[Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
Ray Tolley
rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk
Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:24:14 -0000
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Hi, All,
In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A. I think that there is no need
to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced view. I have been phoning round
a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all claim to be on the verge of
delivering on-line and real-time reporting. I'm sure that lots of promises
will be made at BETT next week. We need to be talking to these people and
really make constructive and supportive suggestions.
However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a bit simplistic in
terms of number crunching, IS a start. Parents and pupils are both
comfortable with the scenario - and the kids don't see it as spying.
So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different context, let's start
actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than the negative
clouds of gloom and doubt. Surely this, again, is a job for Naace - or
should we look elsewhere? ;-)
BW
Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P: <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B: <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W: <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 14:20
To: Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
Subject: [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious
rant
Hi Ray
No. I agree. at least in so much as John's concept of what parents would
find genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learning
is concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work
available online, 'cause why wouldn't you ? Personally, I like your anecdote
and am happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's
working for them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is
really happening here in education. If the current climate continues to be
allowed to thrive, then the funding and the support will not go towards
supporting the development of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from one
'administrator' to another, because 'all you would have to show for it'
would be an anecdote whilst 'they' would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie
another boring graph.
I think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how easy administration
would be if we were all literally vegetables.
I am under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty
bound to do what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the
online agenda, but the underlying principles that are masked by its
potential development in what i see to be the wrong direction for, not just
ICT in the UK, but potentially the state of the world.
I too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting.
However, I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any water
in 5 years time if we don't rant like lunatics about this now.
I'm starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to
convey what I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily.
I'm trying to understand why a system for generating new levels of
uninteresting information might be sought after, whilst also trying to flag
up something much more important about the state of our nation which online
graphs (and yes that IS what we will probably end up with) will only
consolidate. None of it's important. None of it. My child might be level 1,
he might be level 10. He might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I
would like to know how his life is going, that he and the people around him
genuinely know who he is and that he is going to live in a world where
that's OK.
I'm upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated,
unprofessional or invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not be
used as a benchmark for developing online systems because it's not on a
spreadsheet.
I'm going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never met.
Alistair
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Tolley <mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>
To: advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
Allistair,
I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 45
years at the chalkface.
However, this on-line reporting 'thing' is not about grades or graphs it is
about progress and process. In other words where the learner has come from,
where they are now and where they want to get to.
Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer will
have a better insight of their child's progress through seeing the actual
evidences of work done and progress made? And for that matter not being
suddenly surprised at the Parents' Meeting?
I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the
potential for 'anytime annotation' of a child's progress which could then be
accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)
teachers. This, to me is what 'real-time' reporting is about. No pressure
on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports written
late at night in a stupor of tiredness. But rather a progressive
compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and monitored
documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.
As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting. Let's
all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!
BW
Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P: <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B: <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W: <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Alistair Goodwin
Sent: 06 January 2010 12:24
To: Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
Hi Crispin et al
Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this and
I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy
is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and other's
comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong
development of this also.
I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
time ago on this subject.
The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise
:).
The second is Einstein's:
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted."
(again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here,
but I still like it)
The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
levels is this;
"Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." -
Pure genius.
To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
what goes on where. Job done.
The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the
sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my
meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantly
and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old
school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on
it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or
may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the
pub.
I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen
square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me
to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you
can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about it.
I won't be joining you.
Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the
same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not.
The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised'
that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in
that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in that
exam. What about it?
To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good
my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work
it out.
Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.
Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite
clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.
I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
emotion. God help us.
Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just
go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like
our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to
category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. They
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because people
will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one
even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.
Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is
really not likely to be the source of the problem.
There is only one purpose to life: To live.
Take a deep breath... and begin.
Alistair Goodwin
Hants
N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly happy to share them :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Weston <mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
To: 'advisory' <mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
Hi all,
I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone's comments and
apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.
@Mike. I agree.
@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet - but I think you may have misunderstood
my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickbat.
My point is that I *agree* with Chris Gerry that schools should become more
like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though not, of
course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place some
of the essential prerequisites beforehand.
Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfilled
individuals - but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion that
efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People's happiness increases a little
when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that they
have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. A
student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relevant
to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
being taught things that he either doesn't understand or already knows, just
because the school hasn't bothered accurately to assess and track what that
student's learning needs are.
To respond to Jeff's pithy comment:
"You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!"
I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much and
what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer that
he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you that
you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
extraordinarily primitive.
I have some sympathy with Alistair's comment
"the graphs ? I seriously do not
understand where they fit in"
but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.
So what *is* the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one of
the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivation
for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apart
from *wanting* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student must
have mastered the necessary prerequisites.
So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time - just as a farmer
gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.
We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have
to have systems capable of tracking students' individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.
Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has an
important say in what he/she needs - but this is a question of where the
data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links back
to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the system
is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs - and even more
motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *do* treat
people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in the
system.
@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (either
for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents as a
pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effective
internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, the
requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.
I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so many
other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants
who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone
any good and end up with people saying "real time reporting doesn't work".
It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properly
and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you have a
sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.
Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learning
tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own - which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it
has been such a disaster that it wasn't.
Re. the Moodle video you link to - I completely agree with the point that
this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is being
automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it comes
to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
reporting to parents can become.
@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people in
the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil's performance and competency
which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.
@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. My
responses inline.
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
I don't see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary "bleep" does not represent
particularly high quality data - but other quantitative data like scores and
grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
possible - and make it as easy as possible for them to do so - but teacher
comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One
of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have to
do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
automated wherever possible.
While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
well.
That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data -
much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really useful
and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post into
your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills that
are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life.
So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see this
as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this uncertainty.
I would call any measure of competency a "competency claim", just as a
philosopher might talk about a "truth claim". If you start to see a large
number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student's competency
with some degree of confidence.
Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated for.
Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an *input* and not an
*output* of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on
subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given
some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long division. If
that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been
done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly overridden.
Making interventions based on some kind of business intelligence seems to me
to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to making no
interventions at all. People might say that, in the current environment,
intervention is left to the professional judgement of the teacher - but we
all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happens at all. The swill is
just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to fight for it.
And finally, while some "soft" competencies are very subjective, others are
actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone's French vocab within a
particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty
humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate
teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a
class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow
them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to
offer. This is why Chris Gerry's approach combines business intelligence
with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through
automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more
and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year.
That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that a
paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave us)
is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition as
a "live" thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderation,
discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist,
criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But is
that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
think not.
I don't see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test. The
traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of original
and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering that
I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
along in classrooms. OK - the academic essay is not appropriate to many
students and many types of examination - but I think that a properly
reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests which
do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
learning.
So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
software-assessed learning tasks?
I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily -
others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The fact
that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
(whether you agree with the views or not).
or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will bring
the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system.
I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
delivered.
I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total
AI solution - rather *sufficient* intelligence for any particular task, with
the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. This is
all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in supermarket
terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read too much
Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots without
noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robots are
fantastically useful.
I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners to
learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a
data-driven dream.
I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more
data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
asks the class to do something, doesn't the teacher expect to see what the
students have done, if anything?
One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
(and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging
project) is the fact that so much learning content is "static" and not data
aware - it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
Much of this data does not cross the human's retina - it works in the
background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can't
swim. People "drown in data" not because there is too much data but because
it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want
to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
their child hasn't turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point
about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
itself.
One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces have
become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, make
sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc for
teacher as required.
In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
business.
Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective and
nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right course.
Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows automation),
use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I can't see the
problem.
Ultimately, it doesn't seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers should
benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at the same
time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in the service
that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit some sort
of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management techniques
does not run.
I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
Crispin.
2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasing
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sort
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very little
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
real-time data that schools have.
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay in
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also of
course be able to make sense of that data.
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised by
the government.
Crispin.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
> Some thought for comment;
>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> parents
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> information about
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> reporting
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> Ed Balls
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.
>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> whom and
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> and I am
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> this
> change is coming from the MIS providers?
>
> Colin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Cc: Ray Tolley
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Fergus
>
> ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> journey
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> Becta
> website.....?
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> offerings
> measure up against these requirements?
>
> "What is online reporting?
>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> access
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> behaviour
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.
>
> What do I have to do and when?
>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> available
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> * Progress and attainment
> * Special needs
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> of the
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> aspirations.
>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> and
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
>
> Tony
> --------------------------------------------
> Tony Parkin
> Head of ICT Development
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> 21-24 Millbank
> London SW1P 4QP
>
> Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk
<mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> Mob:+44 07739 436073
> Skype: parkintony
> MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> --------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> admin@talk.naace.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> Schools
>
> Hi, Fergus,
>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. I
> did a
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> were all
> on holiday.
>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> reporting
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> next
> week.
>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> this
> issue:
>
> 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> through
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> 'SmartAssess';
> 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> date,
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> a good
> e-Portfolio system.
>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> firstly it
> will depend on your present VLE provider.
>
> PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> degree of
> 'sales pitch'.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> admin@talk.naace.org]
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> -
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> appreciated.
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year
>
> Fergus Reynolds
> _______________________________________________
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi, All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A. I =
think that
there is no need to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced =
view. I
have been phoning round a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all =
claim
to be on the verge of delivering on-line and real-time reporting. =
I’m
sure that lots of promises will be made at BETT next week. We need =
to be
talking to these people and really make constructive and supportive =
suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a =
bit
simplistic in terms of number crunching, IS a start. Parents and =
pupils
are both comfortable with the scenario – and the kids don’t =
see it
as spying.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different =
context, let’s
start actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than =
the negative
clouds of gloom and doubt. Surely this, again, is a job for Naace =
–
or should we look elsewhere? ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair =
Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 14:20<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; =
secondary@talk.naace.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - =
A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi
Ray</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No.
I agree. at least in so much as John's concept of what parents =
would find
genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learning =
is
concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work =
available
online, 'cause why wouldn't you ? Personally, I like your anecdote =
and am
happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's =
working for
them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is really =
happening
here in education. If the current climate continues to be allowed to =
thrive,
then the funding and the support will not go towards supporting the =
development
of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from one 'administrator' to =
another,
because 'all you would have to show for it' would be an anecdote whilst =
'they'
would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie another boring =
graph.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how =
easy administration
would be if we were all literally vegetables.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am
under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty bound =
to do
what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the online =
agenda,
but the underlying principles that are masked by its potential =
development in
what i see to be the wrong direction for, not just ICT in the UK, but
potentially the state of the world.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting. =
However,
I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any water in 5 =
years
time if we don't rant like lunatics about this =
now.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to =
convey what
I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily. I'm trying =
to
understand why a system for generating new levels of uninteresting =
information
might be sought after, whilst also trying to flag up something much more
important about the state of our nation which online graphs (and yes =
that IS
what we will probably end up with) will only consolidate. None of it's
important. None of it. My child might be level 1, he might be level 10. =
He
might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I would like to know how =
his
life is going, that he and the people around him genuinely know who he
is and that he is going to live in a world where that's =
OK.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated, =
unprofessional or
invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not be used as a =
benchmark
for developing online systems because it's not on a =
spreadsheet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm
going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never =
met.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alistair</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk"
title=3D"rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">Ray Tolley</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Wednesday, =
January
06, 2010 1:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Allistair,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I like your style and appreciate where you are coming =
from after
my own 45 years at the chalkface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However, this on-line reporting ‘thing’ is =
not about
grades or graphs it is about progress and process. In other words =
where
the learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child’s progress =
through
seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? And =
for that
matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents’ =
Meeting?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and =
could well
see the potential for ‘anytime annotation’ of a =
child’s
progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at any point =
in time
by (at that time) teachers. This, to me is what =
‘real-time’
reporting is about. No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of =
tiredness.
But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback along with =
the
automated and monitored documentation of collaborative self-assessments =
as and
when completed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As others have said, we are at the brink of something =
very
exciting. Let’s all pull together in (approximately) the =
same
direction!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>BW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org
[mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair =
Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious =
rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi
Crispin et al</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Apologies
for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your =
recent
email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate that. =
My
comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a really useful
starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comments on =
what is
useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong development
of this also.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long =
time
ago on this subject.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise =
:).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
second is Einstein's:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Not
everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts =
can be
counted."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(again,
apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I =
still
like it)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum =
levels is
this;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"Pick
a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." =
- Pure
genius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the =
same
pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what =
goes
on where. Job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing =
something with
someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm saying =
/
listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits =
I and
they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it =
down. I
just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the =
person
in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meaning. I can =
still
make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and impercievably. =
If a
pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I make =
damn
sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it but =
that they still
appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this =
down.
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time. =
I
certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the =
pub.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care =
about
where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in =
mainstream
settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen square.
Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to =
develop
into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do =
this
better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about =
it. I
won't be joining you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Furthermore,
when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time =
as
everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The =
grade I got
was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I wrote on the =
paper at
the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised' that grade could =
have
got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in that exam relates =
to
little other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What about =
it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the =
lesson
like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't =
clearly the
'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good my =
judgement
is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it =
out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Draw
a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Just
to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils =
on free
school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're an =
idiot. The
divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly, but only =
when
I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of =
line
and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, =
less
emotion. God help us.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Isn't
it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go =
back to
administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our =
lives
aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category?
Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. =
They
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc =
Hopefully,
the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum =
review
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get =
a
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and =
that
life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this =
week
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to =
their REAL neighbours
anymore. Wake up. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Something
is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is =
really not
likely to be the source of the problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>There
is only one purpose to life: To live.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Take
a deep breath... and begin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Alistair
Goodwin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hants</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>N.B.
The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly happy to share them :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"
title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">Crispin Weston</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org">'advisory'</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, =
January 05,
2010 6:57 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: =
[Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to
everyone’s comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly =
long
essay in response.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Mike. I agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Alistair: thanks for the bouquet – but I think you =
may have
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose =
into a
brickbat. My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with Chris Gerry that =
schools
should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business =
intelligence
(though not, of course, in terms of the service they offer). My =
criticism of
real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put =
in place
some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being =
happy,
fulfilled individuals – but I am suspicious of what I take to be a
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People’s =
happiness
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient =
and
appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco =
and
find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am
(moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which =
ensure that
it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching =
which is
relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for =
years on
end being taught things that he either doesn’t understand or =
already
knows, just because the school hasn’t bothered accurately to =
assess and
track what that student’s learning needs =
are.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>To respond to Jeff’s pithy =
comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>“</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>You
can't fatten a pig by weighing it!”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you =
establish how
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig =
farmer
that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell =
you
that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business =
is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The =
systems
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally =
extraordinarily
primitive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I have some sympathy with Alistair’s comment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>“</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>the
graphs ? I seriously do not <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>understand
where they fit in”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being
collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined =
up.
There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making =
pretty
graphs. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>So what *<b>is</b>* the point of collecting the data? It =
seems to
me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting =
aside
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my =
experience
as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn =
something. Apart
from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the =
student
must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>So the key requirement for an efficient education system is
managing progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that =
the
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time – =
just as
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right =
bit of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for =
the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial =
task.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which =
people
are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being =
driven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we =
have to
have systems capable of tracking students’ individual =
capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its =
value so
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in =
education.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike =
the
pig) has an important say in what he/she needs – but this is a =
question
of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track =
it. This
links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated =
if the
system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs – and =
even
more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual =
wants. The
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they =
*<b>do</b>*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them =
in the
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out =
there
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio =
</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span><span=
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> =
but
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity =
into
these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of =
parents
as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing
effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a
relatively recent government target does not undermine the fact that,
internally, the requirement for business intelligence has been =
long-standing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger =
(as with
so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what =
some
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil =
servants who
are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone =
any
good and end up with people saying “real time reporting =
doesn’t
work”. It is very important to manage the introduction of these =
projects
properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring =
that you
have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting =
component.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, =
e-portfolio,
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own – which is =
why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why =
it has
been such a disaster that it wasn’t. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Re. the Moodle video you link to – I completely agree =
with
the point that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the =
data
which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online =
assignments.
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to =
sit down
in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected =
automatically
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of =
data being
collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online =
reporting to
parents can become. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the =
right
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I =
agree with
your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is =
what you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other =
types of
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil’s performance and
competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely =
unaware of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>@Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your
conclusion. My responses inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
"articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. =
<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I don’t see why not. =
Has
Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an =
understanding of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Of course I exaggerate a =
bit and a
binary “bleep” does not represent particularly high quality =
data
– but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all =
useful. You
will get teachers to input comments wherever possible – and make =
it as
easy as possible for them to do so – but teacher comments are (a)
expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big =
gains for
businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot =
of the
data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original =
point:
data entry is the killer and should be automated wherever =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>While I agree that the =
definition
of some teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying =
decisions
of many shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can =
nevertheless,
when analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths =
models
probability really quite well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>That is the problem =
with
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a =
subjective
element that "learning<span style=3D'color:navy'> </span>software =
(really
useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically =
assess and
post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of
"softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, =
but which
are vital to modern life.<span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>So, following from above, I =
agree
about the subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the =
system
recognises the fact of this uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I would call any measure of
competency a “competency claim”, just as a philosopher might =
talk
about a “truth claim”. If you start to see a large number of
competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree of
consistency, you can start to talk about that student’s competency =
with
some degree of confidence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Competency claims will very =
often
be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student =
e-portfolio)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by =
comments. So
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Also, I am proposing the
measurement of competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an =
*<b>output</b>* of
the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on =
subtraction are
not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra =
teaching
before the introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception =
is
misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the =
decision to
make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions =
based on
some kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if =
the
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People =
might
say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the =
professional
judgement of the teacher – but we all know that, 90% of the time, =
hardly
anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and =
the pigs
are left to fight for it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>And finally, while some
“soft” competencies are very subjective, others are actually =
pretty
straightforward. How good is someone’s French vocab within a =
particular
domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to =
measure
with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual =
skills,
there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive
efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who =
represents
a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a class of students =
who have
not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the =
particular
thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris
Gerry’s approach combines business intelligence with flexible =
grouping
and staffing systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The Government =
(quite
reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but =
there
comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be reasonably"
automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more
problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder =
and
harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of =
course
begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think I agree with what =
you are
saying here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text =
(which
is what criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a =
competency.
Everyone understands the paragraph differently, which has given =
governments the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would =
see a
competency definition as a “live” thing, which lived through =
a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what =
good
teachers do anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>At the moment people =
are
(because the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) =
teaching to
the test and "standards" are going up. But is that actually =
educating
children better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into =
work actually
more capable (as against "competent")? I think not.<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I don’t see any =
problem with
teaching to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic =
essay, well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do =
not
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising =
for my
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK – =
the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of
examination – but I think that a properly reconstituted =
examination system
should be able to come up with tests which do not reward mechanistic =
teaching
or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>So, are we chasing =
our tails by
thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? <span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think there is a bit of a =
false
dichotomy here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can =
be
computer assessed very easily – others cannot. But in the latter =
case,
the job of the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by
appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the =
computer
does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or =
not).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>or does the =
VLE-emperor have no
clothes after all? <span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I think in many respects =
the
VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But =
that
leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will see being =
occupied by
more capable systems which will bring the long delayed digital =
revolution to
schools. Any good software system requires some kind of =
infrastructure-content set
up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits
(plural) of the system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I tend to believe it =
is rather
naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but
yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I do not think that there =
will
ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution – rather =
*<b>sufficient</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence =
always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not =
replacing,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store =
manager.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the =
time and
that the robots are fantastically useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I believe we should =
be doing
more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to teachers to =
help
them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven dream.<span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I do not think that
resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are separable. =
To
take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It
simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every time it =
launches
it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation file. When I =
am half
way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). And in a =
formal
teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, =
doesn’t
the teacher expect to see what the students have done, if =
anything?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>One of the major problems =
with
learning resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to =
address
through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so =
much
learning content is “static” and not data aware – it =
does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Much of this data does not =
cross
the human’s retina – it works in the background. People =
drown not
because the sea is big but because they can’t swim. People =
“drown
in data” not because there is too much data but because it is not
understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong =
sort or
in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see =
attendance
records but they do like to receive a text message when their child
hasn’t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about =
the
presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in =
itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>One of the characteristics =
of
modern technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler =
to use.
Good software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present =
to the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute =
parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as =
required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>In summary, my position is =
that
data is the life-blood of any modern business and education is a very =
large,
very complex, very expensive business. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Some data is very =
straightforward
and objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems =
which run
the right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can =
(because
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can’t see the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Ultimately, it =
doesn’t seem
to me to be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the =
efficiency
gains offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to =
offering
the same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible =
for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the =
writ
of modern business management techniques does not =
run.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I guess that should be =
accompanied
by sounds of more stirring!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk">crispin.weston@alphale=
arning.co.uk</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>It has always struck me that the real-time =
reporting agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting =
on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out =
that<br>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' =
purchasing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a =
sort<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very =
little<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a =
big<br>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only =
useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - =
and<br>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets =
lay in<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when =
learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report =
student<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must =
also of<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, =
most<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up =
the<br>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been =
promised by<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
><br>
> Some thought for comment;<br>
><br>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access =
to<br>
> parents<br>
> I find it interesting that there is very little =
"official"<br>
> information about<br>
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real =
time<br>
> reporting<br>
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter =
that<br>
> Ed Balls<br>
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
><br>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, =
by<br>
> whom and<br>
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than =
substance<br>
> and I am<br>
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum =
for<br>
> this<br>
> change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
><br>
> Colin<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-">secondary-</a><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Fergus<br>
><br>
> ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring =
this<br>
> journey<br>
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on =
the<br>
> Becta<br>
> website.....?<br>
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
> offerings<br>
> measure up against these requirements?<br>
><br>
> "What is online reporting?<br>
><br>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive =
and<br>
> access<br>
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance =
and<br>
> behaviour<br>
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
><br>
> What do I have to do and when?<br>
><br>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following =
information<br>
> available<br>
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
> * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and =
challenging)<br>
> * Progress and attainment<br>
> * Special needs<br>
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September =
2012."<br>
><br>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in =
some<br>
> of the<br>
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting =
these<br>
> aspirations.<br>
><br>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly =
invaluable<br>
> and<br>
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the =
specification?<br>
><br>
> Tony<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> Tony Parkin<br>
> Head of ICT Development<br>
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust<br>
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
> 21-24 Millbank<br>
> London SW1P 4QP<br>
><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk">Email:tony.parkin@ssa=
trust.org.uk</a><br>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
> Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
> Skype: parkintony<br>
> MSN: <a =
href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk">a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>=
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org">secondary-admin@talk.naace=
.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>] =
On<br>
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a =
href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a
href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>=
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Hi, Fergus,<br>
><br>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about =
past<br>
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =
I<br>
> did a<br>
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately =
they<br>
> were all<br>
> on holiday.<br>
><br>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and =
will<br>
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see =
on-line<br>
> reporting<br>
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - =
probably<br>
> next<br>
> week.<br>
><br>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects =
to<br>
> this<br>
> issue:<br>
><br>
> 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of =
progress<br>
> through<br>
> activities completed using some form of assessment software =
like<br>
> 'SmartAssess';<br>
> 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably =
up-to-<br>
> date,<br>
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
> 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available =
through<br>
> a good<br>
> e-Portfolio system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - =
but<br>
> firstly it<br>
> will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
><br>
> PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by =
some<br>
> degree of<br>
> 'sales pitch'.<br>
><br>
> Best Wishes,<br>
><br>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
> ICT Education Consultant<br>
> Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
> P: <a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"
target=3D"_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
> B: <a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> W: <a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org">advisory-admin@talk.naace.o=
rg</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-">advisory-</a><br>
> <a =
href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org">admin@talk.naace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
> To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org">advisory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
><br>
> Colleagues,<br>
><br>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing =
online<br>
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of =
good<br>
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools =
that<br>
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this =
area<br>
> -<br>
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, =
etc<br>
> appreciated.<br>
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. =
I<br>
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested =
in<br>
> receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
><br>
> Fergus Reynolds<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
<br clear=3Dall>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Neil Adam<br>
Beacon ICT<br>
Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.beaconict.co.uk">www.beaconict.co.uk</a> <br>
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</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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