[Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
BL Mr K Buncle
BL@southbromsgrove.worcs.sch.uk
Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:44:20 +0000
This is a very interesting strand.
It is clear in my mind that data is only useful if it can help teachers to move students learning forward. We do have several stakeholder audiences here. In many cases parents want to know what grade or level their child is either working towards at present or likely achieve, pupils need to know what they need to do to achieve the grades or levels. Teachers, Head of departments, Governors want to be assured that teaching and learning is on track to meet the targets and OFSTED and Local Authorities have similar agendas. I hope that I am not doing anyone a dis-service here. Reporting is complex and requires thought and planning to meet the various needs if you are to avoid constantly entering data in different formats. Very often the students requirements for feedback are masked by the demands of these stakeholders and yet they are the stakeholders that have the most to gain.
Having a competent person in a senior position to oversee the many facets is something that schools have begun to appreciate over the past few years.
As with many schools:
� We have had full electronic registration (including lesson by lesson).
� We have had regular electronic reporting, although we still print them out on paper and post them home.
� A phased training of staff from using the hardware, software and advice on how to write reports.
� A rolling program of updating the technology.
However we also have a dedicated data management team and in house technical support that has taken time to bring together. This is a huge investment.
The investment is however wasted if the data collected is meaningless and unused. The data team spend time analysing the information and provide the different stakeholders with meaningful feedback. If there is no impact in the classroom that helps in moving students learning forward then one should question the value of the process! We are currently looking at what real time reporting will look like in the future.
The discussion here has moved on to look at this idea that parents will see what their child has done during a particular school day. Is this a reality in a majority of schools in all subject areas and all phases? Could it be a reality at Key stage 3 and 4?
We have over 1000 computers accessed by 1300 students and i could not say that this was possible in more than a few subject areas, what is the model that we want for our students in the future.
Keith Buncle
Data Systems Leader
South Bromsgrove Community High School
________________________________________
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2010 20:00
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
John, you bring to mind an anecdote:
Before VLEs or Home Access, a parent would ask their child what they have
done in school today, with the usual response, "Nothing much."
When the VLE was launched, the child rushed home, switched on the computer
and said, "Come and see what I've done in school today!"
Weeks later, when parental access had been introduced, the child came home
to the exclamation from the parent, "Wow, congratulations! I've been looking
on line at your work today, and I'm so proud of you!"
That to me is a significant aspect of what on-line reporting is all about.
Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of John Wasteney
Sent: 05 January 2010 17:42
To: 'Ray Tolley'; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
A very interesting series of posts on the topic of online real time
reporting. Many of the schools I am working with are also engaging in the
same debates as expressed over the last day or two here.
I think that Ray and others are right when they talk about online reporting
as being a new phenomenon. Most headteachers, teachers, education
professionals initially tend to think of online-reporting as simply being a
replacement/substitute for the traditional school report of old. Then of
course the notion of real time enters the thinking and the recognition that
it is impossible to replace the traditional reflective and summative report
issued termly or annually as real time.
The difficulty arises from the word 'report' as this is already well defined
in the mindset. Once we eliminate the notion of we think it means and carry
out the activity that Ray suggest - talk to the parents about what they want
we begin to get a very different picture of real time reporting. Albeit in
limited form the feedback I get from parents us not about APP, tracking of
progress, data related to performance and attainment scores. Yes this
recognised as being useful perhaps a couple of times a year (at a parents
evening and then 6 months later), but the information they want relates much
more to
What are my offspring doing in school today (topics, themes and activities)
Are they actually having a school lunch (secondary)- do they eat their lunch
(primary)
Are they involved in extra curricular activities
Homework tasks
Timetables of activities when sons/daughters might need to take the extra
things they need PE kit, cooking ingredients, etc
An eye into the kind of work they are doing so when they ask what have you
been doing in school today and they get the usual reply - "not a lot", they
can look at some images/current scheme of work/peek at their offspring's
e-portfolio to initiate a conversation.
Many of these are generic things that do not need to be about what each
individual has contributed. The year 4 class teacher who posts up a few
digital images (usually taken by pupils) of the activities on the class blog
is reporting to parents. Things like attendance and behaviour are pertinent
to some but not all parents and certainly many parents feel that existing
systems which text or email parents if a child is absent without
notification are well established in many schools now.
Most parents that I have spoken to (including those who are teachers) are
not interested in the bar charts, histograms, line graphs and pie charts
that demonstrate the points scores from each unit of work. Parents want to
know are offspring happy, engaged in learning, developing emotional and
social confidence. If however a pupil does start to be noticeably
under-performing, their are attitude changes, pupil suddenly becomes
unhappy, disinterested etc that is when a proactive personal contact needs
to be made by the school to the teacher.
This leads me to my next area of concern - parents do know that learning is
not linear and that many factors influence and shape the way an individual
learns, they have good days and bad days, good lessons and not so good
lessons, yet currently we seem to be in a culture which is data focussed and
teachers are pressurised to assess, track and monitor progress to the n'th
degree. At each monitoring pupils must be seen to demonstrate progress. This
has led to a huge dishonesty in the system particularly in secondary schools
with significant numbers of teachers backwardly engineering the starting
point assessment and using a loaded assessment dice to conjure up figures to
keep Mr Ofsted happy.
As stated in another post we do not fatten pigs by weighing them, but the
current regime seems to be saying so you had better weigh them more often! I
have done a lot of work with secondary schools on using APP - which can be
an excellent tool if used wisely. It promotes the idea that we should not
atomise the learning outcomes into smaller chunks, that we should look at
progress over a significant period of time, it recognises that individuals
may be better at some aspects of a subject than others yet we can aggregate
a rounded attainment result yet having identified for us as teachers and
shared with learners areas that need to be developed.
regards,
John
John Wasteney
Managing Director
Strategic Education Consultancy Ltd
Tel: 01455 290960
Mob:07810 446176
-----Original Message-----
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Ray Tolley
Sent: 05 January 2010 12:40
To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
Crispin,
For once I feel that I must disagree with you. Your bar-code illustration
is excellent but the observation that you make, "Most schools have very
little useful performance or competency data in their systems." is a
dangerous argument to make. On-line and real-time reporting is a relatively
new phenomenon. And yet there are fabulous systems out there for tracking
pupils' progress and for that matter the feedback provided by teachers.
Rather than judging the potential of a product by the takeup of a meandering
majority, why not ask those schools which are focussed on exploring
real-time availability of information, whether grades, smiley faces, ad hoc
written comments or even, dare I suggest, e-Portfolios?
Agreed, attendance figures are a somewhat mundane and easy to process data
set, but at least, if parents are being encouraged to access that
information it is a start and should be commended rather than criticised.
Perhaps a little more support of local schools by intelligent parents,
perhaps better communication from schools inviting parents to meet with
staff in order to discuss the whole issue of real-time reporting might be a
better approach?
BW
Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
-----Original Message-----
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Crispin Weston
Sent: 05 January 2010 09:49
To: Colin@revell.org.uk; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> * Progress and attainment
> * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
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