[Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant
J Meades
meades@gmail.com
Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:49:24 +0000
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Totally agree Ray. This is an opportunity to shape Parental Engagement and =
a
fantastic opportunity to engage parents in the secondary education of their
children.
NAACE Members can help bring about a dialogue and shape the future.
Brilliant!
Jeremy
2010/1/8 Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>
> Hi, All,
>
>
>
> In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A. I think that there is no
> need to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced view. I have been phonin=
g
> round a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all claim to be on the
> verge of delivering on-line and real-time reporting. I=92m sure that lot=
s of
> promises will be made at BETT next week. We need to be talking to these
> people and really make constructive and supportive suggestions.
>
>
>
> However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a bit simplistic =
in
> terms of number crunching, IS a start. Parents and pupils are both
> comfortable with the scenario =96 and the kids don=92t see it as spying.
>
>
>
> So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different context, let=92s star=
t
> actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than the negat=
ive
> clouds of gloom and doubt. Surely this, again, is a job for Naace =96 or
> should we look elsewhere? ;-)
>
>
>
> BW
>
>
>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
>
> *From:* secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> secondary-admin@talk.naace.org] *On Behalf Of *Alistair Goodwin
> *Sent:* 06 January 2010 14:20
> *To:* Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> *Subject:* [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
> serious rant
>
>
>
> Hi Ray
>
>
>
> No. I agree. at least in so much as John's concept of what parents would
> find genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learn=
ing
> is concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work
> available online, 'cause why wouldn't you ? Personally, I like your anecd=
ote
> and am happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's
> working for them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is
> really happening here in education. If the current climate continues to b=
e
> allowed to thrive, then the funding and the support will not go towards
> supporting the development of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from =
one
> 'administrator' to another, because 'all you would have to show for it'
> would be an anecdote whilst 'they' would be able to show 'real' benefits,=
ie
> another boring graph.
>
>
>
> I think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
> supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how easy administration
> would be if we were all literally vegetables.
>
>
>
> I am under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty
> bound to do what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the
> online agenda, but the underlying principles that are masked by its
> potential development in what i see to be the wrong direction for, not ju=
st
> ICT in the UK, but potentially the state of the world.
>
>
>
> I too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting.
> However, I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any wate=
r
> in 5 years time if we don't rant like lunatics about this now.
>
>
>
> I'm starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to
> convey what I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily.
> I'm trying to understand why a system for generating new levels of
> uninteresting information might be sought after, whilst also trying to fl=
ag
> up something much more important about the state of our nation which onli=
ne
> graphs (and yes that IS what we will probably end up with) will only
> consolidate. None of it's important. None of it. My child might be level =
1,
> he might be level 10. He might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. =
I
> would like to know how his life is going, that he and the people around h=
im
> genuinely know who he is and that he is going to live in a world where
> that's OK.
>
>
>
> I'm upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated,
> unprofessional or invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not =
be
> used as a benchmark for developing online systems because it's not on a
> spreadsheet.
>
>
>
> I'm going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never met.
>
>
>
> Alistair
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Ray Tolley <rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk>
>
> *To:* advisory@talk.naace.org ; secondary@talk.naace.org
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:19 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
>
>
>
> Allistair,
>
>
>
> I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after my own 4=
5
> years at the chalkface.
>
>
>
> However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about grades or graphs=
it is
> about progress and process. In other words where the learner has come fr=
om,
> where they are now and where they want to get to.
>
>
>
> Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the parent/carer wil=
l
> have a better insight of their child=92s progress through seeing the actu=
al
> evidences of work done and progress made? And for that matter not being
> suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?
>
>
>
> I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well see the
> potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s progress which coul=
d then be
> accessed as near as anything at any point in time by (at that time)
> teachers. This, to me is what =91real-time=92 reporting is about. No pr=
essure
> on the teacher to meet the massive deadlines of end-of-term reports writt=
en
> late at night in a stupor of tiredness. But rather a progressive
> compilation of formative feedback along with the automated and monitored
> documentation of collaborative self-assessments as and when completed.
>
>
>
> As others have said, we are at the brink of something very exciting. Let=
=92s
> all pull together in (approximately) the same direction!
>
>
>
> BW
>
>
>
> Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> ICT Education Consultant
> Maximise ICT Ltd
> P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
>
> B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
>
>
>
> *From:* advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:
> advisory-admin@talk.naace.org] *On Behalf Of *Alistair Goodwin
> *Sent:* 06 January 2010 12:24
> *To:* Crispin Weston; 'advisory'
> *Subject:* [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
>
>
>
> Hi Crispin et al
>
>
>
> Apologies for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my
> footnote). Your recent email certainly outlines where you stand on this a=
nd
> I appreciate that. My comments still stand though. The supermarket analog=
y
> is a really useful starting point for discussing this and John's and othe=
r's
> comments on what is useful / probably most desirable to parents is a stro=
ng
> development of this also.
>
>
>
> I have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long
> time ago on this subject.
>
>
>
> The first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or
> otherwise :).
>
>
>
> The second is Einstein's:
>
> "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that count=
s
> can be counted."
>
> (again, apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here,
> but I still like it)
>
>
>
> The piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum
> levels is this;
>
> "Pick a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out." =
-
> Pure genius.
>
>
>
> To me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the
> same pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of
> what goes on where. Job done.
>
>
>
> The rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start discussing something
> with someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm
> saying / listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human
> traits I and they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't
> write it down. I just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate t=
he
> sense of the person in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking'=
my
> meaning. I can still make the same point. We almost all do this constantl=
y
> and impercievably. If a pupil in the class has 'done this already at my o=
ld
> school, sir' I make damn sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective=
on
> it but that they still appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may=
or
> may not write this down. Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or
> the pupil at the time. I certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at =
the
> pub.
>
>
>
> I believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care
> about where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in
> mainstream settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananm=
en
> square. Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed=
me
> to develop into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think y=
ou
> can do this better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy about
> it. I won't be joining you.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely th=
e
> same time as everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or n=
ot.
> The grade I got was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I
> wrote on the paper at the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalise=
d'
> that grade could have got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade i=
n
> that exam relates to little other than my ability to get that grade in th=
at
> exam. What about it?
>
>
>
> To me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the
> lesson like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn't
> clearly the 'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how go=
od
> my judgement is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon wo=
rk
> it out.
>
>
>
> Draw a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to m=
e
> whatsoever. I never look at them.
>
>
>
> Just to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all
> pupils on free school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out,
> you're an idiot. The divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quit=
e
> clearly, but only when I'm not staring at this damn laptop.
>
>
>
> I am confident that my views here will be seen by some as out of line and
> unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs, less
> emotion. God help us.
>
>
>
> Isn't it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff jus=
t
> go back to administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel li=
ke
> our lives aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according=
to
> category? Who put them in charge ? That's NEVER going to work. Natural
> administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. T=
hey
> will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
> invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc
> Hopefully, the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary
> Curriculum review will force these people out of the picture because peop=
le
> will again get a chance to see that there is potentially more to life on
> planet earth and that life is just too short to get hung up on how much
> progress you made this week compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No =
one
> even talks to their REAL neighbours anymore. Wake up.
>
>
>
> Something is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades
> is really not likely to be the source of the problem.
>
>
>
> There is only one purpose to life: To live.
>
> Take a deep breath... and begin.
>
>
>
>
>
> Alistair Goodwin
>
> Hants
>
> N.B. The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I a=
m
> perfectly happy to share them :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> *To:* 'advisory' <advisory@talk.naace.org>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:57 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I seem to have stirred something up here. Thanks to everyone=92s comments=
and
> apologies in advance for a correspondingly long essay in response.
>
>
>
> @Mike. I agree.
>
>
>
> @Alistair: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have misunderst=
ood
> my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose into a brickba=
t.
> My point is that I **agree** with Chris Gerry that schools should become
> more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligence (though no=
t,
> of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism of real time
> reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in place som=
e
> of the essential prerequisites beforehand.
>
>
>
> Of course I also agree with the stuff about children being happy, fulfill=
ed
> individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a suggestion tha=
t
> efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness increases a li=
ttle
> when they receive a public service which is efficient and appropriate to
> their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and find that th=
ey
> have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am (moderately)
> grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure that it is. =
A
> student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which is relev=
ant
> to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years on end
> being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already knows,=
just
> because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess and track what =
that
> student=92s learning needs are.
>
>
>
> To respond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:
>
>
>
> =93You can't fatten a pig by weighing it!=94
>
>
>
> I agree that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how much a=
nd
> what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig farmer tha=
t
> he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you th=
at
> you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
> completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The
> systems that we have in place for doing this in education are generally
> extraordinarily primitive.
>
>
>
> I have some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment
>
>
>
> =93the graphs ? I seriously do not
>
> understand where they fit in=94
>
>
>
> but the problem here is not the fact that the data is being collected but
> that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up. There is no
> benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty graphs.
>
>
>
> So what **is** the point of collecting the data? It seems to me that one
> of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting aside motivat=
ion
> for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experience as a
> teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. Apar=
t
> from **wanting** to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the student
> must have mastered the necessary prerequisites.
>
>
>
> So the key requirement for an efficient education system is managing
> progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that the right
> student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as a fa=
rmer
> gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bit of
> fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
> classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.
>
>
>
> We start from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people are
> driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being drive=
n
> over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we ha=
ve
> to have systems capable of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. =
This
> type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value=
so
> widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
> discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.
>
>
>
> Of course, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the pig) has =
an
> important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question of where th=
e
> data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. This links b=
ack
> to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if the syste=
m
> is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 and even more
> motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. The
> whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they **do**
> treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them =
in
> the system.
>
>
>
> @Ray: I am not criticising the software systems that are out there (eithe=
r
> for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio J but rather the
> difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity into these
> systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of parents a=
s a
> pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing effecti=
ve
> internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a relatively
> recent government target does not undermine the fact that, internally, th=
e
> requirement for business intelligence has been long-standing.
>
>
>
> I support the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with so ma=
ny
> other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what some
> Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servan=
ts
> who are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyo=
ne
> any good and end up with people saying =93real time reporting doesn=92t w=
ork=94.
> It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects properl=
y
> and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that you hav=
e a
> sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.
>
>
>
> Hardly any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio, learnin=
g
> tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is why
> interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why i=
t
> has been such a disaster that it wasn=92t.
>
>
>
> Re. the Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with the point th=
at
> this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data which is bei=
ng
> automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments. When it come=
s
> to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit down in the
> evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatically
> (and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data
> being collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online
> reporting to parents can become.
>
>
>
> @John. I agree that you need to show the right data to the right people i=
n
> the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree with your
> analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what yo=
u
> show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types=
of
> data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
> processed form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and compete=
ncy
> which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware of.
>
>
>
> @Neil: I agree with many of your concerns but not with your conclusion. M=
y
> responses inline.
>
>
> All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not "articles"
> that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system.
>
> I don=92t see why not. Has Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work
> demonstrating an understanding of Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep!
>
> Of course I exaggerate a bit and a binary =93bleep=94 does not represent
> particularly high quality data =96 but other quantitative data like score=
s and
> grades are all useful. You will get teachers to input comments wherever
> possible =96 and make it as easy as possible for them to do so =96 but te=
acher
> comments are (a) expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. O=
ne
> of the big gains for businesses in using the internet is in getting the
> customer to do a lot of the data entry that clerical staff used to have t=
o
> do. Which is my original point: data entry is the killer and should be
> automated wherever possible.
>
> While I agree that the definition of some teaching aims and outcomes are
> subjective, so are the buying decisions of many shoppers. But complex,
> subjective buying decisions can nevertheless, when analysed, demonstrate
> surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models probability really quite
> well.
>
> That is the problem with software and (even) performance/competency data =
-
> much of it has a subjective element that "learning software (really usefu=
l
> and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess and post in=
to
> your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of "softer" skills t=
hat
> are even harder to assess in that way, but which are vital to modern life=
.
>
> So, following from above, I agree about the subjectivity but do not see
> this as a problem so long as the system recognises the fact of this
> uncertainty.
>
> I would call any measure of competency a =93competency claim=94, just as =
a
> philosopher might talk about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to see a l=
arge
> number of competency claims from different sources showing a significant
> degree of consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s compe=
tency
> with some degree of confidence.
>
> Competency claims will very often be accompanied by the evidence (e.g.
> student output on a student e-portfolio) which supports the claim.
> Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. So the subjective element
> can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions moderated. The subjective
> tendencies of particular assessors can also be tracked and compensated fo=
r.
>
> Also, I am proposing the measurement of competency as an **input** and no=
t
> an **output** of the system. A group of students who are perceived to be
> weak on subtraction are not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they
> are given some extra teaching before the introduction of a unit on long
> division. If that perception is misjudged in a few cases, no very great h=
arm
> has been done and the decision to make that intervention can be quickly
> overridden. Making interventions based on some kind of business intellige=
nce
> seems to me to be preferable, even if the intelligence is not perfect, to
> making no interventions at all. People might say that, in the current
> environment, intervention is left to the professional judgement of the
> teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly anything happen=
s at
> all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and the pigs are left to
> fight for it.
>
> And finally, while some =93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, othe=
rs are
> actually pretty straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab wit=
hin a
> particular domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered
> activity to measure with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of
> advanced conceptual skills, there is quite a lot of learning which is pre=
tty
> humdrum. One massive efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled gradu=
ate
> teacher (who represents a valuable resource) should not be put in front o=
f a
> class of students who have not acquired the basic knowledge which will al=
low
> them to access the particular thing that the skilled graduate teacher has=
to
> offer. This is why Chris Gerry=92s approach combines business intelligenc=
e
> with flexible grouping and staffing systems.
>
> The Government (quite reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload throug=
h
> automation, but there comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be
> reasonably" automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating mo=
re
> and more problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes
> harder and harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-yea=
r.
> That of course begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate.
>
> I think I agree with what you are saying here. I have never thought that =
a
> paragraph of bureaucratic text (which is what criterion referencing gave =
us)
> is sufficient to define a competency. Everyone understands the paragraph
> differently, which has given governments the opportunity to manipulate
> results data for their own purposes. I would see a competency definition =
as
> a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a continuous process of moderatio=
n,
> discussion and revision. Which what good teachers do anyway.
>
> At the moment people are (because the current system is more reductionist=
,
> criterion-based) teaching to the test and "standards" are going up. But i=
s
> that actually educating children better? Do they get to the next stage of
> education and into work actually more capable (as against "competent")? I
> think not.
>
> I don=92t see any problem with teaching to the test if it is a good test.=
The
> traditional academic essay, well examined, provided a real test of origin=
al
> and creative thought and I do not think that I am alone in remembering th=
at
> I learnt more when revising for my major exams than in years of cruising
> along in classrooms. OK =96 the academic essay is not appropriate to many
> students and many types of examination =96 but I think that a properly
> reconstituted examination system should be able to come up with tests whi=
ch
> do not reward mechanistic teaching or merely the regurgitation of rote
> learning.
>
> So, are we chasing our tails by thinking we really can produce
> software-assessed learning tasks?
>
> I think there is a bit of a false dichotomy here between computer and
> teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be computer assessed very easily =96
> others cannot. But in the latter case, the job of the teacher can be made
> very much easier by being assisted by appropriate computer systems. The f=
act
> that I am writing this on the computer does not dehumanize my thoughts,
> (whether you agree with the views or not).
>
> or does the VLE-emperor have no clothes after all?
>
> I think in many respects the VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a
> pretty skimpy dresser. But that leaves a vacant imperial throne which I
> think you will see being occupied by more capable systems which will brin=
g
> the long delayed digital revolution to schools. Any good software system
> requires some kind of infrastructure-content set up. What sits in the
> vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits (plural) of the system=
.
>
> I tend to believe it is rather naked and is going to remain so until the
> much vaunted but yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is
> delivered.
>
> I do not think that there will ever be a magical (and rather spooky) tota=
l
> AI solution =96 rather **sufficient** intelligence for any particular tas=
k,
> with the ultimate intelligence always coming back to the human teacher. T=
his
> is all about supporting, not replacing, the human teacher who (in
> supermarket terms) will always be the store manager. People who have read
> too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about dehumanising robots
> without noticing that they are using them all the time and that the robot=
s
> are fantastically useful.
>
> I believe we should be doing more to get resources and tools to learners =
to
> learn and to teachers to help them teach, but not get so hung up chasing =
a
> data-driven dream.
>
> I do not think that resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the
> other are separable. To take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces
> documents (i.e. data). It simplifies the task by saving style sheets (mor=
e
> data). Every time it launches it reads my preferences (more data) from an
> initialisation file. When I am half way through writing a document, I can
> save state (data again). And in a formal teaching context, when a teacher
> asks the class to do something, doesn=92t the teacher expect to see what =
the
> students have done, if anything?
>
> One of the major problems with learning resources and tools at the moment
> (and which we are trying to address through the BECTA/ISB Content Packagi=
ng
> project) is the fact that so much learning content is =93static=94 and no=
t data
> aware =96 it does not contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.
>
> Much of this data does not cross the human=92s retina =96 it works in the
> background. People drown not because the sea is big but because they can=
=92t
> swim. People =93drown in data=94 not because there is too much data but b=
ecause
> it is not understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the
> wrong sort or in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not wa=
nt
> to see attendance records but they do like to receive a text message when
> their child hasn=92t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a poin=
t
> about the presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in
> itself.
>
> One of the characteristics of modern technology is how user interfaces ha=
ve
> become very much simpler to use. Good software will collect the data, mak=
e
> sense of the data, and present to the teacher only what the teacher finds
> useful. Substitute parent/student/head teacher/special needs adviser etc =
for
> teacher as required.
>
> In summary, my position is that data is the life-blood of any modern
> business and education is a very large, very complex, very expensive
> business.
>
> Some data is very straightforward and objective. Some is more subjective
> and nuanced. So create systems which run the right horse on the right
> course. Codify and measure where you can (because codification allows
> automation), use free text where you need nuance and interpretation. I ca=
n=92t
> see the problem.
>
> Ultimately, it doesn=92t seem to me to be very reasonable that teachers
> should benefit from the efficiency gains offered by other services and at
> the same time, when it comes to offering the same level of efficiency in =
the
> service that they are responsible for providing, claim that they inhabit
> some sort of Arcadian grove where the writ of modern business management
> techniques does not run.
>
> I guess that should be accompanied by sounds of more stirring!
>
> Crispin.
>
>
>
> 2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk>
>
> It has always struck me that the real-time reporting agenda has a massive
> missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?
> I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an
> excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that
> while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purchasi=
ng
> preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a
> sort
> of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very
> little
> useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big
> emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful
> real-time data that schools have.
> The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and
> manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay
> in
> the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning
> software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report stude=
nt
> performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also
> of
> course be able to make sense of that data.
> I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, mo=
st
> of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the
> fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised
> by
> the government.
> Crispin.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On Behalf Of Colin J Revell
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools
> >
> > Some thought for comment;
> >
> > Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to
> > parents
> > I find it interesting that there is very little "official"
> > information about
> > this that I have come across. If you search online for real time
> > reporting
> > to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that
> > Ed Balls
> > released at BETT in Jan 2008.
> >
> > Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by
> > whom and
> > by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance
> > and I am
> > wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for
> > this
> > change is coming from the MIS providers?
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Tony Parkin
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Cc: Ray Tolley
> > Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Fergus
> >
> > ... and it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this
> > journey
> > of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on the
> > Becta
> > website.....?
> > Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their
> > offerings
> > measure up against these requirements?
> >
> > "What is online reporting?
> >
> > Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and
> > access
> > information about their children's work, progress, attendance and
> > behaviour
> > when and where they want, using secure, online access.
> >
> > What do I have to do and when?
> >
> > Secondary schools are expected to make the following information
> > available
> > to parents through secure online access by September 2010:
> > * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)
> > * Progress and attainment
> > * Special needs
> > All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012."
> >
> > It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some
> > of the
> > solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these
> > aspirations.
> >
> > Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invaluable
> > and
> > undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?
> >
> > Tony
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Tony Parkin
> > Head of ICT Development
> > Specialist Schools & Academies Trust
> > 17th Floor, Millbank Tower
> > 21-24 Millbank
> > London SW1P 4QP
> >
> > Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk <Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk>
> > Tel: +44 20 7802 2306
> > Mob:+44 07739 436073
> > Skype: parkintony
> > MSN: a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk
> > --------------------------------------------
> > ________________________________________
> > From: secondary-admin@talk.naace.org [secondary-
> > admin@talk.naace.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ray Tolley [rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk]
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org; secondary@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary
> > Schools
> >
> > Hi, Fergus,
> >
> > I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always about past
> > experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. I
> > did a
> > quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they
> > were all
> > on holiday.
> >
> > I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will
> > 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-line
> > reporting
> > moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably
> > next
> > week.
> >
> > Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to
> > this
> > issue:
> >
> > 1. The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress
> > through
> > activities completed using some form of assessment software like
> > 'SmartAssess';
> > 2. The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-
> > date,
> > such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;
> > 3. The formative and possibly informal reporting available through
> > a good
> > e-Portfolio system.
> >
> > I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but
> > firstly it
> > will depend on your present VLE provider.
> >
> > PS: BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some
> > degree of
> > 'sales pitch'.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
> > ICT Education Consultant
> > Maximise ICT Ltd
> > P: http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
> > B: http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
> > W: http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
> > Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-
> > admin@talk.naace.org]
> > On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds
> > Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18
> > To: advisory@talk.naace.org
> > Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools
> >
> > Colleagues,
> >
> > Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online
> > reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good
> > practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid
> > pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that
> > colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area
> > -
> > especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc
> > appreciated.
> > I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I
> > would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in
> > receiving that. Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Best wishes for a Happy new Year
> >
> > Fergus Reynolds
> > _______________________________________________
> > Advisory mailing list Advisory@talk.naace.org
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> >
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> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://talk.naace.org/mm/listinfo/secondary
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> >
> > or: send a message to Secondary-request@talk.naace.org
> > with the body text:
> >
> > unsubscribe YourPassword YourEmailAddress
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> Neil Adam
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>
--0016e6d7e065e3e592047caace44
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Totally agree Ray. This is an opportunity to shape Parental Engagement and =
a fantastic opportunity to engage parents in the secondary education of the=
ir children.<br><br>NAACE Members can help bring about a dialogue and shape=
the future. Brilliant!<br>
<br>Jeremy<br><br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/1/8 Ray Tolley <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk">rjt@maximise-=
ict.co.uk</a>></span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bord=
er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-l=
eft: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor=3D"white" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" lang=3D"EN-GB">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Hi, All,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">In reply particularly to Alistair and Neil A.=A0 I think that
there is no need to take a pessimistic or even a jaundiced view.=A0=A0 I
have been phoning round a handful of leading VLE suppliers and they all cla=
im
to be on the verge of delivering on-line and real-time reporting.=A0 I=92m
sure that lots of promises will be made at BETT next week.=A0 We need to be
talking to these people and really make constructive and supportive suggest=
ions.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">However, as I suggested previously, attendance, even if a bit
simplistic in terms of number crunching, IS a start.=A0 Parents and pupils
are both comfortable with the scenario =96 and the kids don=92t see it
as spying.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">So, yet again, as Leon has suggested in a different context, let=92s
start actually collaborating about the positive potential rather than the n=
egative
clouds of gloom and doubt.=A0 Surely this, again, is a job for Naace =96
or should we look elsewhere?=A0 ;-)</span></p><div class=3D"im">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">BW</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Ray Tolley=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">B:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
"><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
W:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</sp=
an></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of th=
e IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
</div><div>
<div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 22=
3) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium=
; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">F=
rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"=
mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary-admin@ta=
lk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<b=
r>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 14:20<br>
<b>To:</b> Ray Tolley; <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D=
"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naac=
e.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant</span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hi
Ray</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">No.
I agree. at least=A0in so much as John's concept of what parents would =
find
genuinely useful in trying to engage and support their pupil's learning=
is
concerned and in so much as having any of your computerised work available
online, 'cause why wouldn't you ?=A0Personally, I like your anecdot=
e and am
happy to support people developing this kind of approach, if it's worki=
ng for
them. But, let's not take our eyes off the reality of what is really ha=
ppening
here in education. If the current climate continues to be allowed to thrive=
,
then the funding and the support will not go towards supporting the develop=
ment
of your anecdotal evidence. It will pass from one 'administrator' t=
o another,
because 'all you would have to show for it' would be an anecdote wh=
ilst 'they'
would be able to show 'real' benefits, ie another boring graph.</sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
think some people genuinely would like schools to be a bit more like
supermarkets. I can't understand why, other than how easy=A0administrat=
ion
would be if we were all literally vegetables.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I=A0am
under no illusion about how this is likely to develop. I feel duty bound to=
do
what i can to try and head this off at the pass. Not just the online agenda=
,
but the underlying principles that are masked by its potential development =
in
what i see to be the wrong direction for, not just ICT in the UK, but
potentially the state of the world.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
too think we could have been at the brink of something very exciting. Howev=
er,
I don't think for a minute that your anecdote will hold any water in 5 =
years
time if we don't rant like lunatics about=A0this now.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I'm
starting to think I might just be rubbish at email and it's hard to con=
vey what
I mean. I am not trying to disagree with anybody necessarily. I'm tryin=
g to
understand why a system for generating new levels of uninteresting informat=
ion
might be sought after, whilst also trying to flag up something much more
important about the state of our nation which online graphs (and yes that I=
S
what we will probably end up with) will only consolidate. None of it's
important. None of it. My child might be level 1, he might be level 10. He
might be an alien. I don't care. He's my child. I would like to kno=
w how his
life is going, that he and the people around him genuinely know who he
is=A0and that he is going to live in a=A0 world where that's OK.</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I'm
upset that that will be viewed as somehow unsubstantiated, unprofessional o=
r
invalid. In fact, I'm upset that your anecdote may not be used as a ben=
chmark
for developing online systems because it's not on a spreadsheet.</span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I'm
going outside now to hopefully snowball someone I've never met.</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Alistair</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz=
-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width=
: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">-----
Original Message ----- </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat =
scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding=
; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:=
rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" title=3D"rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">=
Ray Tolley</a> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory@talk.naace.org=
</a>
; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" title=3D"secondary@talk.naace=
.org" target=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sent:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> Wednesday, January
06, 2010 1:19 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Subject:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> RE: [Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Allistair,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I like your style and appreciate where you are coming from after
my own 45 years at the chalkface.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">However, this on-line reporting =91thing=92 is not about
grades or graphs it is about progress and process. =A0In other words where
the learner has come from, where they are now and where they want to get to=
.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Does not my anecdote related previously suggest that the
parent/carer will have a better insight of their child=92s progress through
seeing the actual evidences of work done and progress made? =A0And for that
matter not being suddenly surprised at the Parents=92 Meeting?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">I worked with CMIS in a school some 5-6 years ago and could well
see the potential for =91anytime annotation=92 of a child=92s
progress which could then be accessed as near as anything at any point in t=
ime
by (at that time) teachers.=A0 This, to me is what =91real-time=92
reporting is about.=A0 No pressure on the teacher to meet the massive
deadlines of end-of-term reports written late at night in a stupor of tired=
ness.=A0
But rather a progressive compilation of formative feedback along with the
automated and monitored documentation of collaborative self-assessments as =
and
when completed.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">As others have said, we are at the brink of something very
exciting.=A0 Let=92s all pull together in (approximately) the same
direction!</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">BW</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Ray Tolley=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"_blank"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">B:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
"><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span><=
/a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
W:=A0 </span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=3D"_blank"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</sp=
an></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br=
>
</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">Winner of th=
e IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">=A0</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 22=
3) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium=
; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US">F=
rom:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;" lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"=
mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advisory-admin@talk=
.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">=
advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alistair Goodwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 January 2010 12:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Crispin Weston; 'advisory'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant</sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hi
Crispin et al</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Apologies
for appearing to misinterpret your angle on this (see my footnote). Your re=
cent
email certainly outlines where you stand on this and I appreciate that. My
comments still stand though. The supermarket analogy is a really useful
starting point for discussing this and John's and other's comments =
on what is
useful / probably most desirable to parents is a strong development
of=A0this also.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
have 2 favourite quotes and a piece of useful advice I was given a long tim=
e
ago on this subject.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
first quote is obviously the pig one, pithy or not (lisping or otherwise :)=
.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
second is Einstein's:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">"Not
everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can b=
e
counted."</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">(again,
apologies to Einstein if he does not entirely share my view here, but I sti=
ll
like it)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
piece of advice I was given on making sound assessments of curriculum level=
s is
this;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">"Pick
a number between 1 and 5 and chances are you're not that far out."=
- Pure
genius.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To
me, teaching is a two way process. I don't teach the same stuff to the =
same
pupil as anyone else because I would have a rough long-term plan of what go=
es
on where. Job done.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">The
rest is down to me 'teaching'. I know if I start=A0discussing somet=
hing with
someone whether they are interested / able to understand what I'm sayin=
g /
listening / struggling etc. I make this judgement based on human traits I a=
nd
they have and through a process of mutual respect. I don't write it dow=
n. I
just adjust what I'm saying as I say it, to accomodate the sense of the=
person
in front of me and the way in which they are 'taking' my meaning. I=
can still
make the same point. We almost all do this constantly and impercievably. If=
a
pupil in the class has 'done this already at my old school, sir' I =
make damn
sure he/she gets a different angle / perspective on it but that=A0they stil=
l
appear to be studying alongside their peers. I may or may not write this do=
wn.
Depends if I want to and if it's useful to me or the pupil at the time.=
I
certainly don't put it on line. I'm probably at the pub.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
believe I am able to do this because I had a good upbringing and care about
where other people are coming from. It's an approach that works in main=
stream
settings, SEN, the curry house, Paddington Station and Tiananmen square.
Somewhere along the line teachers, friends and colleagues allowed me to dev=
elop
into somebody who knows who he is. If you as a teacher think you can do thi=
s
better on-line, then great. I accept that and am happy=A0about it.=A0I
won't be joining you.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Furthermore,
when I was at school I sat a series of exams at precisely the same time as
everyone else in the country whether I was ready for it or not. The grade I=
got
was personal to me, and presumably related to whatever I wrote on the paper=
at
the time. I'm unclear on how much more 'personalised' that grad=
e could have
got. However, I'm also very clear that that grade in that exam relates =
to
little other than my ability to get that grade in that exam. What about it?=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To
me, assessment looks like a lesson plan. I wouldn't have planned the le=
sson
like that if I thought it was at the wrong 'level' or if it wasn=
9;t clearly the
'next step' in these pupils' learning. You want to see how good=
my judgement
is, pop your head in the door for 10 seconds. You'll soon work it out.<=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Draw
a graph / don't draw a graph. It makes absolutley no difference to me
whatsoever. I never look at them.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Just
to make my position even more clear, if you think that giving all pupils on=
free
school meals a laptop is going to sort this country out, you're an idio=
t. The
divide is not digital. It's human. I can see it quite clearly, but only=
when
I'm not staring at this damn laptop.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I
am confident that my views here will be seen by=A0some as=A0out of line
and unprofessional. And there's your problem in a nutshell. More graphs=
, less
emotion. God help us.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Isn't
it about time that people who like graphs and records and stuff just go bac=
k to
administrative roles rather than making the rest of us feel like our lives
aren't valid if they're not spellchecked and coloured according to =
category?
Who put them in charge=A0? That's=A0NEVER going to work. Natural
administrators are never going to happily relinquish control and power. The=
y
will simply introduce new systems on top of new systems increasingly
invalidating anybody else's point of view, humanity, art, music etc Hop=
efully,
the new drive provided by the thinkers behind the Primary Curriculum review
will force these people out of the picture because people will again get a
chance to see that there is potentially more to life on planet earth and th=
at
life is just too short to get hung up on how much progress you made this we=
ek
compared to your 'statistical neighbour'. No one even talks to thei=
r=A0REAL neighbours
anymore. Wake up. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Something
is wrong and the current level of availability of online grades is really n=
ot
likely to be the source of the problem.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">There
is only one purpose to life: To live.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Take
a deep breath... and begin.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Alistair
Goodwin</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Hants</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">N.B.
The views expressed in this email are mine, not Crispin's... but I am
perfectly=A0happy to share them :-)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz=
-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width=
: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0cm 0cm =
0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">-----
Original Message ----- </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat =
scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: border; -moz-background-origin: padding=
; -moz-background-inline-policy: continuous;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:=
crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" title=3D"crispin.weston@alphalearning.c=
o.uk" target=3D"_blank">Crispin Weston</a> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">To:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" =
title=3D"advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">'advisory'</a>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sent:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> Tuesday, January 05,
2010 6:57 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Subject:</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"> RE: [Advisory]
Online Reporting in Schools</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hi all=
,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I seem=
to have stirred something up here. Thanks to
everyone=92s comments and apologies in advance for a correspondingly long
essay in response.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Mike.=
I agree.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Alist=
air: thanks for the bouquet =96 but I think you may have
misunderstood my position and I fear that the bouquet might metamorphose in=
to a
brickbat. =A0My point is that I *<b>agree</b>* with Chris Gerry that school=
s
should become more like supermarkets in terms of their business intelligenc=
e
(though not, of course, in terms of the service they offer). My criticism o=
f
real time reporting is not of the aspiration but of the failure to put in p=
lace
some of the essential prerequisites beforehand.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of cou=
rse I also agree with the stuff about children being happy,
fulfilled individuals =96 but I am suspicious of what I take to be a
suggestion that efficiency is the enemy of happiness. People=92s happiness
increases a little when they receive a public service which is efficient an=
d
appropriate to their needs. My happiness increases when I go into Tesco and
find that they have my favourite type of Taramosalata in stock and I am
(moderately) grateful for the computerised logistics systems which ensure t=
hat
it is. A student becomes a little happier when he receives teaching which i=
s
relevant to his needs and is not required to sit in a classroom for years o=
n
end being taught things that he either doesn=92t understand or already
knows, just because the school hasn=92t bothered accurately to assess and
track what that student=92s learning needs are.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">To res=
pond to Jeff=92s pithy comment:</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">=
You
can't fatten a pig by weighing it!=94</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I agre=
e that you fatten a pig by feeding it. But you establish how
much and what sort of food to feed it by weighing it. Try telling a pig far=
mer
that he should not bother to weigh his pigs and I suspect he would tell you
that you know nothing about running a pig farm. Any efficient business is
completely dependent on feedback and analysis of what it is doing. The syst=
ems
that we have in place for doing this in education are generally extraordina=
rily
primitive.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I have=
some sympathy with Alistair=92s comment </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=93</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">=
the
graphs ? I seriously do not </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "C=
ourier New";">understand
where they fit in=94</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">but th=
e problem here is not the fact that the data is being
collected but that it is not being used efficiently. Nothing is joined up.
There is no benefit in collecting data just for the sake of making pretty
graphs. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So wha=
t *<b>is</b>* the point of collecting the data? It seems to
me that one of the primary criteria of efficiency in education (putting asi=
de
motivation for a moment) is the correct pitching of teaching. In my experie=
nce
as a teacher, there is a time when a student is ready to learn something. A=
part
from *<b>wanting</b>* to learn it (again, a motivational aspect), the stude=
nt
must have mastered the necessary prerequisites. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">So the=
key requirement for an efficient education system is
managing progression, differentiation and personalisation to ensure that th=
e
right student gets the right bit of teaching at the right time =96 just as
a farmer gives the right sort of food to the right pig or puts the right bi=
t of
fertilizer on the right bit of the field. And in managerial terms for the
classroom teacher, that is an extremely complex managerial task.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">We sta=
rt from an extraordinarily antiquated system in which people
are driven through the syllabus in age-based cohorts, like troops being dri=
ven
over the top at the Somme in neat lines. But to get away from this, we have=
to
have systems capable of tracking students=92 individual capabilities. This
type of tracking of business effectiveness is so ubiquitous and its value s=
o
widely accepted that I find it very strange that we are even having this
discussion as to whether we should be doing the same things in education.</=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Of cou=
rse, in education unlike farming, the student (unlike the
pig) has an important say in what he/she needs =96 but this is a question
of where the data comes from and does not undermine the need to track it. T=
his
links back to the motivational aspect: I am more likely to be motivated if =
the
system is tracking (and responding to) my individual needs =96 and even
more motivated if it is tracking (and responding to) my individual wants. T=
he
whole point of modern business intelligence systems is that they *<b>do</b>=
*
treat people as individuals, even though there are large numbers of them in=
the
system.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Ray: =
I am not criticising the software systems that are out there
(either for tracking student progress or even for e-portfolio </span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: navy;">J</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> but
rather the difficulty of getting data in sufficient quality and quantity in=
to
these systems. I do not see real-time reporting or the involvement of paren=
ts
as a pre-requisite but rather as a follow-on benefit from implementing
effective internal systems. So the fact that real-time reporting is a
relatively recent government target does not undermine the fact that,
internally, the requirement for business intelligence has been long-standin=
g.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I supp=
ort the objective of real time reporting. The danger (as with
so many other systems) is that it will be introduced in response to what so=
me
Secretary of State dreamed up in the bath, driven through by civil servants=
who
are only concerned to tick the right boxes, fail miserably to do anyone any
good and end up with people saying =93real time reporting doesn=92t
work=94. It is very important to manage the introduction of these projects
properly and, in the case of real-time reporting, this means ensuring that =
you
have a sufficient supply of data to the reporting component.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Hardly=
any of these components (real-time reporting, e-portfolio,
learning tools, VLEs, MIS) is really viable on its own =96 which is why
interoperability ought to have been the first thing to be fixed and why it =
has
been such a disaster that it wasn=92t. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Re. th=
e Moodle video you link to =96 I completely agree with
the point that this is making. The data that the parent can see is the data
which is being automatically managed by Moodle from the online assignments.
When it comes to offline assignments, no-one is realistically going to sit =
down
in the evening and key in the data. So the more data is collected automatic=
ally
(and I think most people would agree that at the moment, the type of data b=
eing
collected by Moodle, is fairly rudimentary) the richer the online reporting=
to
parents can become. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@John.=
I agree that you need to show the right data to the right
people in the right way (see comments on drowning in data below). I agree w=
ith
your analysis of what parents probably want. But the fact that this is what=
you
show to parents does not mean that you should not be tracking other types o=
f
data as well, which may be of interest to other people, either in raw or
processed form. There may be aspects of pupil=92s performance and
competency which the over-pressed or stand-in teacher is completely unaware=
of.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">=A0</s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">@Neil:=
I agree with many of your concerns but not with your
conclusion. My responses inline.</span></p>
<div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-te=
xt-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium=
medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
All very well talking bar codes, but learning outcomes are not
"articles" that can be given an EAN and scanned into a system. <s=
pan style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I don=92t see why not. Has
Johnny handed in a satisfactory piece of work demonstrating an understandin=
g of
Pythagoras? Yes? Bleep! </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Of course I exaggerate a bit and a
binary =93bleep=94 does not represent particularly high quality data
=96 but other quantitative data like scores and grades are all useful. You
will get teachers to input comments wherever possible =96 and make it as
easy as possible for them to do so =96 but teacher comments are (a)
expensive and (b) are not always uber-reliable either. One of the big gains=
for
businesses in using the internet is in getting the customer to do a lot of =
the
data entry that clerical staff used to have to do. Which is my original poi=
nt:
data entry is the killer and should be automated wherever possible.</span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">While I agree that the definition
of some teaching aims and outcomes are subjective, so are the buying decisi=
ons
of many shoppers. But complex, subjective buying decisions can nevertheless=
,
when analysed, demonstrate surprising degrees of consistency. Maths models
probability really quite well.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">That is the problem w=
ith
software and (even) performance/competency data - much of it has a subjecti=
ve
element that "learning<span style=3D"color: navy;"> </span>software (r=
eally
useful and compelling in its own right)" cannot automatically assess a=
nd
post into your data capture system. Then there's a whole range of
"softer" skills that are even harder to assess in that way, but w=
hich
are vital to modern life.<span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">So, following from above, I agree
about the subjectivity but do not see this as a problem so long as the syst=
em
recognises the fact of this uncertainty.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I would call any measure of
competency a =93competency claim=94, just as a philosopher might talk
about a =93truth claim=94. If you start to see a large number of
competency claims from different sources showing a significant degree of
consistency, you can start to talk about that student=92s competency with
some degree of confidence.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Competency claims will very often
be accompanied by the evidence (e.g. student output on a student e-portfoli=
o)
which supports the claim. Quantitative data can be qualified by comments. S=
o
the subjective element can be reviewed and interpreted and conclusions
moderated. The subjective tendencies of particular assessors can also be
tracked and compensated for.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Also, I am proposing the
measurement of competency as an *<b>input</b>* and not an *<b>output</b>* o=
f
the system. A group of students who are perceived to be weak on subtraction=
are
not failed in their end-of-course exams; but they are given some extra teac=
hing
before the introduction of a unit on long division. If that perception is
misjudged in a few cases, no very great harm has been done and the decision=
to
make that intervention can be quickly overridden. Making interventions base=
d on
some kind of business intelligence seems to me to be preferable, even if th=
e
intelligence is not perfect, to making no interventions at all. People migh=
t
say that, in the current environment, intervention is left to the professio=
nal
judgement of the teacher =96 but we all know that, 90% of the time, hardly
anything happens at all. The swill is just shovelled into the trough and th=
e pigs
are left to fight for it.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">And finally, while some
=93soft=94 competencies are very subjective, others are actually pretty
straightforward. How good is someone=92s French vocab within a particular
domain? Not really that difficult for a computer-delivered activity to meas=
ure
with a fair degree of accuracy. For all the talk of advanced conceptual ski=
lls,
there is quite a lot of learning which is pretty humdrum. One massive
efficiency would be to ensure that the skilled graduate teacher (who repres=
ents
a valuable resource) should not be put in front of a class of students who =
have
not acquired the basic knowledge which will allow them to access the partic=
ular
thing that the skilled graduate teacher has to offer. This is why Chris
Gerry=92s approach combines business intelligence with flexible grouping
and staffing systems.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">The Government (quite
reasonably) wants to reduce teacher workload through automation, but there
comes a point at which we have to ask "what can be reasonably"
automated. As it is, the reductionist approach is creating more and more
problems with SATs (let alone workload involved) as it becomes harder and
harder to align the capability that pupils display year-on-year. That of co=
urse
begs the whole norm vs criterion-referenced exam debate. <span style=3D"col=
or: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think I agree with what you are
saying here. I have never thought that a paragraph of bureaucratic text (wh=
ich
is what criterion referencing gave us) is sufficient to define a competency=
.
Everyone understands the paragraph differently, which has given governments=
the
opportunity to manipulate results data for their own purposes. I would see =
a
competency definition as a =93live=94 thing, which lived through a
continuous process of moderation, discussion and revision. Which what good
teachers do anyway.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">At the moment people =
are
(because the current system is more reductionist, criterion-based) teaching=
to
the test and "standards" are going up. But is that actually educa=
ting
children better? Do they get to the next stage of education and into work a=
ctually
more capable (as against "competent")? I think not.<span style=3D=
"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I don=92t see any problem with
teaching to the test if it is a good test. The traditional academic essay, =
well
examined, provided a real test of original and creative thought and I do no=
t
think that I am alone in remembering that I learnt more when revising for m=
y
major exams than in years of cruising along in classrooms. OK =96 the
academic essay is not appropriate to many students and many types of
examination =96 but I think that a properly reconstituted examination syste=
m
should be able to come up with tests which do not reward mechanistic teachi=
ng
or merely the regurgitation of rote learning.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">So, are we chasing ou=
r tails by
thinking we really can produce software-assessed learning tasks? <span styl=
e=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think there is a bit of a false
dichotomy here between computer and teacher. Some tasks (see above) can be
computer assessed very easily =96 others cannot. But in the latter case,
the job of the teacher can be made very much easier by being assisted by
appropriate computer systems. The fact that I am writing this on the comput=
er
does not dehumanize my thoughts, (whether you agree with the views or not).=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">or does the VLE-emper=
or have no
clothes after all? <span style=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I think in many respects the
VLE-emperor as currently implemented is a pretty skimpy dresser. But that
leaves a vacant imperial throne which I think you will see being occupied b=
y
more capable systems which will bring the long delayed digital revolution t=
o
schools. Any good software system requires some kind of infrastructure-cont=
ent set
up. What sits in the vacated VLE throne will be the infrastructure bits
(plural) of the system. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I tend to believe it =
is rather
naked and is going to remain so until the much vaunted but
yet-way-into-the-future true artificial intelligence is delivered.<span sty=
le=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I do not think that there will
ever be a magical (and rather spooky) total AI solution =96 rather *<b>suff=
icient</b>*
intelligence for any particular task, with the ultimate intelligence always
coming back to the human teacher. This is all about supporting, not replaci=
ng,
the human teacher who (in supermarket terms) will always be the store manag=
er.
People who have read too much Asimov and Orwell get very worked up about
dehumanising robots without noticing that they are using them all the time =
and
that the robots are fantastically useful.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">I believe we should b=
e doing
more to get resources and tools to learners to learn and to teachers to hel=
p
them teach, but not get so hung up chasing a data-driven dream.<span style=
=3D"color: navy;"></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I do not think that
resources-and-tools on the one hand and data on the other are separable. To
take Microsoft Word as an example: it produces documents (i.e. data). It
simplifies the task by saving style sheets (more data). Every time it launc=
hes
it reads my preferences (more data) from an initialisation file. When I am =
half
way through writing a document, I can save state (data again). And in a for=
mal
teaching context, when a teacher asks the class to do something, doesn=92t
the teacher expect to see what the students have done, if anything?</span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">One of the major problems with
learning resources and tools at the moment (and which we are trying to addr=
ess
through the BECTA/ISB Content Packaging project) is the fact that so much
learning content is =93static=94 and not data aware =96 it does not
contextualise, personalise, adapt and report.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Much of this data does not cross
the human=92s retina =96 it works in the background. People drown not
because the sea is big but because they can=92t swim. People =93drown
in data=94 not because there is too much data but because it is not
understandable or because it is not useful or they are show the wrong sort =
or
in the wrong way. John Wasteney says that parents do not want to see attend=
ance
records but they do like to receive a text message when their child
hasn=92t turned up to school. Quite agree. But that is a point about the
presentation of data, not about whether data is a good thing in itself.</sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">One of the characteristics of
modern technology is how user interfaces have become very much simpler to u=
se.
Good software will collect the data, make sense of the data, and present to=
the
teacher only what the teacher finds useful. Substitute parent/student/head
teacher/special needs adviser etc for teacher as required.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">In summary, my position is that
data is the life-blood of any modern business and education is a very large=
,
very complex, very expensive business. </span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Some data is very straightforward
and objective. Some is more subjective and nuanced. So create systems which=
run
the right horse on the right course. Codify and measure where you can (beca=
use
codification allows automation), use free text where you need nuance and
interpretation. I can=92t see the problem.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Ultimately, it doesn=92t seem
to me to be very reasonable that teachers should benefit from the efficienc=
y
gains offered by other services and at the same time, when it comes to offe=
ring
the same level of efficiency in the service that they are responsible for
providing, claim that they inhabit some sort of Arcadian grove where the wr=
it
of modern business management techniques does not run.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">I guess that should be accompanied
by sounds of more stirring!</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: navy;">Crispin.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;">=A0</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2010/1/5 Crispin Weston <<a href=3D"mailto:crispi=
n.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearnin=
g.co.uk</a>></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It has always struck me that the real-time reporting=
agenda
has a massive<br>
missing piece: where is the data that you are meant to be reporting on?<br>
I thought Chris Gerry (an innovative Head Teacher from Kent) made an<br>
excellent presentation at the NAACE autumn conference, pointing out that<br=
>
while Tesco analyses data on virtually every aspect of shoppers' purcha=
sing<br>
preferences, schools are, in terms of business intelligence, still in a sor=
t<br>
of Dickensian Dark Age of paper-based ledgers. Most schools have very littl=
e<br>
useful performance or competency data in their systems. There's a big<b=
r>
emphasis on attendance, I suspect, because it is about the only useful<br>
real-time data that schools have.<br>
The feet of clay of any business intelligence system is data input - and<br=
>
manual input is never the answer. The revolution for the supermarkets lay i=
n<br>
the bar-code reader. The revolution for schools will be when learning<br>
software (really useful and compelling in its own right) can report student=
<br>
performance and competence straight into central systems, which must also o=
f<br>
course be able to make sense of that data.<br>
I think that until this kind of interoperable data flow is sorted out, most=
<br>
of the energy in real time reporting programme will go on covering up the<b=
r>
fact that schools will simply be unable to deliver what has been promised b=
y<br>
the government.<br>
Crispin.<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On Behalf
Of Colin J Revell<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 18:05<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools<br>
><br>
> Some thought for comment;<br>
><br>
> Being as I am in the process of rolling out secure online access to<br=
>
> parents<br>
> I find it interesting that there is very little "official"<b=
r>
> information about<br>
> this that I have come across. If you search online for real time<br>
> reporting<br>
> to parents or similar, you mainly get references to the letter that<br=
>
> Ed Balls<br>
> released at BETT in Jan 2008.<br>
><br>
> Where is the official guidance of exactly what has to be done, by<br>
> whom and<br>
> by when - as far as I can see there is more rumour than substance<br>
> and I am<br>
> wandering, in my more cynical moments, how much of the momentum for<br=
>
> this<br>
> change is coming from the MIS providers?<br>
><br>
> Colin<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:secondary-" target=3D"_blank">secondary-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Tony Parkin<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 14:22<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Cc: Ray Tolley<br>
> Subject: RE: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br=
>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Fergus<br>
><br>
> ... and =A0it may be worth a reminder to those schools exploring this<=
br>
> journey<br>
> of the 'expectations' in this area, as currently delineated on=
the<br>
> Becta<br>
> website.....?<br>
> Ray might even like to ask suppliers in his calls how their<br>
> offerings<br>
> measure up against these requirements?<br>
><br>
> "What is online reporting?<br>
><br>
> Online reporting involves using ICT to enable parents to receive and<b=
r>
> access<br>
> information about their children's work, progress, attendance and<=
br>
> behaviour<br>
> when and where they want, using secure, online access.<br>
><br>
> What do I have to do and when?<br>
><br>
> Secondary schools are expected to make the following information<br>
> available<br>
> to parents through secure online access by September 2010:<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Attendance and behaviour (both positive and challenging)<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Progress and attainment<br>
> =A0 =A0 * Special needs<br>
> All primary schools are expected to achieve this by September 2012.&qu=
ot;<br>
><br>
> It is worth noting that not all these aspects are addressed in some<br=
>
> of the<br>
> solutions being promoted to schools as ideal ways of meeting these<br>
> aspirations.<br>
><br>
> Also perhaps that 'real-time reporting', though clearly invalu=
able<br>
> and<br>
> undoubtedly welcomed by parents, is NOT part of the specification?<br>
><br>
> Tony<br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> Tony Parkin<br>
> Head of ICT Development<br>
> Specialist Schools & Academies Trust<br>
> 17th Floor, Millbank Tower<br>
> 21-24 Millbank<br>
> London SW1P 4QP<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Email%3Atony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk" target=3D"_blan=
k">Email:tony.parkin@ssatrust.org.uk</a><br>
> Tel: +44 20 7802 2306<br>
> Mob:+44 07739 436073<br>
> Skype: parkintony<br>
> MSN: <a href=3D"mailto:a.c.parkin@hotmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">a.c=
.parkin@hotmail.co.uk</a><br>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
> ________________________________________<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:secondary-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">secondary-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[secondary-<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>] On<br>
> Behalf Of Ray Tolley [<a href=3D"mailto:rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk</a>]<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 12:41<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:secondary@talk.naace.org" target=
=3D"_blank">secondary@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Secondary] FW: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary<br>
> Schools<br>
><br>
> Hi, Fergus,<br>
><br>
> I agree with Tony up to a point, but 'reports' are always abou=
t past<br>
> experience and possibly previous teaching and learning styles. =A0I<br=
>
> did a<br>
> quick phone-round of some of the suppliers but unfortunately they<br>
> were all<br>
> on holiday.<br>
><br>
> I have my own ideas on the benefits of on-line reporting and will<br>
> 'interrogate' leading known suppliers as to how they see on-li=
ne<br>
> reporting<br>
> moving in the near future. - I will report back shortly - probably<br>
> next<br>
> week.<br>
><br>
> Meanwhile, I would suggest that there are three different aspects to<b=
r>
> this<br>
> issue:<br>
><br>
> 1. =A0The appropriate access to real-time reporting of progress<br>
> through<br>
> activities completed using some form of assessment software like<br>
> 'SmartAssess';<br>
> 2. =A0The reporting written by teachers, that can be reasonably up-to-=
<br>
> date,<br>
> such as provided by SERCO/CMIS/Facility;<br>
> 3. =A0The formative and possibly informal reporting available through<=
br>
> a good<br>
> e-Portfolio system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure that there are several other competitive products - but<b=
r>
> firstly it<br>
> will depend on your present VLE provider.<br>
><br>
> PS: =A0BETT will be a good source of advice even if coloured by some<b=
r>
> degree of<br>
> 'sales pitch'.<br>
><br>
> Best Wishes,<br>
><br>
> Ray Tolley =A0FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD<br>
> ICT Education Consultant<br>
> Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
> P: =A0<a href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</a><br>
> B: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/</a><br>
> W: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</a><br>
> Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</a>
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:advisory-" target=3D"_blank">advisory-</a><br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">admin@talk.n=
aace.org</a>]<br>
> On Behalf Of Fergus Reynolds<br>
> Sent: 31 December 2009 09:18<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:advisory@talk.naace.org" target=3D"_blank">advis=
ory@talk.naace.org</a><br>
> Subject: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Primary Schools<br>
><br>
> Colleagues,<br>
><br>
> Does anybody have any advice, hints or tips on developing online<br>
> reporting in Primary schools? I am interested in examples of good<br>
> practice and any suggestions colleagues may have to help avoid<br>
> pitfalls in getting going. I am also interested in any schools that<br=
>
> colleagues could recommend as examples of good practice in this area<b=
r>
> -<br>
> especially in the North West of England. Any help, comments, etc<br>
> appreciated.<br>
> I am happy to receive responses offline if colleagues prefer that. I<b=
r>
> would be happy to collate responses if anyone would be interested in<b=
r>
> receiving that. =A0Thanks in anticipation.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes for a Happy new Year<br>
><br>
> Fergus Reynolds<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
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Twitter: @NeilAdam<br>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote></div><br>
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