-family: =
arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-=
size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: norm=
al; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b> =0A  <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"r=
jt@maximise-ict.co.uk" ymailto=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=3D"=
_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Drjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">Ray =0A  Tolley</a=
> </div>=0A  <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-var=
iant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; fo=
nt-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</=
b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dadvisor=
y@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a> ; <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=
=3D"secondary@talk.naace.org" ymailto=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dsecondary@talk.naace.org">seconda=
ry@talk.naace.org</a> </div>=0A  <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-sty=
le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-f=
ont: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 08, 2010 12:47 =0A  PM</div>=0A  <=
div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust=
: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> [Secon=
dary] I need my teachers =0A  to learn</div>=0A  <div><br></div>=0A  <div c=
lass=3D"Section1">=0A  <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Revised Version:</p> =0A  <p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p> =0A  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU=
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU</a></p> =0A  <p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"> &nbsp;</p> =0A  <p class=3D"MsoNormal">BW</p> =0A  <p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"> &nbsp;</p> =0A  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Ray =0A  =
Tolley&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
 font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">FEIDCT, =0A  NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD=
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family=
: 'Arial','sans-serif';"><br>ICT =0A  Education Consultant<br>Maximise ICT =
Ltd<br>P:&nbsp; </span><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:/=
/raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color:=
 blue; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.m=
nscu.edu/</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125)=
; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"></span></p> =0A  <p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'A=
rial','sans-serif';">B:&nbsp; =0A  </span><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">http://www.efoli=
ointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"><br>W:&nbsp; =0A  </span=
><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.u=
k/eFolio-01.htm"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: =
'Arial','sans-serif';">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></=
a><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Ar=
ial','sans-serif';"><br></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(1=
92, 0, 0); font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Winner =0A  of the IMS 'Lead=
ership Regional Award 2009'</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=
</span></p> =0A  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</p></div> =0A  <p>=0A  </p>=
<hr>=0A=0A  <p></p><br>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>Checked =
by AVG - <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.avg.com">=
www.avg.com</a> <br>Version: 8.5.432 / Virus =0A  Database: 270.14.129/2606=
 - Release Date: 01/07/10 =0A19:35:00<br></blockquote></div></blockquote></=
td></tr></table>
--0-465061155-1262961664=:19726--

From BobharrisonSET@aol.com  Fri Jan  8 14:45:55 2010
From: BobharrisonSET@aol.com (BobharrisonSET@aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:45:55 EST
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
Message-ID: <d32.6beda3d6.38789f23@aol.com>

-------------------------------1262961955
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Speaking of step changes this is Vital:
 
_http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2010/01/07/teacher-skills-vital-to-avoid-crisi
s-of-relevance/_ 
(http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2010/01/07/teacher-skills-vital-to-avoid-crisis-of-relevance/) 
 
Best  Wishes,

Bob Harrison,
Education Adviser, Toshiba Information  Systems(UK) Ltd
Consultant ,BECTA and National College for School  Leadership
Support for Education and Training
16  Meadowgate,
URMSTON,
Manchester
M419LB
01617498987
07957856117
bob@setuk.co.uk
_www.setuk.co.uk_ (http://www.setuk.co.uk/) 
_www.twitter.com/bobharrison_ (http://www.twitter.com/bobharrison)   

" While this study has looked closely at the impact of ICT on how  pupils 
learn and how this might be enhanced....it has not addressed the impact  of 
what they learn or where learning takes place and whether the schools of the  
future will be the physical entities we have today" The Impact of ICT in  
schools-a landscape review-Becta 2007

"Using technology to improve  education is not rocket science...it is 
much,much harder than that" Diana  Laurillard, Opening Up Education 2009

"An intensified activity in this  area will lead educational institutions 
to realize that they are embedded in a  globalised and constantly evolving 
knowledge society, and that, as a  consequence, they will have to redefine 
their role within society and within the  learning process."
Joint Research Centre
Institute for Prospective  Technological Studies 2009


-------------------------------1262961955
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6001.18349" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY=
: Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Dr=
ole_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>Speaking of step changes this is Vital:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2010/01/07/teacher-skills-vital-to-av=
oid-crisis-of-relevance/">http://flux.futurelab.org.uk/2010/01/07/teacher-=
skills-vital-to-avoid-crisis-of-relevance/</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"1=
0"><I>Best=20
Wishes,<BR><BR>Bob Harrison,<BR>Education Adviser, Toshiba Information=20
Systems(UK) Ltd<BR>Consultant ,BECTA and National College for School=20
Leadership<BR>Support for Education and Training<BR>16=20
Meadowgate,<BR>URMSTON,<BR>Manchester<BR>M419LB<BR>01617498987<BR>07957856=
117<BR>bob@setuk.co.uk<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.setuk.co.uk/">www.setuk.co.uk</A><U><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.twitter.com/bobharrison">www.twitter.com/bobharrison</A=
><U>=20
<BR></U><BR>" While this study has looked closely at the impact of ICT on=
 how=20
pupils learn and how this might be enhanced....it has not addressed the im=
pact=20
of what they learn or where learning takes place and whether the schools=
 of the=20
future will be the physical entities we have today" The Impact of ICT in=
=20
schools-a landscape review-Becta 2007<BR><BR>"Using technology to improve=
=20
education is not rocket science...it is much,much harder than that" Diana=
=20
Laurillard, Opening Up Education 2009<BR><BR>"An intensified activity in=
 this=20
area will lead educational institutions to realize that they are embedded=
 in a=20
globalised and constantly evolving knowledge society, and that, as a=20
consequence, they will have to redefine their role within society and with=
in the=20
learning process."<BR>Joint Research Centre<BR>Institute for Prospective=
=20
Technological Studies 2009<BR></I></U></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1262961955--

From BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk  Wed Jan  6 09:44:20 2010
From: BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk (BL Mr K Buncle)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:44:20 +0000
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
In-Reply-To: <001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk>
 <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan>
 <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk>
 <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT>
 <002501ca8e04$28ac3bf0$7a04b3d0$@co.uk>
 <00fd01ca8e2e$5402a620$fc07f260$@co.uk>,<001401ca8e41$c034baa0$409e2fe0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <CE0C1A800A505D4993439C994F5EB9690252011907@exchange3>

This is a very interesting strand.

It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers to move students learning forward.  We do have several stakeholder audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child is either working towards at present or likely  achieve, pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels.  Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar agendas.  I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here.  Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats.  Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to gain.
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.
As with many schools:
� We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).
� We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print them out on paper and post them home.
� A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and advice on how to write reports.
� A rolling program of updating the technology.
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house technical support that has taken time to bring together.  This is a huge investment.
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide the different stakeholders with meaningful feedback.  If there is no impact in the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one should question the value of the process!  We are currently looking at what real time reporting will look like in the future.

The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see what their child has done during a particular school day.  Is this a reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases?  Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?

We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model that we want for our students in the future.

Keith Buncle
Data Systems Leader
South Bromsgrove Community High School

________________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

John, you bring to mind an anecdote:

Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."

When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"

Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"

That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.

I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report
issued termly or annually as real time.

The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates much
more to

What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.

Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent
to some  but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.

Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.

This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.

As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.

regards,

John

John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd

Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176



-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

Crispin,

For once I feel that I must disagree with you.  Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make.  On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?

Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?

BW

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Fri Jan  8 15:50:16 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:50:16 -0000
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
In-Reply-To: <369871.19726.qm@web86603.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <84349BF843DF4CB78BD4EBB7C658067A@user08ad8a2935> <369871.19726.qm@web86603.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca907a$461c4c70$d254e550$@co.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Yes, Leon,

Completely agreed.

 

Modern pedagogies have been creeping up on us for the last 5-10 years at
least.  But as I attempt to point up, it is not so much the WHAT or the HOW
of technologies so much as the WHY of pedagogies that teachers and
administrators need to learn and understand:

 

 
<http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-need-my-teachers-to-learn.html>
http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-need-my-teachers-to-learn.html

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Leon Cych
Sent: 08 January 2010 14:41
To: Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org; Jeff
Wickham
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn

 


I think we're just going to retread old ground here endlessly about blocking
and upskilling. Does anyone have some concrete, practical, scoped solutions
now to all this? Because, if not, then Naace should step in and work out
some perhaps without endless circular arguments.

Can anyone point to specific strategies "classroom up" and "RBC down" to
cope with lack of access as only one part of the jigsaw? 

I think the problem only comes into high relief when someone notices it in
an institution when someone needs to use certain resources - when I first
started writing resources for the net 15 years ago it was obvious then and
it still seems to have got no better in many cases. 

But it's not really a case of "access" per se or digital natives or old vs
young because I am beginning to think that really is the wrong end of the
telescope - what is needed is a co-ordinated questioning of the
infrastructure in the context of step change. Over the next few months I am
going to be asking these questions on video with people involved in the
process up and down the country - academics, teachers, commercial providers,
quangos, pundits, pupils, parents, policy advisors/ makers and other
communities and I think it's time to make the debate far wider in scope.

So I am launching this :

http://www.l4l.co.uk/drupal/

Anyone who is interested in a brief video interview just sign up and I can
start to get footage and flesh out how to effect change over and beyond just
LAs or schools but a general mindset about what we want education for. Over
the next few years it might be a much tougher time for education in general
in this country and around the world - if we retreat into solutions that
mean we withdraw from engaging with social media technologies or cut back on
resources or not implement them in the first place then perhaps we should
regard why this is the case and what people want out of an education system
and how that will evolve.

I know that there are excellent projects like Futurelab's:

http://www.beyondcurrenthorizons.org.uk/scenarios

but in the nonce I am interested in garnering people's opinions about where
we are now and what changes they want.

So sign up on the Drupal site and there will be more to come in the
following months - it's a year long project and intended to take a digital
litmus to the state of education in this country, why it needs to change and
some of the changes that might be happening.

I guess I am lucky in that I get to enter into several different arenas
where a lot of interesting activity is going on. My personal view it is to
do with focusing on learning communites and how they are evolving using
social media, what, for want of a better phrase, "Digital Literacy" is and
how that will impact on our identity and the way we function as citizens nd
how we learn in the 21st Century.

The fact that we can't get access in so and so a place will be increasingly
irrelevant and as is increasingly shown in all sorts of institution, breeds
irrelevancy of practice brought on by lack of resourcing (human or
otheriwse) thus reducing practice to stale outmoded and quite boring ways of
doing things which serves no-one well- what I think is lacking in many cases
is good channels of info, involvement of community and vision for the
community as a whole but who knows - so I will be talking to people involved
in several arenas and wanting answers or frameworks - I'd like to screen the
results in the UK and start a debate around it - but I'll start small. 

Cheers,

Leon Cych

--- On Fri, 8/1/10, Jeff Wickham <onside@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:




From: Jeff Wickham <onside@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn
To: "Ray Tolley" <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>, advisory@talk.naace.org,
secondary@talk.naace.org
Date: Friday, 8 January, 2010, 13:23

Ray

 

The line about blocking content certainly struck a chord.

 

I was in a school recently where some Yr 10 Construction students were
working on a H&S module. They had been struggling for some time with dull
paperwork, so I thought a quick web search for video clips and images of
dangerous working practices might lighten things up. 

 

Yep, you've guessed it, access was denied.

Quite why anyone should block such material is beyond me.

 

 

Regards

 

Jeff Wickham   
Lotus Laser Education Consultant

 


07881 923542

 

Onside Consultants Ltd
 <http://www.onsideconsultants.co.uk> www.onsideconsultants.co.uk

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ray Tolley 

To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org 

Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 12:47 PM

Subject: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn

 

Revised Version:

 

 <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJUQtoe0TU>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJUQtoe0TU

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 

  _____  


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Yes, Leon,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Completely agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Modern pedagogies have been creeping up on us for the =
last 5-10
years at least.&nbsp; But as I attempt to point up, it is not so much =
the WHAT
or the HOW of technologies so much as the WHY of pedagogies that =
teachers and
administrators need to learn and understand:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-need-my-teachers-to-l=
earn.html"><span
style=3D'color:windowtext'>http://efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-ne=
ed-my-teachers-to-learn.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><u><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></u></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><u><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></u></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><u><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></u></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Leon =
Cych<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 January 2010 14:41<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org; Jeff
Wickham<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to =
learn<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>I think we're just going to retread old ground =
here
  endlessly about blocking and upskilling. Does anyone have some =
concrete,
  practical, scoped solutions now to all this? Because, if not, then =
Naace
  should step in and work out some perhaps without endless circular =
arguments.<br>
  <br>
  Can anyone point to specific strategies &quot;classroom up&quot; and
  &quot;RBC down&quot; to cope with lack of access as only one part of =
the
  jigsaw? <br>
  <br>
  I think the problem only comes into high relief when someone notices =
it in an
  institution when someone needs to use certain resources - when I first
  started writing resources for the net 15 years ago it was obvious then =
and it
  still seems to have got no better in many cases. <br>
  <br>
  But it's not really a case of &quot;access&quot; per se or digital =
natives or
  old vs young because I am beginning to think that really is the wrong =
end of
  the telescope - what is needed is a co-ordinated questioning of the
  infrastructure in the context of step change. Over the next few months =
I am
  going to be asking these questions on video with people involved in =
the
  process up and down the country - academics, teachers, commercial =
providers,
  quangos, pundits, pupils, parents, policy advisors/ makers and other
  communities and I think it's time to make the debate far wider in =
scope.<br>
  <br>
  So I am launching this :<br>
  <br>
  http://www.l4l.co.uk/drupal/<br>
  <br>
  Anyone who is interested in a brief video interview just sign up and I =
can
  start to get footage and flesh out how to effect change over and =
beyond just
  LAs or schools but a general mindset about what we want education for. =
Over
  the next few years it might be a much tougher time for education in =
general
  in this country and around the world - if we retreat into solutions =
that mean
  we withdraw from engaging with social media technologies or cut back =
on
  resources or not implement them in the first place then perhaps we =
should
  regard why this is the case and what people want out of an education =
system
  and how that will evolve.<br>
  <br>
  I know that there are excellent projects like Futurelab's:<br>
  <br>
  http://www.beyondcurrenthorizons.org.uk/scenarios<br>
  <br>
  but in the nonce I am interested in garnering people's opinions about =
where
  we are now and what changes they want.<br>
  <br>
  So sign up on the Drupal site and there will be more to come in the =
following
  months - it's a year long project and intended to take a digital =
litmus to
  the state of education in this country, why it needs to change and =
some of
  the changes that might be happening.<br>
  <br>
  I guess I am lucky in that I get to enter into several different =
arenas where
  a lot of interesting activity is going on. My personal view it is to =
do with
  focusing on learning communites and how they are evolving using social =
media,
  what, for want of a better phrase, &quot;Digital Literacy&quot; is and =
how
  that will impact on our identity and the way we function as citizens =
nd how
  we learn in the 21st Century.<br>
  <br>
  The fact that we can't get access in so and so a place will be =
increasingly
  irrelevant and as is increasingly shown in all sorts of institution, =
breeds
  irrelevancy of practice brought on by lack of resourcing (human or =
otheriwse)
  thus reducing practice to stale outmoded and quite boring ways of =
doing
  things which serves no-one well- what I think is lacking in many cases =
is
  good channels of info, involvement of community and vision for the =
community
  as a whole but who knows - so I will be talking to people involved in =
several
  arenas and wanting answers or frameworks - I'd like to screen the =
results in
  the UK and start a debate around it - but I'll start small. <br>
  <br>
  Cheers,<br>
  <br>
  Leon Cych<br>
  <br>
  --- On <b>Fri, 8/1/10, Jeff Wickham =
<i>&lt;onside@blueyonder.co.uk&gt;</i></b>
  wrote:<br>
  <br>
  <o:p></o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
  From: Jeff Wickham &lt;onside@blueyonder.co.uk&gt;<br>
  Subject: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] I need my teachers to learn<br>
  To: &quot;Ray Tolley&quot; &lt;rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk&gt;,
  advisory@talk.naace.org, secondary@talk.naace.org<br>
  Date: Friday, 8 January, 2010, 13:23<o:p></o:p></p>
  <div id=3Dyiv277934807>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ray</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The&nbsp;line=

  about blocking content certainly struck a chord.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
  was in a school recently where some Yr 10 Construction students were =
working
  on a H&amp;S module. They had been struggling for some time with dull
  paperwork, so I thought a&nbsp;quick web search&nbsp;for video clips =
and
  images&nbsp;of dangerous working practices might lighten things up. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Yep,
  you've guessed it, access was denied.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Quite
  why anyone should block such material is beyond =
me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Jeff Wickham&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
  Lotus Laser Education Consultant<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
  07881 923542<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Onside Consultants Ltd<br>
  <a href=3D"http://www.onsideconsultants.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank"><u><span
  =
style=3D'color:blue'>www.onsideconsultants.co.uk</span></u></a><o:p></o:p=
></p>
  </div>
  <blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
  =
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
  Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
  font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
  href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Drjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=3D"_blank"
  title=3D"rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"><u><span style=3D'color:blue'>Ray =
Tolley</span></u></a>
  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
  href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dadvisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"
  title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org"><u><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>advisory@talk.naace.org</span></u></a>
  ; <a href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dsecondary@talk.naace.org" =
target=3D"_blank"
  title=3D"secondary@talk.naace.org"><u><span =
style=3D'color:blue'>secondary@talk.naace.org</span></u></a>
  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Friday, =
January
  08, 2010 12:47 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> =
[Secondary] I need
  my teachers to learn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Revised
  Version:<o:p></o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a
  href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU" =
target=3D"_blank"><u><span
  =
style=3D'color:blue'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DmxJUQtoe0TU</span><=
/u></a><o:p></o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>BW<o:p></o:p=
></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>Ray
  Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
  color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
  ICT Education Consultant<br>
  Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
  P:&nbsp; </span><a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
  target=3D"_blank"><u><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
  =
color:blue'>http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></u></a><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>B:&nbsp;
  </span><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank"><u><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>ht=
tp://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></u></a><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
  W:&nbsp; </span><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
  target=3D"_blank"><u><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
  =
color:blue'>http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></u></a><sp=
an
  =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
  </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
  color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
  </div>
  <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'>
  <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
  </div>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
  No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
  Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><u><span
  style=3D'color:blue'>www.avg.com</span></u></a> <br>
  Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: =
01/07/10
  19:35:00<o:p></o:p></p>
  </blockquote>
  </div>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0046_01CA907A.461C4C70--


From rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk  Fri Jan  8 16:24:14 2010
From: rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk (Ray Tolley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:24:14 -0000
Subject: [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
In-Reply-To: <181D0F1FFA8940C4A36F07A3B7CFB764@PC312912324322>
References: <000901ca8a16$9de25590$d9a700b0$@co.uk> <2D520FDE0B44734798B7FE6FAA5E298397A4A0EE40@Hermes.sst.lan> <000301ca8a43$bcaa4dc0$35fee940$@org.uk> <0D4E38D961F74946AD3A45FFA229859E@DEVELOPMENT> <31510a51001050244r51d51012lf50e6f764c4ffc53@mail.gmail.com> <11F1B43E88C948B1A0D7B8A5BDA35480@DEVELOPMENT> <52D7F609BD764880841C012BC942A064@PC312912324322> <004201ca8ed2$de186ee0$9a494ca0$@co.uk> <181D0F1FFA8940C4A36F07A3B7CFB764@PC312912324322>
Message-ID: <005501ca907f$0484aa50$0d8dfef0$@co.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CA907F.0484AA50
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi, All,

 

In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A.  I think that there is no need
to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced view.   I have been phoning round
a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all claim to be on the verge of
delivering on-line and real-time reporting.  I'm sure that lots of promises
will be made at BETT next week.  We need to be talking to these people and
really make constructive and supportive suggestions.

 

However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a bit simplistic in
terms of number crunching, IS a start.  Parents and pupils are both
comfortable with the scenario - and the kids don't see it as spying.

 

So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different context, let's start
actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than the negative
clouds of gloom and doubt.  Surely this, again, is a job for Naace - or
should we look elsewhere?  ;-)

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 

From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 14:20
To: Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious
rant

 

Hi Ray

 

No. I agree. at least in so much as John's concept of what parents would
find genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learning
is concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work
available online, 'cause why wouldn't you ? Personally, I like your anecdote
and am happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's
working for them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is
really happening here in education. If the current climate continues to be
allowed to thrive, then the funding and the support will not go towards
supporting the development of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from one
'administrator' to another, because 'all you would have to show for it'
would be an anecdote whilst 'they' would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie
another boring graph.

 

I think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how easy administration
would be if we were all literally vegetables.

 

I am under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty
bound to do what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the
online agenda, but the underlying principles that are masked by its
potential development in what i see to be the wrong direction for, not just
ICT in the UK, but potentially the state of the world.

 

I too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting.
However, I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any water
in 5 years time if we don't rant like lunatics about this now.

 

I'm starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to
convey what I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily.
I'm trying to understand why a system for generating new levels of
uninteresting information might be sought after, whilst also trying to flag
up something much more important about the state of our nation which online
graphs (and yes that IS what we will probably end up with) will only
consolidate. None of it's important. None of it. My child might be level 1,
he might be level 10. He might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I
would like to know how his life is going, that he and the people around him
genuinely know who he is and that he is going to live in a  world where
that's OK.

 

I'm upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated,
unprofessional or invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not be
used as a benchmark for developing online systems because it's not on a
spreadsheet.

 

I'm going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never met.

 

Alistair

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ray Tolley <mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>  

To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org 

Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:19 PM

Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

 

Allistair,

 

I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45
years at the chalkface.

 

However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is
about progress and process.  In other words where the learner has come from,
where they are now and where they want to get to.

 

Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual
evidences of work done and progress made?  And for that matter not being
suddenly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?

 

I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the
potential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)
teachers.  This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about.  No pressure
on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written
late at night in a stupor of tiredness.  But rather a progressive
compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and monitored
documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.

 

As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting.  Let's
all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!

 

BW

 

Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P:   <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/

B:   <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W:   <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'

 

From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant

 

Hi Crispin et al

 

Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and
I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy
is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's
comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong
development of this also.

 

I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
time ago on this subject.

 

The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise
:).

 

The second is Einstein's:

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted."

(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here,
but I still like it)

 

The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
levels is this;

"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." -
Pure genius.

 

To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
what goes on where. Job done.

 

The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the
sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my
meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly
and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old
school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on
it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or
may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the
pub.

 

I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen
square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me
to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you
can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.
I won't be joining you.

 

Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not.
The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'
that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in
that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in that
exam. What about it?

 

To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good
my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work
it out.

 

Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.

 

Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite
clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.

 

I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
emotion. God help us.

 

Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like
our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to
category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one
even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up. 

 

Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is
really not likely to be the source of the problem.

 

There is only one purpose to life: To live.

Take a deep breath... and begin.

 

 

Alistair Goodwin

Hants

N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly happy to share them :-)

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Crispin Weston <mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>  

To: 'advisory' <mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>  

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM

Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools

 

Hi all,

 

I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and
apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.

 

@Mike. I agree.

 

@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.
My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become more
like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, of
course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some
of the essential prerequisites beforehand.

 

Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled
individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that
efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they
have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A
student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant
to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
being taught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just
because the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that
student's learning needs are.

 

To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:

 

"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"

 

I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and
what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that
he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that
you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
extraordinarily primitive.

 

I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment 

 

"the graphs ? I seriously do not 

understand where they fit in"

 

but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs. 

 

So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of
the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation
for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart
from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must
have mastered the necessary prerequisites. 

 

So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer
gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.

 

We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have
to have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.

 

Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an
important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the
data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back
to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system
is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more
motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat
people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the
system.

 

@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the
requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.

 

I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many
other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants
who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone
any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work".
It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly
and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.

 

Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it
has been such a disaster that it wasn't. 

 

Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that
this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
reporting to parents can become. 

 

@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency
which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.

 

@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My
responses inline.


All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. 

I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! 

Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and
grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher
comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One
of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to
do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
automated wherever possible.

While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
well.

That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into
your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills that
are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.

So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this
as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.

I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a
philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large
number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency
with some degree of confidence.

Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.

Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an
*output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on
subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given
some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. If
that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been
done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.
Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to me
to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment,
intervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we
all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.

And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are
actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within a
particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty
humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate
teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a
class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow
them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to
offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence
with flexible grouping and staffing systems.

The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. 

I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us)
is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as
a "live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation,
discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.

At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.

I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The
traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original
and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that
I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many
students and many types of examination - but I think that a properly
reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests which
do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
learning.

So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? 

I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily -
others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact
that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
(whether you agree with the views or not).

or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all? 

I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring
the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system. 

I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.

I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, with
the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This is
all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarket
terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much
Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without
noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robots are
fantastically useful.

I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.

I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more
data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
asks the class to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the
students have done, if anything?

One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
(and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data
aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.

Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't
swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because
it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want
to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
their child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point
about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
itself.

One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have
become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make
sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for
teacher as required.

In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
business. 

Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.
Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),
use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the
problem.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should
benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same
time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service
that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort
of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniques
does not run.

I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!

Crispin.

 

2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>

It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and  it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
>     * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
>     * Progress and attainment
>     * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk> 
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles.  I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1.  The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2.  The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3.  The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS:  BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley  FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P:  http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B:  http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W:  http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that.  Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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-- 

Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
122 Beacon Road, Broadstairs, Kent CT10 3DQ
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi, All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A.&nbsp; I =
think that
there is no need to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced =
view.&nbsp;&nbsp; I
have been phoning round a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all =
claim
to be on the verge of delivering on-line and real-time reporting.&nbsp; =
I&#8217;m
sure that lots of promises will be made at BETT next week.&nbsp; We need =
to be
talking to these people and really make constructive and supportive =
suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a =
bit
simplistic in terms of number crunching, IS a start.&nbsp; Parents and =
pupils
are both comfortable with the scenario &#8211; and the kids don&#8217;t =
see it
as spying.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different =
context, let&#8217;s
start actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than =
the negative
clouds of gloom and doubt.&nbsp; Surely this, again, is a job for Naace =
&#8211;
or should we look elsewhere?&nbsp; ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W:&nbsp; </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair =
Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 14:20<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - =
A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi
Ray</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No.
I agree. at least&nbsp;in so much as John's concept of what parents =
would find
genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learning =
is
concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work =
available
online, 'cause why wouldn't you ?&nbsp;Personally, I like your anecdote =
and am
happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's =
working for
them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is really =
happening
here in education. If the current climate continues to be allowed to =
thrive,
then the funding and the support will not go towards supporting the =
development
of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from one 'administrator' to =
another,
because 'all you would have to show for it' would be an anecdote whilst =
'they'
would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie another boring =
graph.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how =
easy&nbsp;administration
would be if we were all literally vegetables.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I&nbsp;am
under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty bound =
to do
what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the online =
agenda,
but the underlying principles that are masked by its potential =
development in
what i see to be the wrong direction for, not just ICT in the UK, but
potentially the state of the world.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting. =
However,
I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any water in 5 =
years
time if we don't rant like lunatics about&nbsp;this =
now.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to =
convey what
I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily. I'm trying =
to
understand why a system for generating new levels of uninteresting =
information
might be sought after, whilst also trying to flag up something much more
important about the state of our nation which online graphs (and yes =
that IS
what we will probably end up with) will only consolidate. None of it's
important. None of it. My child might be level 1, he might be level 10. =
He
might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I would like to know how =
his
life is going, that he and the people around him genuinely know who he
is&nbsp;and that he is going to live in a&nbsp; world where that's =
OK.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated, =
unprofessional or
invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not be used as a =
benchmark
for developing online systems because it's not on a =
spreadsheet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never =
met.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alistair</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
title=3D"rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">Ray Tolley</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Wednesday, =
January
06, 2010 1:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Allistair,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate where you are coming =
from after
my own 45 years at the chalkface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting &#8216;thing&#8217; is =
not about
grades or graphs it is about progress and process. &nbsp;In other words =
where
the learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child&#8217;s progress =
through
seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? &nbsp;And =
for that
matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents&#8217; =
Meeting?