[Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A serious rant
Ray Tolley
rjt@maximise-ict.co.uk
Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:23:56 -0000
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Crispin, I can only reply with:
Judges 17:6 "In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did
that which was right in his own eyes."
Ray Tolley FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, MBILD
ICT Education Consultant
Maximise ICT Ltd
P: <http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/>
http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/
B: <http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/>
http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/
W: <http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm>
http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm
Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award 2009'
From: Crispin Weston [mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk]
Sent: 10 January 2010 11:11
To: 'Neil Adam'; 'Ray Tolley'
Cc: 'advisory'; 'secondary'
Subject: RE: [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in Schools - A
serious rant
Catching up with this thread, I am reminded of this exchange in
Shakespeare's Tempest:
MIRANDA. O the heavens!
What foul play had we, that we came from thence? [deposed from Milan and
exiled on an island]
Or blessed was't we did?
PROSPERO. Both, both, my girl.
Are schools about people or systems? Are good diagnostics supported by
insightful teacher comments or objective quantitative data (or indeed
student self assessments)?
"Both, both my girl" seems to be a pretty good answer to all of these
questions (depending, I suppose, on whom you are addressing).
The converse kind of argument (which seems to have received a bit of an
airing on the list) is based on the construction of false dichotomies. It
says that *because* schools are about people, *therefore* they do not
require good management systems, or *because* we like insightful teacher
comments, *therefore* quantitative data is of no use. It is a kind of
argument which is as commonly heard as it is logically flawed. It is often
the synergies - between people and efficient management systems and between
quantitative and qualitative data, that really deliver the results.
I agree with Neil when he says that "It worries me that the level of detail
you [Ray] imply will take "forever" for people to put into systems". Ray
says "let's start actually collaborating about the positive potential rather
than the negative clouds of gloom and doubt". But this is another argument
that I hear often but leaves me a little cold - be constructive, don't
criticise, get on board the train now leaving platform 6. Good intentions
are dangerous things (even though Ray will be the first to point out that I
have a few myself). We have to make sure that the policies being advocated
are realistic, well thought out and are likely to work. I take "don't
criticise" as a cast iron guarantee that what is being advocated doesn't
work.
Mike Briscoe says that "it is DIALOGUE that the online reporting activity is
focused upon". I don't think that anyone would argue with the value of
dialogue or of parental engagement any more than with motherhood and apple
pie. But dialogue (perhaps over wine and nibbles) is not the same as
reporting. The *quality* of any dialogue will depend very largely on the
value of the information which underpins it. It will also depend on the
amount of effort put into maintaining the dialogue-and the amount of effort
required from teachers to marshal the relevant data and write the emails and
follow them up and deal with the complaints and possible confrontations is
all very considerable. Which is why many teachers find other ways of
spending their evenings-and why I am advocating that we should look to
support the dialogue with better data systems. If you put the burden on
teachers to keep the dialogue going, nothing will happen 90% of the time. If
you create automatic reporting systems, you will allow parents to initiate
any dialogue that the data seems to require.
The Becta video clip that Mike links to says that "Schools are using
websites, electronic newsletters and email to keep parents informed about a
wide variety of topics" - all of these boil down, I suspect, to informal,
teacher-driven forms of communication which are not only time consuming but
which are likely to have little or no solid data underpinning. It sounds to
me like there's a lot of back-pedalling going on. "Reporting" is being
morphed into "dialogue" and hard data into newsletters.
So, just to reiterate my position (in case people take it from the above
that I am being too negative), I support dialogue, I support real time
reporting and I support what most people have said about the need for rich
and varied data. But you can't put the burden of delivering these things on
the poor bloody infantry all the time. You have to provide teachers with the
right tools. In this case, that means good data systems with automatic data
capture. Data capture is critical. That is what Bill Gates meant when he
said "content is king": you can build the fanciest systems you like but
without any data they are a waste of space. And that is why the historic
failure to address data interoperability in schools has such serious
consequences for the real-time reporting agenda (amongst others).
Crispin.
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Crispin, I can only reply =
with:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span style=3D'color:#C00000'>Judges 17:6 =
“In those
days there was no king in Israel, but <b>every man did that which was =
right in
his own eyes.”</b></span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ray Tolley </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FEIDCT, NAACE Fellow, ACQI, =
MBILD</span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
ICT Education Consultant<br>
Maximise ICT Ltd<br>
P: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://raytolley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://raytol=
ley.v2efolioworld.mnscu.edu/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>B: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href=3D"http://www.efoliointheuk.blogspot.com/"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ef=
oliointheuk.blogspot.com/</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
W: </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.maximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.ma=
ximise-ict.co.uk/eFolio-01.htm</span></a></span><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br>
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#C00000'>Winner of the IMS 'Leadership Regional Award =
2009'</span><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Crispin Weston
[mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 10 January 2010 11:11<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Neil Adam'; 'Ray Tolley'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'advisory'; 'secondary'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Secondary] Re: [Advisory] Online Reporting in =
Schools - A
serious rant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Catching up with this thread, I am reminded of this exchange =
in
Shakespeare’s Tempest:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:purple'>MIRANDA. O the heavens! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:purple'>What foul play had we, that we came from thence? [deposed =
from
Milan and exiled on an island]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:purple'>Or blessed was't we did?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:purple'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:purple'>PROSPERO. Both, both, my girl.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Are schools about people or systems? Are good diagnostics =
supported
by insightful teacher comments or objective quantitative data (or indeed
student self assessments)? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>“Both, both my girl” seems to be a pretty good =
answer to all of
these questions (depending, I suppose, on whom you are addressing). =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>The converse kind of argument (which seems to have received =
a bit
of an airing on the list) is based on the construction of false =
dichotomies. It
says that *<b>because</b>* schools are about people, *<b>therefore</b>* =
they do
not require good management systems, or *<b>because</b>* we like =
insightful
teacher comments, *<b>therefore</b>* quantitative data is of no use. It =
is a
kind of argument which is as commonly heard as it is logically flawed. =
It is
often the synergies – between people and efficient management =
systems and
between quantitative and qualitative data, that really deliver the =
results.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I agree with Neil when he says that “It worries me =
that the level
of detail you [Ray] imply will take "forever" for people to =
put into
systems”. Ray says “let’s start actually collaborating =
about the positive
potential rather than the negative clouds of gloom and doubt”. But =
this is
another argument that I hear often but leaves me a little cold – =
be constructive,
don’t criticise, get on board the train now leaving platform 6. =
Good intentions
are dangerous things (even though Ray will be the first to point out =
that I
have a few myself). We have to make sure that the policies being =
advocated are
realistic, well thought out and are likely to work. I take =
“don’t criticise” as
a cast iron guarantee that what is being advocated doesn’t work. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Mike Briscoe says that “it is DIALOGUE that the online =
reporting
activity is focused upon”. I don’t think that anyone would =
argue with the value
of dialogue or of parental engagement any more than with motherhood and =
apple
pie. But dialogue (perhaps over wine and nibbles) is not the same as =
reporting.
The *<b>quality</b>* of any dialogue will depend very largely on the =
value of
the information which underpins it. It will also depend on the amount of =
effort
put into maintaining the dialogue—and the amount of effort =
required from
teachers to marshal the relevant data and write the emails and follow =
them up
and deal with the complaints and possible confrontations is all very
considerable. Which is why many teachers find other ways of spending =
their
evenings—and why I am advocating that we should look to support =
the dialogue
with better data systems. If you put the burden on teachers to keep the
dialogue going, nothing will happen 90% of the time. If you create =
automatic
reporting systems, you will allow parents to initiate any dialogue that =
the
data seems to require.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>The Becta video clip that Mike links to says that =
“Schools are
using websites, electronic newsletters and email to keep parents =
informed about
a wide variety of topics” – all of these boil down, I =
suspect, to informal,
teacher-driven forms of communication which are not only time consuming =
but
which are likely to have little or no solid data underpinning. It sounds =
to me
like there’s a lot of back-pedalling going on. =
“Reporting” is being morphed
into “dialogue” and hard data into =
newsletters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>So, just to reiterate my position (in case people take it =
from the
above that I am being too negative), I support dialogue, I support real =
time
reporting and I support what most people have said about the need for =
rich and
varied data. But you can’t put the burden of delivering these =
things on the
poor bloody infantry all the time. You have to provide teachers with the =
right
tools. In this case, that means good data systems with automatic data =
capture.
Data capture is critical. That is what Bill Gates meant when he said =
“content
is king”: you can build the fanciest systems you like but without =
any data they
are a waste of space. And that is why the historic failure to address =
data
interoperability in schools has such serious consequences for the =
real-time
reporting agenda (amongst others).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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