[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
Neil Adam
neil@beaconict.co.uk
Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:44:32 +0000
--0016e6d9a2c7f02d30047c6885e9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Crispin
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. That is the problem with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a
subjective element that "learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way,
but which are vital to modern life.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. At
the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes
after all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so
until the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial
intelligence is delivered.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.
Regards and happy new year to all
Neil
2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> > * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> > * Progress and attainment
> > * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
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> > with the body text:
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
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Neil Adam
Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
www.beaconict.co.uk
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--0016e6d9a2c7f02d30047c6885e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Crispin<br><br>All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are n=
ot "articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.=
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -=
much of it has a subjective element that "learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot autom=
atically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a =
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in =
that way, but which are vital to modern life.<br>
<br>The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload thro=
ugh automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what =
can be reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is c=
reating more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as i=
t becomes harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display yea=
r-on-year. That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam =
debate. At the moment people are (because the current system is more reduct=
ionist, criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are=
going up. But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to t=
he next stage of education and into work actually more capable (as against =
"competent")? I think not.<br>
<br>So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce software=
-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all=
? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the =
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is de=
livered.<br>
<br>I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learner=
s to learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasi=
ng a data-driven dream.<br><br>Regards and happy new year to all<br><br>
Neil<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.wes=
ton@alphalearning.co.uk</a>></span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.=
8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive<b=
r>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On B=
ehalf Of Colin J Revell<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
><br>
> Some thought for comment;<br>
><br>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
> parents<br>
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"<b=
r>
> information about<br>
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
> reporting<br>
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
> Ed Balls<br>
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
><br>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
> whom and<br>
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
> and I am<br>
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
> this<br>
> change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
><br>
> Colin<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><b=
r>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
> Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Fergus<br>
><br>
> ... and =A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<=
br>
> journey<br>
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on=
the<br>
> Becta<br>
> website.....?<br>
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
> offerings<br>
> measure up against these requirements?<br>
><br>
> "What is online reporting?<br>
><br>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
> access<br>
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
> behaviour<br>
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
><br>
> What do I have to do and when?<br>
><br>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
> available<br>
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Special needs<br>
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
><br>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
> of the<br>
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
> aspirations.<br>
><br>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invalu=
able<br>
> and<br>
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
><br>
> Tony<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> Tony Parkin<br>
> Head of ICT Development<br>
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust<br>
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
> 21-24 Millbank<br>
> London SW1P 4QP<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.park=
in@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
> Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
> Skype: parkintony<br>
> MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co=
.uk</a><br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admi=
n@talk.naace.org</a> [secondary-<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] On<b=
r>
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org<=
/a><br>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Hi, Fergus,<br>
><br>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always abou=
t past<br>
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =A0I<br=
>
> did a<br>
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
> were all<br>
> on holiday.<br>
><br>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
> reporting<br>
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
> next<br>
> week.<br>
><br>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
> this<br>
> issue:<br>
><br>
> 1. =A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
> through<br>
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
> 'SmartAssess';<br>
> 2. =A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-=
<br>
> date,<br>
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
> 3. =A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<=
br>
> a good<br>
> e-Portfolio system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
> firstly it<br>
> will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
><br>
> PS: =A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<b=
r>
> degree of<br>
> 'sales pitch'.<br>
><br>
> Best Wishes,<br>
><br>
> Ray Tolley =A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
> ICT Education Consultant<br>
> Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
> P: =A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
> B: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> W: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@=
talk.naace.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
><br>
> Colleagues,<br>
><br>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
> -<br>
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
> appreciated.<br>
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
> receiving that. =A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
><br>
> Fergus Reynolds<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br>Neil Adam<br>Beacon=
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