[Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
Mike Bostock
mike@new-media-learning.org
Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:09:26 -0000
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Crispin and Neil raise some good points here about the relationship between
what is learnt and how we measure it. Chris Gerry was right to point out
that education lags behind many other professional walks of life in the way
that it uses information to support decision making. Our data systems have
historically concentrated on storage and too little on professional
analysis. For a long time it has been a 'data in, same data out' model. I
think that is changing. BETT 2010, for example, will show new developments
from the bigger suppliers - SIMS Discover and Serco Perspective - that mark
a positive trends towards making data work harder.
Neil is correct in pointing out that the outcomes to our business -
well-education young people - are not the same as products in the shop.
Measures of how well schools manage the process are more problematic. But
the range of 'soft skills' that Neil refers to are real enough. The RSA
Opening Minds Framework, for example, goes some way to defining categories
of competence and show how such data can be collected and evaluated.
Our traditional examination system however still regards knowledge-based
learning, rewarded many times over with each GCSE that is passed, as the
high-value route through education, despite the continuing potential
mismatch to the needs of employers. It is easy to gather such data through
simple testing. ICT systems are capable of much more subtlety though. The
abandonment of the first attempts at online testing doesn't mean that we
can't get this right. The mechanical 7/10 reporting that dominates IT
testing doesn't deny the realisation of the potential for a learning
platform to provide continuous diagnostic feedback to teacher and learner.
Online Reporting will provide the momentum for asking questions about the
value of information presented to parents, about how data can be collected
and turned into information, and about how the broader process of learning
can be recorded. We are only at the start of this journey.
ICT and learning have inseparable futures. As a community I think we are in
a good position to promote and apply our collective professional knowledge
to extending the scope of ICT systems for managing, measuring and reporting
learning.
Mike Bostock
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Neil Adam
Sent: 05 January 2010 10:45
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: advisory
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
Crispin
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. That is the problem with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a
subjective element that "learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then there's a
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way,
but which are vital to modern life.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. At
the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes
after all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so
until the much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial
intelligence is delivered.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.
Regards and happy new year to all
Neil
2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> * Progress and attainment
> * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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Beacon ICT
Twitter: @NeilAdam
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Crispin and Neil raise some good points here about the =
relationship
between what is learnt and how we measure it. Chris Gerry was =
right to point
out that education lags behind many other professional walks of life in =
the way
that it uses information to support decision making. Our data =
systems have
historically concentrated on storage and too little on professional =
analysis. For
a long time it has been a ‘data in, same data out’ model. =
I
think that is changing. BETT 2010, for example, will show new =
developments from
the bigger suppliers – SIMS Discover and Serco Perspective – =
that mark
a positive trends towards making data work harder.<br>
<br>
Neil is correct in pointing out that the outcomes to our business =
– well-education
young people – are not the same as products in the shop. Measures =
of how
well schools manage the process are more problematic. But the =
range of ‘soft
skills’ that Neil refers to are real enough. The RSA Opening Minds
Framework, for example, goes some way to defining categories of =
competence
and show how such data can be collected and evaluated. <br>
<br>
Our traditional examination system however still regards =
knowledge-based
learning, rewarded many times over with each GCSE that is passed, as the
high-value route through education, despite the continuing potential =
mismatch
to the needs of employers. It is easy to gather such data through =
simple
testing. ICT systems are capable of much more subtlety though. The =
abandonment
of the first attempts at online testing doesn’t mean that we =
can’t
get this right. The mechanical 7/10 reporting that dominates IT testing =
doesn’t
deny the realisation of the potential for a learning platform to =
provide
continuous diagnostic feedback to teacher and learner.<br>
<br>
Online Reporting will provide the momentum for asking questions about =
the value
of information presented to parents, about how data can be collected and =
turned
into information, and about how the broader process of learning can be =
recorded.
We are only at the start of this journey. <br>
<br>
ICT and learning have inseparable futures. As a community I think =
we are in
a good position to promote and apply our collective professional =
knowledge to extending
the scope of ICT systems for managing, measuring and reporting =
learning. <br>
<br>
Mike Bostock<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Neil Adam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 January 2010 10:45<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b>Cc:</b> advisory<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Crispin<br>
<br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
"articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. =
That
is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data - =
much of
it has a subjective element that "learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot
automatically assess and post into your data capture system. Then =
there's a
whole range of "softer" skills that are even harder to assess =
in that
way, but which are vital to modern life.<br>
<br>
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload =
through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what =
can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is =
creating
more and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it =
becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display =
year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. =
At the
moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are =
going up.
But is that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next =
stage
of education and into work actually more capable (as against
"competent")? I think not.<br>
<br>
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks? or does the VLE-emperor have no =
clothes after
all? I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so =
until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.<br>
<br>
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners =
to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing =
a
data-driven dream.<br>
<br>
Regards and happy new year to all<br>
<br>
Neil<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
><br>
> Some thought for comment;<br>
><br>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
> parents<br>
> I find it interesting that there is very little =
"official"<br>
> information about<br>
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
> reporting<br>
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
> Ed Balls<br>
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
><br>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
> whom and<br>
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
> and I am<br>
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
> this<br>
> change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
><br>
> Colin<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Fergus<br>
><br>
> ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
> journey<br>
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
> Becta<br>
> website.....?<br>
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
> offerings<br>
> measure up against these requirements?<br>
><br>
> "What is online reporting?<br>
><br>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
> access<br>
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
> behaviour<br>
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
><br>
> What do I have to do and when?<br>
><br>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
> available<br>
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
> * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
> * Progress and attainment<br>
> * Special needs<br>
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012."<br>
><br>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
> of the<br>
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
> aspirations.<br>
><br>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
> and<br>
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
><br>
> Tony<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> Tony Parkin<br>
> Head of ICT Development<br>
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust<br>
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
> 21-24 Millbank<br>
> London SW1P 4QP<br>
><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</a><br>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
> Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
> Skype: parkintony<br>
> MSN: <a =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>=
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On<br>
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Hi, Fergus,<br>
><br>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
I<br>
> did a<br>
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
> were all<br>
> on holiday.<br>
><br>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
> reporting<br>
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
> next<br>
> week.<br>
><br>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
> this<br>
> issue:<br>
><br>
> 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
> through<br>
> activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
> 'SmartAssess';<br>
> 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
> date,<br>
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
> 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
> a good<br>
> e-Portfolio system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
> firstly it<br>
> will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
><br>
> PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
> degree of<br>
> 'sales pitch'.<br>
><br>
> Best Wishes,<br>
><br>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
> ICT Education Consultant<br>
> Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
> P: <a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
> B: <a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> W: <a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
><br>
> Colleagues,<br>
><br>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
> -<br>
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
> appreciated.<br>
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
> receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
><br>
> Fergus Reynolds<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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