[Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and Education
Crispin Weston
crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk
Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:32:04 -0000
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Hi Gary,
Thanks for this. I couldn't agree more. What we are trying to do in SALTIS
is to create the interoperability infrastructure for a free market which,
exactly as you want, will ultimately put schools in the driving seat. It
will also help achieve the synergies between commercial and OER that we both
want to see.
I take your point about process. I think we are reaching a watershed within
the Becta/ISB content packaging profile, after which the project will come
out of its cloister and be driven forwards very much more by the willing
implementers across industry. I shall be posting something on this on the
SALTIS lists next week, prior to our next meeting in Milton Keynes on 12th
March. This meeting will be very important for companies who want to get
involved and create interoperability solutions which suit their products.
Anyone who would like to get involved in the project, do drop me an email
or, if you are a SALTIS member, register for the meeting at
http://www.saltis.org/next_meeting.html. Contrary to what it says on the
website, I am anticipating that I will be able avoid charging any attendance
fees.
Again, I completely agree with you that the companies that thrive will be
those that engage with the process, implement open interoperability
standards and ensure that their technology plays in an integrated
environment.
Best, Crispin.
_____
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of Gary Clawson
Sent: 19 February 2010 17:08
To: advisory@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and
Education
I'll put aside the technical boundaries that may impact upon the use of
creative commons content as NDRB packages content in a variety of open
formats so makes all of this content usable in any platform supporting open
standards and on an Open Source platform. So there's the competition for
commercial companies. Loads of curriculum focused content on perpetuity
Iicences and shareable across platforms, use it this year next year, use it
on your new platform when you get rid of the old one........
I agree Crispin that this is not a black and white commercial versus
creative commons content "war" but it is about time that the poorer
commercial companies understand that schools have more sophisticated needs
and the simple licencing models created by the disastrous e-learning credits
grant just simply will not do in a world where we need flexible resources in
terms of portability and licencing. I am aware of the work you are doing on
this through SALTIS but also aware that some companies are not helping that
process. Those companies that respond to school's needs should flourish -
those that don't really need to wake up and smell the coffee and start
talking about licences and products that fit the needs of schools.
Kind Regards
Gary Clawson
Chief Executive
North West Learning Grid
eGovernment National Awards 2006 Winner
eGovernment National Awards 2009 Highly Commended
BETT Awards 2010 Finalist
-----Original Message-----
From: Crispin Weston [mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:33 AM
To: 'theo kuechel'; gary.clawson@nwlg.org
Cc: advisory@talk.naace.org
Subject: RE: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and
Education
@ Theo, I am sure you are right. What I really meant was that there was
merit in the iconic CC approach to licensing. Any mark associated with DRM
would need to have a provenance other CC. I think the place for CC is for
static (and generally lower-value) resources which, as per my discussion
with Roger, cannot really be kept in any kind of box anyway.
@Gary, Personally, I do not see a clear boundary between content production
tools (often with associated players) and content - it is more of a
continuum, particularly when you look at the kind of adaptable, high-end
content which delivers the pedagogical benefits that Roger mentions.
I agree with you that subscription-based licensing can present difficulties
to teachers who wish to build durable programmes of study. But this is a
problem (and not necessarily an insoluble one) with a particular licensing
model, not a problem about commercial provision in general. I do not see how
you are going to get significant and well managed investment in R&D in
advanced technology without supporting some kind of commercial model. At the
heart of this debate, I think, lies a synergistic relationship between
commercial and OER provision - not a war between opposing camps.
Best, Crispin.
_____
From: advisory-admin@talk.naace.org [mailto:advisory-admin@talk.naace.org]
On Behalf Of theo kuechel
Sent: 19 February 2010 09:35
To: Crispin Weston
Cc: Ray Tolley; advisory@talk.naace.org
Subject: Re: [Advisory] Re: [Secondary] UK Consultation on Copyright and
Education
Colleagues
For info - here is already a CCLearn division within Creative Commons.
http://learn.creativecommons.org/about/
It is highly unlikely that Creative Commons would support any resources with
technical Boundaries or DRM; call it what you will. CC covers permissions
and use and does not get involved in technical aspects of resources.
Best
Theo.
On 19 February 2010 09:13, Crispin Weston
<crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk> wrote:
Ray,
I agree the CCE would need discussion and agreement. Plus, I think, support
from some kind of technical boundary (forthcoming reply to Roger) - so that
the mark is a matter of information rather than permission.
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Hi =
Gary,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Thanks for this. I couldn’t =
agree
more. What we are trying to do in SALTIS is to create the =
interoperability
infrastructure for a free market which, exactly as you want, will =
ultimately
put schools in the driving seat. It will also help achieve the synergies
between commercial and OER that we both want to =
see.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>I take your point about process. =
I think
we are reaching a watershed within the Becta/ISB content packaging =
profile, after
which the project will come out of its cloister and be driven forwards =
very
much more by the willing implementers across industry. I shall be =
posting
something on this on the SALTIS lists next week, prior to our next =
meeting in <st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Milton Keynes</st1:place> on 12<sup>th</sup> March. This =
meeting will
be very important for companies who want to get involved and create
interoperability solutions which suit their =
products.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Anyone who would like to get =
involved in
the project, do drop me an email or, if you are a SALTIS member, =
register for
the meeting at <a =
href=3D"http://www.saltis.org/next_meeting.html">http://www.saltis.org/ne=
xt_meeting.html</a>.
Contrary to what it says on the website, I am anticipating that I will =
be able avoid
charging any attendance fees.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Again, I completely agree with =
you that
the companies that thrive will be those that engage with the process, =
implement
open interoperability standards and ensure that their technology plays =
in an
integrated environment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Best, =
Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gary =
Clawson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 19 February 2010 =
17:08<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
advisory@talk.naace.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Advisory] =
Re:
[Secondary] <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Consultation on Copyright and Education</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'll put aside the technical =
boundaries
that may impact upon the use of creative commons content as NDRB =
packages
content in a variety of open formats so makes all of this content usable =
in any
platform supporting open standards and on an Open Source platform. So =
there's
the competition for commercial companies. Loads of curriculum focused =
content
on perpetuity Iicences and shareable across platforms, use it this year =
next
year, use it on your new platform when you get rid of the old =
one........</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I agree Crispin that this is not a =
black
and white commercial versus creative commons content "war" but =
it is
about time that the poorer commercial companies understand that schools =
have
more sophisticated needs and the simple licencing models created by the
disastrous e-learning credits grant just simply will not do in a world =
where we
need flexible resources in terms of portability and licencing. I am =
aware of
the work you are doing on this through SALTIS but also aware that some
companies are not helping that process. Those companies that respond to
school's needs should flourish - those that don't really need to =
wake
up and smell the coffee and start talking about licences and =
products
that fit the needs of schools.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#993300" face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:#993300'>Kind Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#993300" face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:#993300'>Gary Clawson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D1
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Chief =
Executive</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><st1:State =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D1 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma'>North West</span></font></st1:place></st1:State><font size=3D1
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Learning Grid</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D1
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>eGovernment National
Awards 2006 Winner</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D1
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>eGovernment National
Awards 2009 Highly Commended</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D1
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>BETT =
Awards 2010
Finalist</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:red'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:red'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Crispin Weston
[mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February =
19, 2010
10:33 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'theo kuechel'; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">gary.clawson@nwlg.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> =
advisory@talk.naace.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Advisory] =
Re:
[Secondary] <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Consultation on Copyright and Education</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>@ Theo, I am sure you are right. =
What I
really meant was that there was merit in the iconic CC approach to =
licensing.
Any mark associated with DRM would need to have a provenance other CC. I =
think
the place for CC is for static (and generally lower-value) resources =
which, as
per my discussion with Roger, cannot really be kept in any kind of box =
anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>@Gary, Personally, I do not see a =
clear
boundary between content production tools (often with associated =
players) and
content – it is more of a continuum, particularly when you look at =
the
kind of adaptable, high-end content which delivers the pedagogical =
benefits
that Roger mentions. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>I agree with you that =
subscription-based
licensing can present difficulties to teachers who wish to build durable
programmes of study. But this is a problem (and not necessarily an =
insoluble
one) with a particular licensing model, not a problem about commercial
provision in general. I do not see how you are going to get significant =
and
well managed investment in R&D in advanced technology without =
supporting
some kind of commercial model. At the heart of this debate, I think, =
lies a
synergistic relationship between commercial and OER provision – =
not a war
between opposing camps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Best, =
Crispin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p=
>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">advisory-admin@talk.naace.org</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>theo =
kuechel<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 19 February 2010 =
09:35<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Crispin Weston<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ray Tolley;
advisory@talk.naace.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Advisory] =
Re:
[Secondary] <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:country-region =
w:st=3D"on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place>
Consultation on Copyright and Education</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Colleagues<br>
<br>
For info - here is already a CCLearn division within Creative Commons. =
<a
href=3D"http://learn.creativecommons.org/about/">http://learn.creativecom=
mons.org/about/</a><br>
<br>
It is highly unlikely that Creative Commons would support any resources =
with
technical Boundaries or DRM; call it what you will. CC covers =
permissions
and use and does not get involved in technical aspects of resources.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Theo. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>On 19 February 2010 09:13, Crispin Weston <<a
href=3D"mailto:crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">crispin.weston@alphalearning.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D'WORD-WRAP: break-word' vlink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>Ray,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'>I agree the CCE would need discussion and agreement. Plus, I =
think,
support from some kind of technical boundary (forthcoming reply to =
Roger)
– so that the mark is a matter of information rather than =
permission.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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