[Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and Education

Gary Clawson gary.clawson@nwlg.org
Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:08:21 -0000
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I'll put aside the technical boundaries that may impact upon the use of
creative commons content as NDRB packages content in a variety of open
formats so makes all of this content usable in any platform supporting open
standards and on an Open Source platform. So there's the competition for
commercial companies. Loads of curriculum focused content on perpetuity
Iicences and shareable across platforms, use it this year next year, use it
on your new platform when you get rid of the old one........

I agree Crispin that this is not a black and white commercial versus
creative commons content "war" but it is about time that the poorer
commercial companies understand that schools have more sophisticated needs
and the simple licencing models created by the disastrous e-learning credits
grant just simply will not do in a world where we need flexible resources in
terms of portability and licencing. I am aware of the work you are doing on
this through SALTIS but also aware that some companies are not helping that
process. Those companies that respond to school's needs should flourish -
those that don't really need to wake up  and smell the coffee and start
talking about licences and products that fit the needs of schools.

Kind Regards



Gary Clawson

Chief Executive

North West Learning Grid

eGovernment National Awards 2006 Winner

eGovernment National Awards 2009 Highly Commended

BETT Awards 2010 Finalist





  -----Original Message-----
  From: Crispin Weston [mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk]
  Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:33 AM
  To: 'theo kuechel'; gary.clawson@nwlg.org
  Cc: advisory@talk.naace.org
  Subject: RE: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and
Education


  @ Theo, I am sure you are right. What I really meant was that there was
merit in the iconic CC approach to licensing. Any mark associated with DRM
would need to have a provenance other CC. I think the place for CC is for
static (and generally lower-value) resources which, as per my discussion
with Roger, cannot really be kept in any kind of box anyway.



  @Gary, Personally, I do not see a clear boundary between content
production tools (often with associated players) and content - it is more of
a continuum, particularly when you look at the kind of adaptable, high-end
content which delivers the pedagogical benefits that Roger mentions.



  I agree with you that subscription-based licensing can present
difficulties to teachers who wish to build durable programmes of study. But
this is a problem (and not necessarily an insoluble one) with a particular
licensing model, not a problem about commercial provision in general. I do
not see how you are going to get significant and well managed investment in
R&D in advanced technology without supporting some kind of commercial model.
At the heart of this debate, I think, lies a synergistic relationship
between commercial and OER provision - not a war between opposing camps.



  Best, Crispin.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

  From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of theo kuechel
  Sent: 19 February 2010 09:35
  To: Crispin Weston
  Cc: Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org
  Subject: Re: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and
Education



  Colleagues

  For info - here is already a CCLearn division within Creative Commons.
http://learn.creativecommons.org/about/

  It is highly unlikely that Creative Commons would support any resources
with technical Boundaries or DRM; call it what you will.  CC covers
permissions and use and does not get involved in technical aspects of
resources.

  Best
  Theo.

  On 19 February 2010 09:13, Crispin Weston
<crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk> wrote:

  Ray,



  I agree the CCE would need discussion and agreement. Plus, I think,
support from some kind of technical boundary (forthcoming reply to Roger) -
so that the mark is a matter of information rather than permission.



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D250140216-19022010>I'll=20
put aside the technical boundaries that may impact upon the use of =
creative=20
commons content as NDRB packages content in a variety of open formats so =
makes=20
all of this content usable in any platform supporting open standards and =
on an=20
Open Source platform. So there's the competition for commercial =
companies. Loads=20
of curriculum focused content on perpetuity Iicences and shareable =
across=20
platforms, use it this year next year, use it on your new platform when =
you get=20
rid of the old one........</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D250140216-19022010></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D250140216-19022010>I=20
agree Crispin that this is not a black and white commercial versus =
creative=20
commons content "war" but it is about time that the poorer commercial =
companies=20
understand that schools have more sophisticated needs and the simple =
licencing=20
models created by the disastrous e-learning credits grant just simply =
will not=20
do in a world where we need flexible resources in terms of portability =
and=20
licencing. I am aware of the work you are doing on this through SALTIS =
but also=20
aware that some companies are not helping that process. Those companies =
that=20
respond to school's needs&nbsp;should flourish - those that don't really =
need to=20
wake up&nbsp; and smell the coffee and start talking about licences and =
products=20
that fit the needs of schools.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993300; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Kind=20
Regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993300; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Gary=20
Clawson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Chief=20
Executive</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">North=20
West Learning Grid</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D1>eGovernment National Awards 2006 =
Winner</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D1>eGovernment National Awards 2009 Highly Commended</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D1>BETT=20
Awards 2010 Finalist</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-size: =
11.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-size: =
11.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Crispin Weston=20
  [mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, =
February=20
  19, 2010 10:33 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'theo kuechel';=20
  gary.clawson@nwlg.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
advisory@talk.naace.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  RE: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and=20
  Education<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">@ Theo, I =
am sure=20
  you are right. What I really meant was that there was merit in the =
iconic CC=20
  approach to licensing. Any mark associated with DRM would need to have =
a=20
  provenance other CC. I think the place for CC is for static (and =
generally=20
  lower-value) resources which, as per my discussion with Roger, cannot =
really=20
  be kept in any kind of box anyway.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">@Gary, =
Personally,=20
  I do not see a clear boundary between content production tools (often =
with=20
  associated players) and content &#8211; it is more of a continuum, =
particularly when=20
  you look at the kind of adaptable, high-end content which delivers the =

  pedagogical benefits that Roger mentions. =
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I agree =
with you=20
  that subscription-based licensing can present difficulties to teachers =
who=20
  wish to build durable programmes of study. But this is a problem (and =
not=20
  necessarily an insoluble one) with a particular licensing model, not a =
problem=20
  about commercial provision in general. I do not see how you are going =
to get=20
  significant and well managed investment in R&amp;D in advanced =
technology=20
  without supporting some kind of commercial model. At the heart of this =
debate,=20
  I think, lies a synergistic relationship between commercial and OER =
provision=20
  &#8211; not a war between opposing camps.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Best,=20
  Crispin.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: blue =
1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>=20
  [mailto:<st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>] <B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>theo =
kuechel<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 19 February 2010 =
09:35<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Crispin Weston<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Ray Tolley;=20
  advisory@talk.naace.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Advisory] Re: =
[Secondary]=20
  <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
  w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> Consultation on =
Copyright and=20
  Education</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Colleagues<BR><BR>For info - =
here is=20
  already a CCLearn division within Creative Commons. <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://learn.creativecommons.org/about/">http://learn.creativecom=
mons.org/about/</A><BR><BR>It=20
  is highly unlikely that Creative Commons would support any resources =
with=20
  technical Boundaries or DRM; call it what you will.&nbsp; CC covers=20
  permissions and use and does not get involved in technical aspects of=20
  resources.<BR><BR>Best<BR>Theo. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 19 February 2010 09:13, Crispin Weston =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk"=20
  target=3D_blank>crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</A>&gt;=20
  wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word" vlink=3D"blue" link=3D"blue">
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">Ray,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: =
Verdana">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I agree =
the CCE=20
  would need discussion and agreement. Plus, I think, support from some =
kind of=20
  technical boundary (forthcoming reply to Roger) &#8211; so that the =
mark is a matter=20
  of information rather than permission.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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